Firework storage safety - is there any?
Discussion
Out walking the dogs up on the hills overlooking Stafford last night and at first I wondered why an organised bonfire and firework display was being held quite so early. Sadly, it transpires this was a fire in a firework factory, there are two people in hospital, others with minor ailments and injuries and two missing. Today there are numerous businesses suffering forced closure, due to the ongoing hazard and cleanup.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffor...
It could actually have been worse - the site is close to the West Coast Main Line.
Whilst this one is close to home, I am aware there have been a number of other firework store/factory fires in recent years.
I had a quick look for regulations but could not see any specifics with regard to manufacturing and storing large quantities of fireworks - other than the plain fact you need a licence - and wonder whether:
a.) there are guidelines and measures to isolate the stores so fires cannot spread and,
b.) whether they need review
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffor...
It could actually have been worse - the site is close to the West Coast Main Line.
Whilst this one is close to home, I am aware there have been a number of other firework store/factory fires in recent years.
I had a quick look for regulations but could not see any specifics with regard to manufacturing and storing large quantities of fireworks - other than the plain fact you need a licence - and wonder whether:
a.) there are guidelines and measures to isolate the stores so fires cannot spread and,
b.) whether they need review
Most shops selling fireworks will have a sign somewhere saying that they're licenced. Years back Woolworths had them kept in a locked room which was separate to the main store room and in metal boxes (from memory). The fact that at the one you're talking about someone has been arrested suggests to me that all the fire rules in the world might not have helped.
From what I see, the fireworks stored are not in metal boxes. I can't find any rules specific to this, but this does not exactly fill me with confidence: http://www.firework-review.org.uk/safe-fireworks-s...
I can't see that in this warehouse, with the speed the thing went up, that there could possibly be any fire-proof containers. Friends of friends on FB were there - one of them working at the place - and said they had to move very swiftly to get out. Not good.
It seems a major failing to me if that is the case. I own a factory and just to keep a few tins of pain thinners in the shop we have to have a lockable metal storage chest.
I can't see that in this warehouse, with the speed the thing went up, that there could possibly be any fire-proof containers. Friends of friends on FB were there - one of them working at the place - and said they had to move very swiftly to get out. Not good.
It seems a major failing to me if that is the case. I own a factory and just to keep a few tins of pain thinners in the shop we have to have a lockable metal storage chest.
it probably comes down to known risk for the fire brigade. in your place, as mine all the flamables are kept together, the firebrigade is careful around there, etc. All the metal boxes in the world aren't going to put the fireworks out: the unit is essentially the metal box, the firebrigade stands back. Woolworths and other shops don't normally stock fireworks, hence they need their special metal box. Same applies to the factory/distributors of the paint thinner etc: its not kept locked away beyond being in a known flammable place.
Without knowing whats gone on, for some one to be arrested it sounds like theres a level of intent and so preventing the fire will be harder.
Without knowing whats gone on, for some one to be arrested it sounds like theres a level of intent and so preventing the fire will be harder.
mcdjl said:
Without knowing whats gone on, for some one to be arrested it sounds like theres a level of intent and so preventing the fire will be harder.
I don't disagree with that, aside from this, the firms' parent company Stafford Plastics Limited, looks as though it is being wound up - any business fire in such circumstances is a bit suspect.However, even with intent, there should be measure to at least slow if not prevent the spread of fire.
To my mind, eyewitness comments and the numbers of people caught up in the fire suggest
a.) a very rapid escalation of the fire and
b.) little to no isolation of the stored goods from fire
I actually know the industrial unit fairly well - know who owns it - and wouldn't say it is anything other than an ordinary crinkly tin shed type place - like a million other such premises and the one I work in too. Not ideal for confining a fire like that.
Digga said:
From what I see, the fireworks stored are not in metal boxes. I can't find any rules specific to this, but this does not exactly fill me with confidence: http://www.firework-review.org.uk/safe-fireworks-s...
I can't see that in this warehouse, with the speed the thing went up, that there could possibly be any fire-proof containers. Friends of friends on FB were there - one of them working at the place - and said they had to move very swiftly to get out. Not good.
It seems a major failing to me if that is the case. I own a factory and just to keep a few tins of pain thinners in the shop we have to have a lockable metal storage chest.
Put fireworks, or any relatively low power explosive, into a sealed metal box and you have then effectively made things much worse if they do accidentally ignite. Same principle as a pipe bomb.I can't see that in this warehouse, with the speed the thing went up, that there could possibly be any fire-proof containers. Friends of friends on FB were there - one of them working at the place - and said they had to move very swiftly to get out. Not good.
It seems a major failing to me if that is the case. I own a factory and just to keep a few tins of pain thinners in the shop we have to have a lockable metal storage chest.
Fireworks factories/storage areas often look very ramshackle because the buildings are purposely designed and constructed in a way so as not to confine any accidental ignitions.
Having said that, they should be sited in the middle of nowhere, just in case...
FurtiveFreddy said:
Having said that, they should be sited in the middle of nowhere, just in case...
This one most certainly was not - a quick Google maps for "Tilcon Avenue, Stafford" will illustrate.Back in 2006 two firefighters were killed in a firework factory fire in Essex. I know of two other fires besides this. Seems to me a pretty dangerous business to not be well isolated.
I realise confining the detonations will risk them being more concentrated and powerful, but you would think there were better screening, partitioning or containment methods than merely having the things in cadboard boxes on shelves and racks.
Here's one theory you can file under 'forget': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQsVhMnPM64
No idea where the hell it came from.
No idea where the hell it came from.
Digga said:
Here's one theory you can file under 'forget': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQsVhMnPM64
No idea where the hell it came from.
I wish I had an imagination that good! No idea where the hell it came from.
Digga said:
Here's one theory you can file under 'forget': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQsVhMnPM64
No idea where the hell it came from.
So, the Pope has a cat on his head and his head catches fire so the eagle flies off with a rabbit.No idea where the hell it came from.
And that means the end of the world is nigh?
Have I got that right?
My mum used to live about 400 yards (as the crow flies) from there! Thought the street name was familiar. I think the nearest dwelling is probably 200 yards away.
Not sure how you'd contain them practically. Metal boxes would tend to keep out sparks and flames, but restrict the possibility of seeing what was happening inside and generate shrapnel if the lot did go up. An inert atmosphere would prevent external sources of combustion, but there would be a significant asphyxiation risk to anyone working there and not prevent combustion through static, etc.
Not sure how you'd contain them practically. Metal boxes would tend to keep out sparks and flames, but restrict the possibility of seeing what was happening inside and generate shrapnel if the lot did go up. An inert atmosphere would prevent external sources of combustion, but there would be a significant asphyxiation risk to anyone working there and not prevent combustion through static, etc.
Digga said:
Here's one theory you can file under 'forget': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQsVhMnPM64
No idea where the hell it came from.
Seems legit.No idea where the hell it came from.
First year I've had to keep fireworks in the house, so, for safety, I've kept them all in a bath full of cold water.
I've even locked the bathroom door (from the inside, I climbed out the window) just to stop the kids from pinching one and sneaking off to their friends house. Little Devils, never can be too careful LOL.
I'll dry them out in the oven turned down low nearer bonfire night.
I've even locked the bathroom door (from the inside, I climbed out the window) just to stop the kids from pinching one and sneaking off to their friends house. Little Devils, never can be too careful LOL.
I'll dry them out in the oven turned down low nearer bonfire night.
The Lewes fire was spectacular and visible from miles away. Seem to recall the owner of the site was detained at her majestys pleasure as well.
It would seem sensible for those facilities to be in remote locations so that they only affect themselves. I would be surprised if many insurance companies are happy with insuring them in populated areas due tot he likliehood of claims from neighbours etc.
It would seem sensible for those facilities to be in remote locations so that they only affect themselves. I would be surprised if many insurance companies are happy with insuring them in populated areas due tot he likliehood of claims from neighbours etc.
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