UK axes support for Mediterranean migrant rescue operation
Discussion
IanH755 said:
The really sad thing is that most of the NGO's and their supporters believe they're doing something good despite being a chain in human smuggling and modern slavery. I really wonder how generations 50+ years from now will look back at these efforts, will they be seen as good or bad?
Much like the ducking stool is IMO.Same things goes for well intentioned, poorly thought through stuff like Live Aid
It's nice to see charitable donations working so hard to assist the murdering, exploiting gangsters who vampire off the poor and the ignorant. I'd describe it as misguided but the charities have to know exactly what they're doing, don't they? They can't be stupid enough to not recognise that they're making themselves part of the problem? The boats acquired by the smugglers are shonkier as the rescuers are going closer to Libyan territorial water, the deathtrap inflatable rafts made of ever flimsier material, because the smugglers can see that they can make even more money and enough desperate people will be saved from drowning and be taken to europe to then phone their friends and family back home and spread the word that the route still works despite the predations of the sea and extorting racketeers. Those that drown because of the boats that can't even make it the 12 miles out to international waters don't tell tales and can't tell those at home it's a bum deal.
Breadvan72 said:
Suppose all that to be true. Should civilised people who are not gangsters stand by and do nothing while people drown, because doing something might encourage gangsters to do gangsterism?
Unpalatable as it might be, there is an argument in favour of not helping them in the hope of not exacerbating the problem.In effect, 1 drowns today rather than 10 drowning tomorrow.
Breadvan72 said:
Suppose all that to be true. Should civilised people who are not gangsters stand by and do nothing while people drown, because doing something might encourage gangsters to do gangsterism?
I wouldn't let them drown, I'd return them to the closest landmass/'home'. That is assuming it truly is a humanitarian mission to stop them drowning rather than something else disguising itself behind that worthy intent?
Cancelling the current taxi service would also help to prevent people drowning as they might not actually put themselves at risk in the first place.
The idea of a conspiracy by NGOs to flood Europe with migrants is about as bonkers as the notion of a conspiracy by scientists to stage a huge hoax about the climate, but this is PH, so almost anything goes. It is pretty impressive that a car (sorry, white Audi) website can out-loon David Icke, 911 truthers, Obama birthers , and "it's aliens" websites. Yay PH!
Rovinghawk said:
Breadvan72 said:
The idea of a conspiracy by NGOs to flood Europe with migrants is about as bonkers as ...................
How about the idea of a bunch of people with good intentions causing problems for others? More reasonable?Breadvan72 said:
Suppose all that to be true. Should civilised people who are not gangsters stand by and do nothing while people drown, because doing something might encourage gangsters to do gangsterism?
No we should not stand by while they drown, but conveying them straight to europe is exacerbating the situation and stuffing the pockets of criminals with blood-soaked money. At least part of the answer is working with the Libyans to stop the boats leaving the beach in the first instance, just as In africa steps to reduce the flow of refugees are far from straightforward as states like Eritrea have repressive dictators for life or effective one party states and more importantly there's little economic prospects for the young; perhaps the chinese have the right idea, stay as much as possible out of the politics and invest in infrastructure and trade, the economic uplift provided may do more than any aid programme for the lives of locals.
Charities saving refugees in the Mediterranean are ‘colluding’ with smugglers, Italian prosecutor claims.
theindependant said:
An Italian prosecutor has said that he has evidence that charities helping refugees and migrants cross the Mediterranean Sea to Europe safely are “colluding” with people smugglers.
Speaking to Italy’s La Stampa, Sicily-based Carmelo Zuccaro told the paper: “We have evidence that there are direct contacts between certain NGOs and people traffickers in Libya.”
Charities were making telephone calls to Libya, helping to guide smugglers’ ships in Libyan as well as international waters and advising them to turn off transponders to avoid detection, he added.
Speaking to Italy’s La Stampa, Sicily-based Carmelo Zuccaro told the paper: “We have evidence that there are direct contacts between certain NGOs and people traffickers in Libya.”
Charities were making telephone calls to Libya, helping to guide smugglers’ ships in Libyan as well as international waters and advising them to turn off transponders to avoid detection, he added.
The Chinese model is not, I suggest, a very good long term answer. China is ruled by a man in a slick suit, who presents as a plausible statesman, but he's a dictator who leads the World league table in executions per year (although if you measure executions per head of population, the prize might go to Iran, IIRC - I haven't checked lately).
And the delicious irony is that the rescue vessel will pick those people up and most likely take them back to where they came from.
I don't know how much people are paying people smugglers over your way but at the height of the boats into Australia, people were paying tens of thousands in USD's per person to get onto a leaky old hulk purchased from some shonky fisherman for next to nothing. Boats will have had dozens of people onboard. Smugglers were making millions out of the business. For the money they'd spent to get to Australia, the people could have pretty much chartered an airplane instead and flown it.
Keep the 'business' bountiful and the smugglers will continue it. Make it not worth their while and they won't. It's pretty simple.
I don't know how much people are paying people smugglers over your way but at the height of the boats into Australia, people were paying tens of thousands in USD's per person to get onto a leaky old hulk purchased from some shonky fisherman for next to nothing. Boats will have had dozens of people onboard. Smugglers were making millions out of the business. For the money they'd spent to get to Australia, the people could have pretty much chartered an airplane instead and flown it.
Keep the 'business' bountiful and the smugglers will continue it. Make it not worth their while and they won't. It's pretty simple.
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