Why you should question all charities before giving

[mph1977]

Rick101 said:

I never give money to charity. Of course I get the disapproving looks and comments as ITS CHARITY INIT!


In have given my time and labour to several charities and I have made a difference to people's lives. Its quite telling when a charity will take your money but are not interested in your time.

not really, your time only has value if the charity can make use of it when you give it.

[Vaud]

FredericRobinson said:

'Together, they employ more than a million staff'

One in 30 working people in the UK works for a charity? Don't believe that for a second

Depends if Universities are counted or not.

[Pesty]

Churches mosques and other places like that are charitable I belive.

[2.5pi]

I'm going to be really annoying by not giving details but I'm involved in a business who are being lobbied against wrongly by a charity.

They have spent millions without any regard to the truth of the campaign, they have also lied through their teeth , ignored inconvenient facts and generally tried to bulldoze through their agenda.

I'd love to say more but lawyers are already involved and I'd like to give them a clear field of fire.

It really shook me as I'd hoped and assumed that they would be interested in "truth" rather than just sticking to their mistaken view.

I have tried and failed to engage with them but no dice.

The sad thing is I'm instinctively in accord with their stated objectives , it's just in reality they have proved duplicitous beyond belief.

Now only local charities that I know well get donations.

[Vipers]

As long as this country gives loads of taxpayers dosh to other countries, some who don't want it, I will never give to charity.

[s2kjock]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Most independent schools have charitable status. They pass the "charity test".

The huge variety of types of charities we have and the way they operate means it is not easy to draw comparisons with voluntary sector peers, nor indeed the private or public sector.

[gpo746]

Someone above pretty much nailed it
I will only give to local charities.
Incidentally on a side issue but related. I was pretty disgusted when in Blackpool the other week we were approached by the "support for soldiers" chuggers. When asked what their charity number was they couldn't / wouldn't give it out and then became abusive. It appears after chatting with an old boy (local) that Blackpool is a mecca for these chugger types as the council don't implement any by laws against them.

[Adrian W]

vanordinaire said:

I work for a charity. We spend almost all our income on servicing bank loans and on staff and contractors salaries doing what our charity was set up to do, providing affordable housing to around 6000 families. There are many different types of charitable organisations , some do what people expect charities to do, distributing donations to causes which need them but others provide services which are needed, and in providing services, most of their costs will be salaries. I don't see a problem with this.

ps like many charities, we do not accept public donations.

Can you define affordable housing, I got a shock a few weeks ago, someone I know very well is in affordable housing provided by a housing association, like a lot of low income people she is in the trap where she could afford a mortgage but does not meet the criteria to get one, her housing association rent for a two bedroom small house is £800 per month, significantly more than the local council rents. The housing association is a charity, but clearly not a not for profit charity.

[rover 623gsi]

'affordable housing' is 80% of market rate - it is a very specific definition. Since the 'affordable housing' regime was brought in by the coalition govt most properties in social housing (council or housing association) are only offered at affordable rent. Tenants in social housing prior to 2010 are usually on 'social rent' which is usually between 50-60% of market rate. Housing associations and council can still let properties at social rent by very fem of them do now - it would mean less income.

[037]

What percentage of thier donations are charity's able to claim as expenses?
I was told it was upto 75%!!

[vanordinaire]

Adrian W said:

vanordinaire said:

I work for a charity. We spend almost all our income on servicing bank loans and on staff and contractors salaries doing what our charity was set up to do, providing affordable housing to around 6000 families. There are many different types of charitable organisations , some do what people expect charities to do, distributing donations to causes which need them but others provide services which are needed, and in providing services, most of their costs will be salaries. I don't see a problem with this.

ps like many charities, we do not accept public donations.

Can you define affordable housing, I got a shock a few weeks ago, someone I know very well is in affordable housing provided by a housing association, like a lot of low income people she is in the trap where she could afford a mortgage but does not meet the criteria to get one, her housing association rent for a two bedroom small house is £800 per month, significantly more than the local council rents. The housing association is a charity, but clearly not a not for profit charity.

Our cheapest home is just over £60 per week, the dearest is just over £80, I'd say that is affordable .
However that wasn't my point, what I was trying to get across is that many organisations which are 'charities' do not match many people's idea of what a charity is. Many do not seek donations and objectives can be very varied. As well as my own example, someone has already mentioned private schools and there are many other models of 'charity'. I'm quite willing to believe the earlier statement that charities have over a million paid employees in the UK. We are relatively small but have over 150 full time paid employees.

[mph1977]

Adrian W said:

vanordinaire said:

I work for a charity. We spend almost all our income on servicing bank loans and on staff and contractors salaries doing what our charity was set up to do, providing affordable housing to around 6000 families. There are many different types of charitable organisations , some do what people expect charities to do, distributing donations to causes which need them but others provide services which are needed, and in providing services, most of their costs will be salaries. I don't see a problem with this.

ps like many charities, we do not accept public donations.

Can you define affordable housing, I got a shock a few weeks ago, someone I know very well is in affordable housing provided by a housing association, like a lot of low income people she is in the trap where she could afford a mortgage but does not meet the criteria to get one, her housing association rent for a two bedroom small house is £800 per month, significantly more than the local council rents. The housing association is a charity, but clearly not a not for profit charity.

1. I don't think you understand what 'not for profit' means ; This lack of understanding is quite common and often includes Charities own volunteer workforce - hence all the dummy spitting and teddy throwing when British Red Cross restructured a decade or so ago - although they did give up a loit of services as 'too hard' so some of the whinging was justified. Similar whinging has been a common thing within St John Ambulance over the past 2and s half or so years as people willfully misunderstand things with SJA's restructure ( and conveniently forget that many of the 30 + Ceounty Executive Officers were on nearly as much as 8 regional directors are now on )

2. what's the market rent for a comparable property ? LA 'social' rents are paid by far too many of their tenanats but it;s getting the lefties to change this and move those who have security of tenure but no housing need on affordable or market rents .

[hidetheelephants]

mph1977 said:

there are also things like the VRT and GpB TA Military SNCOs and Officers who are paid for at least some of their work with the cadet forces ...

Surely they're paid by the JPA goons in Glasgow? Or is it a mild dig at the piss poor hourly rate?

[mph1977]

hidetheelephants said:

mph1977 said:

there are also things like the VRT and GpB TA Military SNCOs and Officers who are paid for at least some of their work with the cadet forces ...

Surely they're paid by the JPA goons in Glasgow? Or is it a mild dig at the piss poor hourly rate?

their roles wouldn't exist without the cadet forces - iirc there is a MTD cap which is fairly low and i don't think they get paid for drill nights ( unlike gp A reservists) only camps and courses.

[rich888]

I stopped contributing to charities some years ago after a conversation with a manager of one of the more well known charities who said they no longer focused on selling second-hand clothing and had instead focused on selling new merchandise which offered higher margins due to the fact that they paid no rates for their high-street shops and their staff were volunteers. She was of course earning plenty and the upper management were on loads more. Is this where charity stops?

And what made me even more cross was learning that the very well promoted charity often seen on the telly thanks to hugely expensive TV advertising, whom shall remain nameless for the time being, was paying its staff to stay in the best hotels wherever they liked and spend pretty much whatever they liked on food and drink. This is so wrong when the money should be spent on our wounded troops, not spend on lavish accommodation and freebies for all involved in the charity... next time you see them on the street ask them where they are staying?

This attitude is all so wrong...

Whenever I am confronted by the charity of the day I now ask how much is their CEO being paid, tends to shut them up.

[gpo746]

rich888 said:

I stopped contributing to charities some years ago after a conversation with a manager of one of the more well known charities who said they no longer focused on selling second-hand clothing and had instead focused on selling new merchandise which offered higher margins due to the fact that they paid no rates for their high-street shops and their staff were volunteers. She was of course earning plenty and the upper management were on loads more. Is this where charity stops?

And what made me even more cross was learning that the very well promoted charity often seen on the telly thanks to hugely expensive TV advertising, whom shall remain nameless for the time being, was paying its staff to stay in the best hotels wherever they liked and spend pretty much whatever they liked on food and drink. This is so wrong when the money should be spent on our wounded troops, not spend on lavish accommodation and freebies for all involved in the charity... next time you see them on the street ask them where they are staying?

This attitude is all so wrong...

Whenever I am confronted by the charity of the day I now ask how much is their CEO being paid, tends to shut them up.

Barnados couldn't exist without the volunteers/ Cs types
PDSA is full of "new" stuff that is cheaper elsewhere and is again highly dependant on volunteers

[Rick101]

I was quite surprised to see H4H now has its own clothing line in Debenhams.

Its closer to a business with efficient tax arrangements than a charity IMO.

[mph1977]

Rick101 said:

I was quite surprised to see H4H now has its own clothing line in Debenhams.

Its closer to a business with efficient tax arrangements than a charity IMO.

A Business with efficient tax arrsngements and no extractive shareholders is exactly what a charity is, the bar / gate to entry is fulfilling the charitable purposes test.

[williamp]

Its also worth rmembering that in the last 4 weeks the uk piblic has raised over £15.5m fo channel 4 and their standup to cancer.

£33.6m fo children in need (bbc)

Poppy appeal (aiming to raise £40m)

Now the launch of liveaid, where sir bob expects up to give more.

Easily top £100m. In four weeks. With 5 weeks to go until christmas. I dont think the british public has anything to be ashamed of for not donating anymore at the moment.

[anonymous-user]

I have worked closely with the charity sector for the last decade and would echo those who draw a line between small, local charities, and the big nationals. This is of course a generalisation, but one borne out of plenty of experience....

The local charities are often staffed by volunteers, and those that are paid are on a pretty low salary, they often have a close personal relationship with the charity, or at least the area it operates in. Meeting typically took place in the hospice reception, a cramped offices, or often a dingy store room above one of their shops.

When dealing with national charities it is very different. The staff are mainly graduates, on a very clear career ladder. Meetings typically took place in grand board rooms in expensive central London buildings. Their priority was branding and the raising of cold, hard cash. They seemed utterly disconnected with the people that they are supposed to be helping

Now I appreciate there are benefits to the second approach, it's often a more efficient way to raise money. There were exceptions, but my overwhelming feeling was that they had become more concerned with sustaining themselves and often with promoting their political viewpoints, rather than the basic aims which the people giving their hard earned cash assume that they are spending their money on.

There is a place for charity, but large parts of the UK charity sector is in great danger of becoming bloated, self serving and, most importantly, an advert for people not to give money.