Rich Socialists - do as I say, not as I do

[ukwill]

unrepentant said:

Rubbish. All Benn did was make sensible practical and completely legal arrangements for his family. It's allowable and HMRC EXPECT you to do it.

Oh ok. So if you're all for sensible practical and completely legal tax arrangements, you must have no issue with companies also applying the exact same logic?

Benn was one of numerous lefties who were (and remain) vociferous in there demand that the wealthiest should be forced to pay the most. And yet seemingly, Benn (one of many) went to great lengths to make sure that he mitigated his own tax position, in order for his own family to benefit.

I'd have no issue with that, if he were an advocate of that position. Trouble is, he most definitely wasn't.

[turbobloke]

ukwill said:

unrepentant said:

Rubbish. All Benn did was make sensible practical and completely legal arrangements for his family. It's allowable and HMRC EXPECT you to do it.

Oh ok. So if you're all for sensible practical and completely legal tax arrangements, you must have no issue with companies also applying the exact same logic?

Benn was one of numerous lefties who were (and remain) vociferous in there demand that the wealthiest should be forced to pay the most. And yet seemingly, Benn (one of many) went to great lengths to make sure that he mitigated his own tax position, in order for his own family to benefit.

I'd have no issue with that, if he were an advocate of that position. Trouble is, he most definitely wasn't.

Likewise.

After all, what FB are doing is no more than making sensible practical and completely legal tax arrangements.

With Benn in the news as a hypocrite over tax avoidance he joins (so to speak) Margaret Hodge in the 'do as I say, not as I do' club of two-faced socialists.

[TTwiggy]

LucreLout said:

TTwiggy said:

Presumably you have evidence that Nellist abused his expenses then? As otherwise you're straying into areas of slander. Also, he was deselected in 1991, so I doubt his pension is worth much in the way of gold.

I hope you're not a lawyer or you'll bankrupt your clients.
I made no claim he fraudulently claimed expenses, only that he claimed them. Unequal with the working man you see.
He was deselected then parachuted into a nice lucrative and secure council job. Hardly out earning a crust with the working man is it?

He was deselected due to his stance on his pay by the way - it upset the trough, so to speak.

As detailed above, he claimed regular expenses to cover his outgoings. Like any working man.

[LucreLout]

edh said:

you said

"Show me a socialist that doesn't avoid tax. Show me a socialist that declines any compensation above the national average. Show me a socialist that pays anymore tax than the least they can get away with. They don't exist. They never did."

and I did.

You did nothing of the sort. He claimed expenses ontop of pay and claimed two final salary pensions of the kind unavailable to working people. You've shown nothing.

edh said:

Mind you, what a bd, claiming expenses to travel and live in London to represent his constituents! these socialists... btw I'm a "working man", & when I travel to do work for my clients, I bill them for travel and accommodation expenses, as appears quite normal in many lines of business..

is it just socialist politicians who are "troughers", or is it all of them? Don't tell me you're a fan of the saintly Nige..

I can't claim expenses to travel to work, which is all he was doing. He's not a businessman you see, he's an employee, so that definitely is troughing. Ask any poor bd permie schlepping between the home counties and canary wharf and they'll say the same.

Not a fan of any MP. Even dead ones. Though Maggies was probably the last one that believed in what she was doing and believed it was right fir the country, rather than their party. And I hated her for it at the time. Northerner you see, we're born and raised to hate her.

[LucreLout]

crankedup said:

Well I didn't accuse you of being an ex Union man, just as well perhaps. Still curious to understand where your apparent hatred of Socialists (none left TBH in the U.K.)has arisen from.

Most of you are probably too young to have had to cross a picket line, with all the violence and hatred it entails. That I had no choice in the matter (for reasons I won't expand upon) didn't come into it.
That I've watched socialists destroy every successful industry we ever had probably features as a reason.
That the hypocrisy of them all makes me sick sure is a reason (see bono, Blair, brand et al).
That their lack of even a basic economic understanding causes so much pain to the people they claim to represent is a reason.
That they lie to working men, with sincerity, is a reason. Labour MPs of the last government weren't fit to lick the st off my old shifts boots. That's a reason.

I've got a lot of reasons to hate socialists I'm afraid. All based on experience, their behaviour, and their near universal lack of honour.

I hope that doesn't offend you. It wasn't intended to, but you did ask!


ETA: I'm no fan of the current lot either by the way... But at least they get basic economics and that spares those at the bottom of the stack a lot of pain.
I'd actually have voted for Alex Salmond given the chance as I figure he was the best politician of his era, even if he was dishonest over the referendum... They all were.

Edited by LucreLout on Thursday 30th October 17:13

[Rude-boy]

Gift of 1/2 share of property between the children on death of first parent was quite common until 2007 as said.

What few people talk about is what happens when, after first death, one of the children divorces from their spouse and then that share of mummy and daddy's house forms part of the matrimonial pot for division...

As tax avoidance goes it's really, really small beer and not even walking the line but well inside the rules.

I was no Benn fan, his wife didn't think much of his politics either FWIW, but frankly it's a no brainer.

[nightflight]

Inheritance tax is optional. With proper planning, nobody needs to pay anything. My kids certainly won't be paying any. I've paid enough while I've been on the planet, they won't get me when I've gone.

[davepoth]

edh said:

Here's one that immediately springs to mind..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warw...

Hope the sock is tasty..

He was still taking home more than the average annual wage; I don't think he needed it all. My socks remain uneaten.

[DocJock]

LucreLout said:

edh said:

you said

"Show me a socialist that doesn't avoid tax. Show me a socialist that declines any compensation above the national average. Show me a socialist that pays anymore tax than the least they can get away with. They don't exist. They never did."

and I did.

You did nothing of the sort. He claimed expenses ontop of pay and claimed two final salary pensions of the kind unavailable to working people. You've shown nothing.

edh said:

Mind you, what a bd, claiming expenses to travel and live in London to represent his constituents! these socialists... btw I'm a "working man", & when I travel to do work for my clients, I bill them for travel and accommodation expenses, as appears quite normal in many lines of business..

is it just socialist politicians who are "troughers", or is it all of them? Don't tell me you're a fan of the saintly Nige..

I can't claim expenses to travel to work, which is all he was doing. He's not a businessman you see, he's an employee, so that definitely is troughing. Ask any poor bd permie schlepping between the home counties and canary wharf and they'll say the same.

Not a fan of any MP. Even dead ones. Though Maggies was probably the last one that believed in what she was doing and believed it was right fir the country, rather than their party. And I hated her for it at the time. Northerner you see, we're born and raised to hate her.

Sorry to burst your bubble of ignorance, but he was travelling between two places of work. His constituency and Parliament, so he wasn't 'travelling to work' in the way you imply.

Any working person doing the same will claim this as an expense.

[Sir Humphrey]

crankedup said:

By 'stolon' I take it you mean taxed.? Even Socialists are taxed.

OK, extorted might be a better word. But still taken against my will and without my permission.

[edh]

davepoth said:

edh said:

Here's one that immediately springs to mind..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warw...

Hope the sock is tasty..

He was still taking home more than the average annual wage; I don't think he needed it all. My socks remain uneaten.

Pathetic

would you like your sock fried or boiled?

[youngsyr]

If anyone wants to jump in on the nightfall, I'm doing it now.

Just jump straight into my fireteam, or if you're not already a friend add me. PSN: Youngsyr

[LucreLout]

DocJock said:

Sorry to burst your bubble of ignorance, but he was travelling between two places of work. His constituency and Parliament, so he wasn't 'travelling to work' in the way you imply.

Any working person doing the same will claim this as an expense.

His constituency is where he lives. We call that going home. Westminster is where he worked. We call that going to work.
I'm not even looking to see of he bagged himself a free second house as I'd probably puke on the sickening hypocrisy and lionising which is already making me queasy.
Less of a trougher than he could have been is the very best nellist has allowed you to demonstrate. I can counter that with blairs untaxed 100 million pound fortune. From just one year. Yet we get to fund his security. And pension.

[wolves_wanderer]

LucreLout said:

DocJock said:

Sorry to burst your bubble of ignorance, but he was travelling between two places of work. His constituency and Parliament, so he wasn't 'travelling to work' in the way you imply.

Any working person doing the same will claim this as an expense.

His constituency is where he lives. We call that going home. Westminster is where he worked. We call that going to work.

I have an office near where I live. I call that going to work. I also work in London, I get expenses when I do that

LucreLout said:

I can counter that with blairs untaxed 100 million pound fortune. From just one year. Yet we get to fund his security. And pension.

WTF that demonstrates apart from a good bit of PH envy I don't know.

[turbobloke]

wolves_wanderer said:

LucreLout said:

I can counter that with blairs untaxed 100 million pound fortune. From just one year. Yet we get to fund his security. And pension.

WTF that demonstrates apart from a good bit of PH envy I don't know.

It demonstrates recognition of a prime example of socialist hypocrisy.

Bliar should remember that property is theft and he should keep only what he needs, all those mansions and £millions and so little tax paid must be a huge burden to him

If somebody succeeds and gains wealth through their own skills, effort and considered risk-taking, everyone but the thinly populated PH socialist contingency will say 'well done'. When a snake oil salesman of a politician gets rich off the back of wrecking the country and his Party bashes the rich with boring regularity, only the PH socialist contingency would think this is something to envy.

[wolves_wanderer]

turbobloke said:

wolves_wanderer said:

LucreLout said:

I can counter that with blairs untaxed 100 million pound fortune. From just one year. Yet we get to fund his security. And pension.

WTF that demonstrates apart from a good bit of PH envy I don't know.

It demonstrates recognition of a prime example of socialist hypocrisy.

Bliar should remember that property is theft and he should keep only what he needs, all those mansions and £millions and so little tax paid must be a huge burden to him

If somebody succeeds and gains wealth through their own skills, effort and considered risk-taking, everyone but the thinly populated PH socialist contingency will say 'well done'. When a snake oil salesman of a politician gets rich off the back of wrecking the country and his Party bashes the rich with boring regularity, only the PH socialist contingency would think this is something to envy.

Blair was a socialist was he?! It appears only the halfwits who voted for him and you believe that...

[Countdown]

wolves_wanderer said:

Blair was a socialist was he?! It appears only the halfwits who voted for him and you believe that...

Anybody who isn't UKIP is a PH Socialist

[wolves_wanderer]

Countdown said:

wolves_wanderer said:

Blair was a socialist was he?! It appears only the halfwits who voted for him and you believe that...

Anybody who isn't UKIP is a PH Socialist

Never a truer word spoken

[turbobloke]

wolves_wanderer said:

Countdown said:

wolves_wanderer said:

Blair was a socialist was he?! It appears only the halfwits who voted for him and you believe that...

Anybody who isn't UKIP is a PH Socialist

Never a truer word spoken

I'm not in UKIP and have never voted UKIP. I'm not a socialist - you're wrong (again).

100+ stealth taxes under Bliar's lot. "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good" (Billary Clinton) that's socialism.

Getting on for a million public sector jobs paid for on the never never, including thousands of nonjobs all created under Bliar's lot together with more than 3,500 offences and an 'army of interferers' showing Big Government and control freakery at work, that's socialism.

If it waddles to the left and quacks the red flag at its conferences and pockets millions after wrecking a national economy (again) it's a hypocritical socialist duck.

Good to see that PH socialists are afraid of owning the term, pretending it doesn't exist is like pretending Bliar isn't a hypocrite along with many a champagne socialist.

[wolves_wanderer]

turbobloke said:

Good to see that PH socialists are afraid of owning the term, pretending it doesn't exist is like pretending Bliar isn't a hypocrite along with many a champagne socialist.

Nice to see that I have been declared a socialist by no lesser authority than Turbobloke, I'm honoured.

You said

turbobloke said:

If somebody succeeds and gains wealth through their own skills, effort and considered risk-taking, everyone but the thinly populated PH socialist contingency will say 'well done'.

Imagine using your skills to become an MP, gaining promotion to lead a left-wing party, taking the risk of moving it to the right to the extent where you are "intensely relaxed about people becoming filthy rich". Surely everyone but the somewhat overpopulated PH 'kipper tendency will say "well done"