Veteran assaulted on way to Remebrance Ceremony
Discussion
Sway said:
Fair question.
IMO, for those already citizens, then I think two things are key.
Firstly, changes to the education system so that children are educated to the values of the nation, not those of a non-integrated teaching staff. That would also apply to the abolition of all faith schools (including Christian). Just because people's parents believe in medieval practices doesn't mean their children are lost, whether it be bigging up Genesis over Evolution or subjugation of women. Science, respect and openness are things that children pick up very quickly, if these backwards beliefs are challenged with logic and reasoning.
Second, an attempt to engage and enfranchise those 'enclaves', not through pandering to them, but by demonstrating the benefits of adopting 'our' values.
It's worked in the past.
As for new immigration, I think that we firstly need to try and define our nations values effectively, and set criteria for entry. These MUST include a decent level of ability in English. A demonstrated lack of racism and misogyny. A demonstrated ability to support themselves. Plus a level of respect for those values.
We need to recognise that we are a great country - one that many millions (in fact, probably billions) of people wish to live in, for the opportunities they bring. So, like America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, we should use that to our advantage. Decide upon the appropriate level of immigration per year (to prevent pressures on services and permit an improved ability to educate and integrate into our society) as long as the values test has been passed.
And that is the scary confirmation of the ultimate agenda which both the indigenous and immigrant ethnic cultures are facing.An agenda which takes no account of the idea of self determination,cultural beliefs,ethnic and national identity and differences however alien or controversial those beliefs and differences might be.IMO, for those already citizens, then I think two things are key.
Firstly, changes to the education system so that children are educated to the values of the nation, not those of a non-integrated teaching staff. That would also apply to the abolition of all faith schools (including Christian). Just because people's parents believe in medieval practices doesn't mean their children are lost, whether it be bigging up Genesis over Evolution or subjugation of women. Science, respect and openness are things that children pick up very quickly, if these backwards beliefs are challenged with logic and reasoning.
Second, an attempt to engage and enfranchise those 'enclaves', not through pandering to them, but by demonstrating the benefits of adopting 'our' values.
It's worked in the past.
As for new immigration, I think that we firstly need to try and define our nations values effectively, and set criteria for entry. These MUST include a decent level of ability in English. A demonstrated lack of racism and misogyny. A demonstrated ability to support themselves. Plus a level of respect for those values.
We need to recognise that we are a great country - one that many millions (in fact, probably billions) of people wish to live in, for the opportunities they bring. So, like America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, we should use that to our advantage. Decide upon the appropriate level of immigration per year (to prevent pressures on services and permit an improved ability to educate and integrate into our society) as long as the values test has been passed.
The problem in the case of at least the immigrant Muslim Asian community,not surprisingly,being mostly one of alienation in western society.To the point where their immigrant status becomes untenable for both them and the indigenous community.
IE either we move closer to being a radical Islamic society like the one that they originate from,or they have to go home where they belong.Or we eventually end up in a similar situation as that which existed during the breakup of India and/or Yugoslavia and/or the ongoing issues in the Middle East.
However trying to force yet more integration on the different ethnic groups is the last thing that the problem needs and,with the exeption of at least trying to dilute the present localised numbers issues by a programme of resettlement and wide spread distribution,there is no way that it will solve any of those issues.It is more likely to just make them worse.
BlackLabel said:
100-150k NHS doctors (out of a total of c.250k) are born overseas or are children/grandchildren of immigrants. Should these pesky foreigners leave too?
Here's one who has left of his own accord. Left to join the Taliban. He must be on some sort of 'peaceful inner struggle'.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-i...
XJ Flyer said:
And that is the scary confirmation of the ultimate agenda which both the indigenous and immigrant ethnic cultures are facing.An agenda which takes no account of the idea of self determination,cultural beliefs,ethnic and national identity and differences however alien or controversial those beliefs and differences might be.
The problem in the case of at least the immigrant Muslim Asian community,not surprisingly,being mostly one of alienation in western society.To the point where their immigrant status becomes untenable for both them and the indigenous community.
IE either we move closer to being a radical Islamic society like the one that they originate from,or they have to go home where they belong.Or we eventually end up in a similar situation as that which existed during the breakup of India and/or Yugoslavia and/or the ongoing issues in the Middle East.
However trying to force yet more integration on the different ethnic groups is the last thing that the problem needs and,with the exeption of at least trying to dilute the present localised numbers issues by a programme of resettlement and wide spread distribution,there is no way that it will solve any of those issues.It is more likely to just make them worse.
You're ignoring my point completely. The problem in the case of at least the immigrant Muslim Asian community,not surprisingly,being mostly one of alienation in western society.To the point where their immigrant status becomes untenable for both them and the indigenous community.
IE either we move closer to being a radical Islamic society like the one that they originate from,or they have to go home where they belong.Or we eventually end up in a similar situation as that which existed during the breakup of India and/or Yugoslavia and/or the ongoing issues in the Middle East.
However trying to force yet more integration on the different ethnic groups is the last thing that the problem needs and,with the exeption of at least trying to dilute the present localised numbers issues by a programme of resettlement and wide spread distribution,there is no way that it will solve any of those issues.It is more likely to just make them worse.
I've given you plenty of examples of 'immigrant Muslims' for whom the idea of an Islamic State in the UK is as abhorrent as it is for you or I.
You are different from me, in a massively broad way. Yet because we share the same 'ethnic identity' you assume we'll get on fine. We won't.
I'll repeat myself, WHERE PEOPLE MUTUALLY RESPECT EACH OTHER, AND WISH TO INTEGRATE, THEY WILL GET ON JUST FINE.
Regardless of ethnicity or internal beliefs.
The problems within certain sections of the Islamic community are dealt with within my post - lack of education, lack of proficiency in English, lack of challenge of abhorrent medieval practices. All those things create areas where there is no mutual respect of people.
And please, stop with insinuating I have some form of f
king agenda - that being an irrevocable shift in the makeup of the UK. That's utter bks, really very divisive, and yet another example of simplistic stereotyping. I have my beliefs due to my experiences. You have no f
king idea what they consist of. I've said time and time again that people need to fit with our values, or fk right off. Yet you completely ignore this, and claim I'm part of some form of conspiracy against my own country. The only agenda I have is viewing humans as individuals, with appropriate respect where due, to further improve this country (which I'll spell out DOES NOT INCLUDE HAVING A MAJORITY ETHNIC CHANGE, DOES NOT INCLUDE HAVING AN ISLAMIC STATE, AND DOES NOT INCLUDE HAVING MEDIEVAL, DIVISIVE AND IGNORANT VIEWS LIKE YOURS)...
Muntu said:
Sway said:
AND DOES NOT INCLUDE HAVING MEDIEVAL, DIVISIVE AND IGNORANT VIEWS LIKE YOURS)...
Isn't that what the koran is cover to cover full of?Awesome use of the Caps Lock functionality on your keyboard BTW
Yep, as is both the old and new testaments...
However, there are plenty of Muslims (like adherents to every religion) who don't treat it as an exact road map for life, and instead follow the principles that fit with modern society.
Nothing wrong with not eating pork (well, there is in my mind but hey!), or not drinking alcohol. There is plenty wrong with FGM and subjugation of women.
Those who are willing to recognise outdated, flawed arguments in their religion are fine. Those that don't aren't (in this country). Whether it be female Bishops and acceptance of contraception, or removal of burkas and leaving clitorises alone.
Same as those who view all other ethnicities, regardless of individual beliefs or actions as aliens are outdated and unacceptable in this country...
As for caps lock, it was either that or resort to lots and lots of swearing. It's too early on a Sunday morning for that (and I can't be arsed with formatting bold on my phone).
However, there are plenty of Muslims (like adherents to every religion) who don't treat it as an exact road map for life, and instead follow the principles that fit with modern society.
Nothing wrong with not eating pork (well, there is in my mind but hey!), or not drinking alcohol. There is plenty wrong with FGM and subjugation of women.
Those who are willing to recognise outdated, flawed arguments in their religion are fine. Those that don't aren't (in this country). Whether it be female Bishops and acceptance of contraception, or removal of burkas and leaving clitorises alone.
Same as those who view all other ethnicities, regardless of individual beliefs or actions as aliens are outdated and unacceptable in this country...
As for caps lock, it was either that or resort to lots and lots of swearing. It's too early on a Sunday morning for that (and I can't be arsed with formatting bold on my phone).
e21Mark said:
Muntu said:
Sway said:
AND DOES NOT INCLUDE HAVING MEDIEVAL, DIVISIVE AND IGNORANT VIEWS LIKE YOURS)...
Isn't that what the koran is cover to cover full of?Awesome use of the Caps Lock functionality on your keyboard BTW
gpo746 said:
Now that the queen of diversion has chimed in this thread is as doomed as anything.
Case in point 
I'm sorry not everyone subscribes to your warped agenda. You just need to learn how to play in a forum where some people might have different point of views than you.
Yet you don't call someone bringing up "Breast Ironing" on this thread a diversionist. Funny that...
gpo746 said:
May well be that some folk are getting more than a little fed up of being told what to think. The same folk are perhaps fed up of being labelled as racist for suggesting that the leeway being given to a certain type of religious follower has been taken for granted and said religious follower has been taking the Michael for too long. Happen the same folk who are getting fed up are also fed up of being labelled as racist for expressing any sensible concerns about the way things are going.
Just a thought. Not particularly aimed at you but your post is a good enough one to reply to on the subject.
To be honest the racist ship sailed along time ago. The stuff what is said about Muslims, Pakistani's, Arabs (be it race or religion) are now alot more tolerable in this day and age. I'm not defending Muslims as i know some are crazy evil bJust a thought. Not particularly aimed at you but your post is a good enough one to reply to on the subject.
ds however i do laugh to some of the stuff what what is now made up. Muslims against Peppa pig, Muslims knock down Churches and build Mosques, Muslims this , Muslims that. Some of this stuff gets over 100 thousand likes on social media and thus the social divide increases on both sides. Yes, the TRUE issues need to be tackled and discussed head on without being branded a racist however some stuff what is said on the likes of social media, the internet and in person is passed the stage of "free speech" I welcome the quote train.
NicD said:
I must have missed some posts
who is this,and why?
Oh, he's probably referring to the racist abuse and slander-esque comments I start receiving from some of our esteemed friends when I sometimes introduce a little bit of objectivity into things. This has resulted in the thread being locked and then they blame me because I don't tow the "all Muslims are evil/bad/naughty" line and therefore I get accused of "diverting the thread" [away from Muslim bashing]. Even had a bit of a stalker at one point. All fun and games here.who is this,and why?
Gpo's not a great fan of mine as you can probably tell.
Sway said:
XJ Flyer said:
And that is the scary confirmation of the ultimate agenda which both the indigenous and immigrant ethnic cultures are facing.An agenda which takes no account of the idea of self determination,cultural beliefs,ethnic and national identity and differences however alien or controversial those beliefs and differences might be.
The problem in the case of at least the immigrant Muslim Asian community,not surprisingly,being mostly one of alienation in western society.To the point where their immigrant status becomes untenable for both them and the indigenous community.
IE either we move closer to being a radical Islamic society like the one that they originate from,or they have to go home where they belong.Or we eventually end up in a similar situation as that which existed during the breakup of India and/or Yugoslavia and/or the ongoing issues in the Middle East.
However trying to force yet more integration on the different ethnic groups is the last thing that the problem needs and,with the exeption of at least trying to dilute the present localised numbers issues by a programme of resettlement and wide spread distribution,there is no way that it will solve any of those issues.It is more likely to just make them worse.
You're ignoring my point completely. The problem in the case of at least the immigrant Muslim Asian community,not surprisingly,being mostly one of alienation in western society.To the point where their immigrant status becomes untenable for both them and the indigenous community.
IE either we move closer to being a radical Islamic society like the one that they originate from,or they have to go home where they belong.Or we eventually end up in a similar situation as that which existed during the breakup of India and/or Yugoslavia and/or the ongoing issues in the Middle East.
However trying to force yet more integration on the different ethnic groups is the last thing that the problem needs and,with the exeption of at least trying to dilute the present localised numbers issues by a programme of resettlement and wide spread distribution,there is no way that it will solve any of those issues.It is more likely to just make them worse.
I've given you plenty of examples of 'immigrant Muslims' for whom the idea of an Islamic State in the UK is as abhorrent as it is for you or I.
You are different from me, in a massively broad way. Yet because we share the same 'ethnic identity' you assume we'll get on fine. We won't.
I'll repeat myself, WHERE PEOPLE MUTUALLY RESPECT EACH OTHER, AND WISH TO INTEGRATE, THEY WILL GET ON JUST FINE.
Regardless of ethnicity or internal beliefs.
The problems within certain sections of the Islamic community are dealt with within my post - lack of education, lack of proficiency in English, lack of challenge of abhorrent medieval practices. All those things create areas where there is no mutual respect of people.
And please, stop with insinuating I have some form of f
king agenda - that being an irrevocable shift in the makeup of the UK. That's utter bks, really very divisive, and yet another example of simplistic stereotyping. I have my beliefs due to my experiences. You have no f
king idea what they consist of. I've said time and time again that people need to fit with our values, or fk right off. Yet you completely ignore this, and claim I'm part of some form of conspiracy against my own country. The only agenda I have is viewing humans as individuals, with appropriate respect where due, to further improve this country (which I'll spell out DOES NOT INCLUDE HAVING A MAJORITY ETHNIC CHANGE, DOES NOT INCLUDE HAVING AN ISLAMIC STATE, AND DOES NOT INCLUDE HAVING MEDIEVAL, DIVISIVE AND IGNORANT VIEWS LIKE YOURS)...
IE socialism and its ideology of social engineering,wether it be liquidating or artificially integrating different cultures,is just as bad whoever it is who is trying to carry it out.Wether it be the Taliban,Hitler,or Tito amongst others like yourself.
zuby84 said:
Muntu said:
It may well be, but that is not necessarily relevant on this thread. this started off as a Muslim bashing thread - can we not keep it on topic guys? Feel free to start a fresh thread about it, I'd probably contribute to it
Corrected it for you.All you did there was insert a little oblique ad hominem, well done.
zuby84 said:
Muntu said:
It may well be, but that is not necessarily relevant on this thread. this started off as a Muslim bashing thread - can we not keep it on topic guys? Feel free to start a fresh thread about it, I'd probably contribute to it
Corrected it for you.http://www.keighleynews.co.uk/news/11602285.Keighl...hijackinghis_robbery_ordeal/?action=complain&cid=13402096
Must be quite upsetting for some on here...
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