UK axes support for Mediterranean migrant rescue operation

[Du1point8]

So let me get this right...

We have 3 small areas out in the mediterranean.

Italy is doing most of the work with other EU countries supplying 3 patrol vessels and a few fixed wing aircraft.

Out of all the countries in the EU, people are coming down to criticise the UK?

Why not criticise one of the EU countries that don't even help? After all we are in this together are we not?

Would much rather have the UK vessels back in the channel stopping anyone coming over from France, plus have some UK army squads in Calais, give Gibraltar a few fixed wing aircraft or drones and there we are helping again with search and rescue.

Whats the issue here? the fact we don't want to help anymore, or should it be that there are other countries that are not doing anything at the moment to help out?

[Bluebarge]

JagLover said:

Bluebarge said:

No smiley required. A life is a life. Rescuing those in peril at sea has always been a moral obligation of mariners and, ever since the Zong massacre, that has also applied to black people.

And criminals?!!! criminals?!!! are you suggesting that the men, women and children drowning in the Med are committing some crime???. What an excellent attempt at dehumanizing your fellow Man so that you can justify letting them die.

Bravo, you must feel very proud of yourself

They have made a decision to set out into the Mediterranean in unsafe boats and we are under no obligation to rescue them from the consequences of that decision. I don't think anyone on this thread wants them to die and in fact an interdiction exercise that towed them back to North Africa would help reduce deaths.

This is PH. This is not the place for sensible posts.

FWIW, I agree some other solution is required. Open borders are not the answer, letting them drown is not the answer. Putting some pressure on N.African countries to stop them leaving would seem an option, maybe a maritime patrol just outside the N.African territorial waters to send them back while they're not too far from shore, but I don't think we can bleat about migrants in Calais and then refuse to assist the Maltese and Italians with the cost of keeping these people out. Either we re-erect every national border in the EU and put up with massive cost and PITA of every vehicle having to be stopped and checked at the border post, or (more sensibly) we make a collective contribution to dealing with the problem. So, IMHO, HMG should be funding efforts to deal with the problem, but maybe a new strategy needs to be agreed.

[JagLover]

Bluebarge said:

but I don't think we can bleat about migrants in Calais and then refuse to assist the Maltese and Italians with the cost of keeping these people out. .

The issue is that the current set-up is not preventing migration but encouraging it.

I would agree the UK should contribute to a sensible process of securing the borders.

[simoid]

Bluebarge said:

simoid said:

Bluebarge said:

So 3 white folks are more important to you than 2500 black ones? Nice sense of priorities you have there.

Do you need a smiley in there, or are you being serious?

I think it's the fact that 3 innocent UK people are more important to Brits than criminals a couple of thousand miles away...?

No smiley required. A life is a life. Rescuing those in peril at sea has always been a moral obligation of mariners and, ever since the Zong massacre, that has also applied to black people.

And criminals?!!! criminals?!!! are you suggesting that the men, women and children drowning in the Med are committing some crime???. What an excellent attempt at dehumanizing your fellow Man so that you can justify letting them die.

Bravo, you must feel very proud of yourself

You seriously played the race card here? Oh my. I was sure you were at the wind up.

Are they not criminals - I was under the impression they're attempting to illegally enter a country?

I've not been justifying anything, incidentally. I've not even expressed a personal opinion.

[Jimbeaux]

Du1point8 said:

So let me get this right...

We have 3 small areas out in the mediterranean.

Italy is doing most of the work with other EU countries supplying 3 patrol vessels and a few fixed wing aircraft.

Out of all the countries in the EU, people are coming down to criticise the UK?

Why not criticise one of the EU countries that don't even help? After all we are in this together are we not?

Would much rather have the UK vessels back in the channel stopping anyone coming over from France, plus have some UK army squads in Calais, give Gibraltar a few fixed wing aircraft or drones and there we are helping again with search and rescue.

Whats the issue here? the fact we don't want to help anymore, or should it be that there are other countries that are not doing anything at the moment to help out?

I think the gripe was that as the UK has the largest Navy of the Euro-Allies, it should do more. I don't really agree but there it is.

[Digga]

simoid said:

Are they not criminals - I was under the impression they're attempting to illegally enter a country?

TBC, not necessarily. There are a lot of genuine refugees, but they have no means of entry, application for asylum, other than actually pitching up in the EU.

That they then go on to try to reach the UK is a whole other kettle of st, but the fact is some do have genuine rights of asylum, even if others are merely criminals and worse.

[Du1point8]

Jimbeaux said:

Du1point8 said:

So let me get this right...

We have 3 small areas out in the mediterranean.

Italy is doing most of the work with other EU countries supplying 3 patrol vessels and a few fixed wing aircraft.

Out of all the countries in the EU, people are coming down to criticise the UK?

Why not criticise one of the EU countries that don't even help? After all we are in this together are we not?

Would much rather have the UK vessels back in the channel stopping anyone coming over from France, plus have some UK army squads in Calais, give Gibraltar a few fixed wing aircraft or drones and there we are helping again with search and rescue.

Whats the issue here? the fact we don't want to help anymore, or should it be that there are other countries that are not doing anything at the moment to help out?

I think the gripe was that as the UK has the largest Navy of the Euro-Allies, it should do more. I don't really agree but there it is.

Does the UK get a rebate from those that don't help out in the form of running costs of vessels?

Bet it doesn't even though it will be circa £30 million a ship per year for the destroyers/frigates.

[Jimbeaux]

Du1point8 said:

Jimbeaux said:

Du1point8 said:

So let me get this right...

We have 3 small areas out in the mediterranean.

Italy is doing most of the work with other EU countries supplying 3 patrol vessels and a few fixed wing aircraft.

Out of all the countries in the EU, people are coming down to criticise the UK?

Why not criticise one of the EU countries that don't even help? After all we are in this together are we not?

Would much rather have the UK vessels back in the channel stopping anyone coming over from France, plus have some UK army squads in Calais, give Gibraltar a few fixed wing aircraft or drones and there we are helping again with search and rescue.

Whats the issue here? the fact we don't want to help anymore, or should it be that there are other countries that are not doing anything at the moment to help out?

I think the gripe was that as the UK has the largest Navy of the Euro-Allies, it should do more. I don't really agree but there it is.

Does the UK get a rebate from those that don't help out in the form of running costs of vessels?

Bet it doesn't even though it will be circa £30 million a ship per year for the destroyers/frigates.

Understood: I suppose those officials making those comments either see it differently or are simply trying to shame you into action. It's like the US, everyone says stay away and mind your business until they need help, then it's "what took you so long to get here"?

[irocfan]

Jimbeaux said:

Understood: I suppose those officials making those comments either see it differently or are simply trying to shame you into action. It's like the US, everyone says stay away and mind your business until they need help, then it's "what took you so long to get here"?

fk yes!!!! QFT

[hidetheelephants]

simoid said:

Bluebarge said:

simoid said:

Bluebarge said:

So 3 white folks are more important to you than 2500 black ones? Nice sense of priorities you have there.

Do you need a smiley in there, or are you being serious?

I think it's the fact that 3 innocent UK people are more important to Brits than criminals a couple of thousand miles away...?

No smiley required. A life is a life. Rescuing those in peril at sea has always been a moral obligation of mariners and, ever since the Zong massacre, that has also applied to black people.

And criminals?!!! criminals?!!! are you suggesting that the men, women and children drowning in the Med are committing some crime???. What an excellent attempt at dehumanizing your fellow Man so that you can justify letting them die.

Bravo, you must feel very proud of yourself

You seriously played the race card here? Oh my. I was sure you were at the wind up.

Are they not criminals - I was under the impression they're attempting to illegally enter a country?

I've not been justifying anything, incidentally. I've not even expressed a personal opinion.

The criminality is surely with the scumbags who relieve desparate people of whatever money they have and send them out in death traps?

Jimbeaux said:

I think the gripe was that as the UK has the largest Navy of the Euro-Allies, it should do more. I don't really agree but there it is.

The RN probably has the worst ratio of fixed naval obligations viz-a-viz NATO, multiple bilateral treaties etc. to available hulls in the EU; none of these obligations have gone away, but the navy has shrunk in the wash somewhat in the last decade.

[Jimbeaux]

irocfan said:

Jimbeaux said:

Understood: I suppose those officials making those comments either see it differently or are simply trying to shame you into action. It's like the US, everyone says stay away and mind your business until they need help, then it's "what took you so long to get here"?

fk yes!!!! QFT

[Esseesse]

Peter Hitchens on Mediterranean migrants (and other things): http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2014/11/why...

[slow_poke]

Bluebarge said:

No smiley required. A life is a life. Rescuing those in peril at sea has always been a moral obligation of mariners and, ever since the Zong massacre, that has also applied to black people.

And criminals?!!! criminals?!!! are you suggesting that the men, women and children drowning in the Med are committing some crime???. What an excellent attempt at dehumanizing your fellow Man so that you can justify letting them die.

Well said. Shame on those who would abandon those in peril on the seas, for whatever reason.

[Mermaid]

slow_poke said:

Bluebarge said:

No smiley required. A life is a life. Rescuing those in peril at sea has always been a moral obligation of mariners and, ever since the Zong massacre, that has also applied to black people.

And criminals?!!! criminals?!!! are you suggesting that the men, women and children drowning in the Med are committing some crime???. What an excellent attempt at dehumanizing your fellow Man so that you can justify letting them die.

Well said. Shame on those who would abandon those in peril on the seas, for whatever reason.

So if a million, or ten million, illegal economic migrants came across every year by this route.....

[slow_poke]

Mermaid said:

slow_poke said:

Bluebarge said:

No smiley required. A life is a life. Rescuing those in peril at sea has always been a moral obligation of mariners and, ever since the Zong massacre, that has also applied to black people.

And criminals?!!! criminals?!!! are you suggesting that the men, women and children drowning in the Med are committing some crime???. What an excellent attempt at dehumanizing your fellow Man so that you can justify letting them die.

Well said. Shame on those who would abandon those in peril on the seas, for whatever reason.

So if a million, or ten million, illegal economic migrants came across every year by this route.....

So what? One person or ten million persons, fix the problem elsewhere, not by abandoning them to the sea.

[Mermaid]

slow_poke said:

So what? One person or ten million persons, fix the problem elsewhere, not by abandoning them to the sea.

Now that "Gaddafi" is gone, not working so well. Suggestions of how we fix it? Reckless endangerment should be dissuaded.

[slow_poke]

Mermaid said:

slow_poke said:

So what? One person or ten million persons, fix the problem elsewhere, not by abandoning them to the sea.

Now that "Gaddafi" is gone, not working so well. Suggestions of how we fix it? Reckless endangerment should be dissuaded.

Fix in such a way that does not include steaming away from drowning men, women and children as a policy measure. What on earth are we becoming, that we could even contemplate seriously such an action?

[eldar]

slow_poke said:

Fix in such a way that does not include steaming away from drowning men, women and children as a policy measure. What on earth are we becoming, that we could even contemplate seriously such an action?

How might that be achieved? I really can't see a way of effective prevention, given the realitity of where these people are coming from and their intended destinations.

[Mermaid]

eldar said:

How might that be achieved? I really can't see a way of effective prevention, given the realitity of where these people are coming from and their intended destinations.

Pay the smugglers enough money to ensure no illegal vessels depart those shores.

[irocfan]

Mermaid said:

eldar said:

How might that be achieved? I really can't see a way of effective prevention, given the realitity of where these people are coming from and their intended destinations.

Pay the smugglers enough money to ensure no illegal vessels depart those shores.

I hope that you're joking with this one and I'm due a parrot