Petrol Prices

[Vaud]

Tasmindevil said:

Exactly, plus the lower the price of petrol the less tax revenue, add to this lower production levels in the North Sea so again less tax revenue so don't be surprised that the tax is gained elsewhere so in reality no ones a winner in the long run.

Indeed. I'm actually happy with £1 a litre. I've got used to it. Short term I am happy to be taxed to keep it at that level if it mitigates taxes elsewhere.

Though that is a selfish view as I don't drive much.

[unrepentant]

Willy Nilly said:

Is it cheaper to buy health insurance or expensive petrol?

Dunno. My employer pays all my health insurance premiums. But I do know can fill up my lovely 550HP V8 Jag for 1/2 what it cost a year ago.

[ZOLLAR]

Petrol 99.8p
Diesel 97.8p

Swansea, on thursday I get to fill up the Discovery, strangely excited about it

[JMGS4]

Prices here in the southern Black Forest (higher than most due to the CH-border) today
Diesel €0,0989 = 74p
Super Plus 100 octane €1,31 = 99p
Super E5 95 Octane €1,29 = 96p
Up to 7 cts cheaper in other places in D!!!
Austria has on average 10-15 cts cheaper than above!

I'll say it again.... you're being ripped off!!!!

[Gecko1978]

Tasmindevil said:

Vaud said:

The downside of fuel dropping is overall deflation (given it's direct and indirect use by the consumer), which is really not good for the economy.

Exactly, plus the lower the price of petrol the less tax revenue, add to this lower production levels in the North Sea so again less tax revenue so don't be surprised that the tax is gained elsewhere so in reality no ones a winner in the long run.

Tax on fuel is in the form of "duty" so a set amount so the underlying price has F all to do with the duty raised etc. VAT is added on post duty so that portion of the tax take will vary but its marginal.

Lower prices do lead to deflation yes but falling carrage cost can also lead to increased demand so to say 1 thing always leads to another is not true.

Petrol etc is a vital commodity in our country and it is moraaly reprehensible to charge what we do for it versus many other nations. Remember fuel prices affect the poor much more than the rich (the government etc don't seem to realise buses run on pump fed fuel also)

[anonymous-user]

Tasmindevil said:

Vaud said:

The downside of fuel dropping is overall deflation (given it's direct and indirect use by the consumer), which is really not good for the economy.

Exactly, plus the lower the price of petrol the less tax revenue, add to this lower production levels in the North Sea so again less tax revenue so don't be surprised that the tax is gained elsewhere so in reality no ones a winner in the long run.

Not really. Only VAT is affected, a small element and short term. As for the overall tax take, no reason at all why our government couldn't manage on a reduced take.

You can always voluntarily contribute more tax should you think they deserve it.

[Vaud]

Gecko1978 said:

Petrol etc is a vital commodity in our country and it is moraaly reprehensible to charge what we do for it versus many other nations.

You mean like France, Germany, the rest of Europe where it is pretty much the same cost as here?

Or massively more expensive:

http://www.fuel-prices-europe.info/index.php?sort=...

[Murph7355]

Vaud said:

You mean like France, Germany, the rest of Europe where it is pretty much the same cost as here?

Or massively more expensive:

http://www.fuel-prices-europe.info/index.php?sort=...

Peculiar definition of Europe they use there, but

- the UK is 7th highest
- only Israel (Europe?), Italy (fair enough - probably cheaper for them to run cars on wine), Denmark, Malta, Norway and the Netherlands are more expensive
- of those that are more expensive, only 2 (Malta - I guess economics plays a part there, and Norway - everything's expensive there) are more expensive for diesel. Indicates fuel tax priorities perhaps?
- over 65% of the countries noted on the list are more than 10% a litre cheaper than here (looking solely at 95RON u/l). Imagine if you ran a business dependent on fuel and you knew competitors elsewhere in Europe were getting their fuel 10% cheaper...

Gecko's right IMO.

[MG CHRIS]

JMGS4 said:

Prices here in the southern Black Forest (higher than most due to the CH-border) today
Diesel €0,0989 = 74p
Super Plus 100 octane €1,31 = 99p
Super E5 95 Octane €1,29 = 96p
Up to 7 cts cheaper in other places in D!!!
Austria has on average 10-15 cts cheaper than above!

I'll say it again.... you're being ripped off!!!!

But we have different tax levels than in your country so cant really compare like for like.

[Vaud]

Murph7355 said:

Peculiar definition of Europe they use there, but

- the UK is 7th highest
- only Israel (Europe?), Italy (fair enough - probably cheaper for them to run cars on wine), Denmark, Malta, Norway and the Netherlands are more expensive
- of those that are more expensive, only 2 (Malta - I guess economics plays a part there, and Norway - everything's expensive there) are more expensive for diesel. Indicates fuel tax priorities perhaps?
- over 65% of the countries noted on the list are more than 10% a litre cheaper than here (looking solely at 95RON u/l). Imagine if you ran a business dependent on fuel and you knew competitors elsewhere in Europe were getting their fuel 10% cheaper...

Gecko's right IMO.

My point is that we aren't THAT expensive. It's a 10-15% difference, mostly... not a "game changing" amount.

[dandarez]

MG CHRIS said:

JMGS4 said:

Prices here in the southern Black Forest (higher than most due to the CH-border) today
Diesel €0,0989 = 74p
Super Plus 100 octane €1,31 = 99p
Super E5 95 Octane €1,29 = 96p
Up to 7 cts cheaper in other places in D!!!
Austria has on average 10-15 cts cheaper than above!

I'll say it again.... you're being ripped off!!!!

But we have different higher rip-off tax levels here than in your country so can't really compare like for like.

EFA

[Murph7355]

Vaud said:

My point is that we aren't THAT expensive. It's a 10-15% difference, mostly... not a "game changing" amount.

To you perhaps.

But if in your line of work your costs were dinked 10% against your international counterparts....?

From a personal perspective, just on car mileage alone I reckon that 10% could be worth 4-500+ quid a year even with fuel at current prices. And that's without the impact it has on other things I use - food delivery? Goods shipping? Flights? Train fares? Etc etc.

Even if you don't drive very much personally, I would bet there are more aspects of your life impacted by fuel costs than you would initially think.

(I'm also an open advocate for a much smaller state which obviously influences my viewpoint too).

[Vaud]

Murph7355 said:

To you perhaps.

But if in your line of work your costs were dinked 10% against your international counterparts....?

From a personal perspective, just on car mileage alone I reckon that 10% could be worth 4-500+ quid a year even with fuel at current prices. And that's without the impact it has on other things I use - food delivery? Goods shipping? Flights? Train fares? Etc etc.

Even if you don't drive very much personally, I would bet there are more aspects of your life impacted by fuel costs than you would initially think.

(I'm also an open advocate for a much smaller state which obviously influences my viewpoint too).

I know the use of fuel in the supply chain.

But at an end user / motorist level it's not as simple as a headline comparison though that makes for easy headlines.

What are the other costs of living? Direct / indirect taxation... etc - Simple tables don't tell the story, just as simple country comparisons don't tell the story...

[Tasmindevil]

Gecko1978 said:

Tasmindevil said:

Vaud said:

The downside of fuel dropping is overall deflation (given it's direct and indirect use by the consumer), which is really not good for the economy.

Exactly, plus the lower the price of petrol the less tax revenue, add to this lower production levels in the North Sea so again less tax revenue so don't be surprised that the tax is gained elsewhere so in reality no ones a winner in the long run.

Tax on fuel is in the form of "duty" so a set amount so the underlying price has F all to do with the duty raised etc. VAT is added on post duty so that portion of the tax take will vary but its marginal.

Lower prices do lead to deflation yes but falling carrage cost can also lead to increased demand so to say 1 thing always leads to another is not true.

Petrol etc is a vital commodity in our country and it is moraaly reprehensible to charge what we do for it versus many other nations. Remember fuel prices affect the poor much more than the rich (the government etc don't seem to realise buses run on pump fed fuel also)

Don't bus companies receive a fuel duty rebate so not exposed to the taxes other raid user are!
Yes duty is a static revenue stream and yes vat will adjust accordingly, but looking at it in a broader sense vat is only part of the equation, North Sea tax revenues will fall significantly, companies going to the wall, O&G company profits down so less tax and of course add to this the impact on the welfare state. Although I cannot verify these figures 65,000 people have lost their O&G related jobs in the UK. I do question that figure but politicians, unions and media have touted this figure and I know there will be many more, oil price recovery is predicted to be anything from 2017 to 2020 so long term issues throughout the UK. Small changes can have a big impact, after the drive by the UK government to get us to go greener using smaller cars etc with road tax incentives etc etc a shortfall in fuel tax revenue was recognised a few budgets later, funny how politicians never saw that coming.

[JMGS4]

MG CHRIS said:

JMGS4 said:

Prices here in the southern Black Forest (higher than most due to the CH-border) today
Diesel €0,0989 = 74p
Super Plus 100 octane €1,31 = 99p
Super E5 95 Octane €1,29 = 96p
Up to 7 cts cheaper in other places in D!!!
Austria has on average 10-15 cts cheaper than above!

I'll say it again.... you're being ripped off!!!!

But we have different tax levels than in your country so cant really compare like for like.

Ours includes an "illegal" green 10cts/l tax, so-called because it was supposed to help the pension pot, has been taken/stolen from us for years and NOTHING has been paid into the pensions pot!

[rich888]

Call me a cynic but Chancellor George Osborne may well be praying that fuel prices remain low in the next few months so that he can hike the price of petrol or diesel in the next tax filled budget.

Any sane chancellor with an ounce of common-sense would be cutting expenditure across all departments in order to genuinely reduce the national debt, but that is not what the current breed of career bred politicians do because they really don't have a clue how to balance budgets. You only have to look at them and listen to them to realise just how stupid and out-of-touch with reality they have become!

The great big Lib, Lab, Con.

[Gecko1978]

rich888 said:

Call me a cynic but Chancellor George Osborne may well be praying that fuel prices remain low in the next few months so that he can hike the price of petrol or diesel in the next tax filled budget.

Any sane chancellor with an ounce of common-sense would be cutting expenditure across all departments in order to genuinely reduce the national debt, but that is not what the current breed of career bred politicians do because they really don't have a clue how to balance budgets. You only have to look at them and listen to them to realise just how stupid and out-of-touch with reality they have become!

The great big Lib, Lab, Con.

In some respects you are right though I believe some budgest were protected and thus he can't adjust them, health, education and foreign aid I seem to recall. Which leaves the rest to tinker with.

Thing is with public spending and or tax's is the electorate only care about the ones that impact them directly. So you could raise tax on any bank profits by 10% and people might be very happy (assume here only a small % of people work in the industry relative to population). Banks then act accordinlgy an raise fees cut savings rates etc long term people worse off. On the other hand cut welfair and rich Powerful directors jump for joy and 40% of the public cry fowl. Long term this would cut goverment costs an might increase numbers in work as they are foced to make ends meet ergo the economey grows.

Both scenarios are filled with holes of course but the point is in the real world you can't just cut and or tax without concequences and thus the governments hands are somewhat tied. Raie tax on fule when prices are lowish (not 80p a liter are they) and people notice get annoyed vote for someone else and over all you make little difference to the economey as people use cars less.