Why the UKIP will never work....

Why the UKIP will never work....

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sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
JBF50 said:
Telling people that all you need to do is draw a line on the map, pull up the draw bridge and all your problems will be solved - it is dangerous thinking and it is wrong.
They've said nothing of the sort, so you're 'thinking' is totally misguided.


XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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ClaphamGT3 said:
wiggy001 said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
Do you think that the OP is wrong to call out the fact that the UKIP Plymouth representative doesn't believe that politics should strive to create a society that represents all it's members?
If that is what the UKIP Plymouth quote actually said, then sure, why not. If this is (incorrectly, in my opinion) inferred from deliberately mis-reading something to make a point, then no.

That quote seems to say that UKIP is made up of "normal, working class people" so they won't create policies that have an adverse effect on "normal, working class people". Nowhere does it state they will screw over business owners. Nowhere does it state they will screw over high society. It just says they won't screw over the working class. The word "normal" is used because being working class is, I would imagine, the norm (ie majority) in this country.

However, it's very popular to take something UKIP say and spin it to suit an agenda, as the "powerfully built company director" did in the OP.
I think it quite clearly says that they will only work in the interests of people like them. This is not the basis for a healthy society.
How do you reach the conclusion that doing what is good for 'them',IE the average worker,isn't also good for everyone else in the economy as a whole.

As for 'them' thinking that UKIP will deliver that no chance.Being that the Rochester victory speech made it clear that UKIP is all about more of the same IE global free market economy and continuation of the cheap labour immigration agenda.If the working class wants a government that looks after the interests of the working class and therefore the country as a whole it will take a rebuilt Labour Party to do it.Which in this case means ditching the socialist ideology,and adopting an anti EU,anti global free market economy,and anti immigration stance.

wiggy001

6,542 posts

270 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
JBF50 said:
Telling people that all you need to do is draw a line on the map, pull up the draw bridge and all your problems will be solved - it is dangerous thinking and it is wrong.If Messrs Farage and Reckless start repatriating Poles and Greeks where will that leave the 1.4 million British citizens now living elsewhere in the European Union?An immigration debate that lacks a liberal voice, putting the positive case for a rational approach to a balanced system will be dangerous and divisive and ultimately will do harm to our economy here at home and our standing in the eyes of other countries overseas.
Can you point me to the parts of UKIP's manifesto where the statements in bold are please, as I'm struggling to find them.

JBF50

28 posts

114 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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sidicks said:
They've said nothing of the sort, so you're 'thinking' is totally misguided.
No it isn't, scratch below the surface and they are a racist/right-wing hate mob.

FredClogs

14,041 posts

160 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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sidicks said:
FredClogs said:
It astonishes me how a section of the public have assumed UKIP to represent them. It's true that any political party should be the sum of its members but The core of UKIP is establishment privilege and intellectual elitism, they do not at their core have any will or need to support the choices of working class people, b]they're all about leaving the EU and concentrating the UKs wealth into the hands of a small cabal of city elites and successful industrialists.[/b]
Perhaps you might like to justify your claims by showing which UKIP policies would achieve what you claim...?
They support withdrawal from the eu to save our membership fee largely, money which goes to support and develop some of europes poorest communities (some in the UK). They want to reduce welfare spending, introduce flat rate tax and cut public sector employment, these are core policies.

If you trust any politician you're a fool.


XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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FredClogs said:
Judging on the voting from Rochester it seems ukip mask might be slipping but be careful what you wish for people in the south east.
To be fair it isn't surprising that 'people in the south east' would want to get away from any party that either looks after its socialist cronies in the north while starving the south east of the cash which its net contribution provides to the economy.

Or any party which wants to concrete over what remains of the south east and overpopulate it with immigrants in order to keep the barren underpopulated Northern and Western areas of the country barren and underpopulated.

Assuming UKIP doesn't seem to want to take on the immigration issue head on it might at least be up for doing something about all the above.

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
wiggy001 said:
JBF50 said:
Telling people that all you need to do is draw a line on the map, pull up the draw bridge and all your problems will be solved - it is dangerous thinking and it is wrong.If Messrs Farage and Reckless start repatriating Poles and Greeks where will that leave the 1.4 million British citizens now living elsewhere in the European Union?An immigration debate that lacks a liberal voice, putting the positive case for a rational approach to a balanced system will be dangerous and divisive and ultimately will do harm to our economy here at home and our standing in the eyes of other countries overseas.
Can you point me to the parts of UKIP's manifesto where the statements in bold are please, as I'm struggling to find them.
Actually it is because UKIP has made it absolutely clear that it 'isn't' prepared to do that,at least in the case of the accession east European countries,which has probably lost them my vote at the general election.The fact is this country has taken in more than its fair share of immigration and now it is time to close the doors and think about reversing the process.


Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 22 November 17:18

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
JBF50 said:
No it isn't, scratch below the surface and they are a racist/right-wing hate mob.
You are clearly an ignorant idiot.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
FredClogs said:
They support withdrawal from the eu to save our membership fee largely, money which goes to support and develop some of europes poorest communities (some in the UK). They want to reduce welfare spending, introduce flat rate tax and cut public sector employment, these are core policies.

If you trust any politician you're a fool.
In the past they have proposed a flat tax with a large tax free threshold, which benefits the lowest earners the most...

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
sidicks said:
JBF50 said:
No it isn't, scratch below the surface and they are a racist/right-wing hate mob.
You are clearly an ignorant idiot.
Or possibly part of the agenda which has something to lose 'if only' UKIP really was up for closing the doors let alone reversing our long standing immigration problem.

Northern Munkee

5,354 posts

199 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
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twoblacklines said:
Northern Munkee said:
You're not suggesting that the "working class" don't work hard, and only bosses do? And I'd suggest "we live with the consequences of liblabcon policies, so won't pass policies like them"(if a little naive, hard choices need to be made, that's the reality the mess we're in) is actually a reference to the elites like Miliband, Cameron, Clegg etc, and Thornberry.... Millionaires who can buy their way out of the consequences of their policies, (education) by sending their kids to private school, (health) buy paying to go private or jump the NHS queue buy paying to see an nhs consultant in his private practice, or (housing) by living on millionaires row.

This is not about "middle class" vs "working class" people, many middle class people can't afford those things either, this is the next level up of "middle class". People who can buy their way out of the consequences of their actions. That's how out of touch they are with the "working classes" who live in the real world in the UK, not the idyll of dinner parties, exhibition openings, talking shops at the Marxist book club, and weekends in the country, 2nd houses and 2 or 3 holidays a year in Tuscany & Gstaad.

Edited by Northern Munkee on Saturday 22 November 12:24
Where I come from if you want to be upper class you work hard and get yourself to upper class, not sit around unemployed blaming the upper class for all your problems.
Begging your pardon Mas'er, but the ordinary people in the original post were all working, at least one possibly self employed (a cabby), the other quite possibly professionally qualified (in IT) save one, who was retired, a retired fireman. Moreover they are (regardless of their political persuasion) motivated to do something for their community, and country.

I'm a bit rusty on class war, but you don't work hard to get to be upper class, you're born into it or inherit it, you see the upper class and working class generally get along fine, it's usually the Bourgeois or social climbing element of the middle class that cause all the trouble, in this case the Westminster clique, with their PPE intellectual agenda, that they know what's right, and rush to get ahead whatever the cost, wrapped up as in a patina of meaningless "social justice" and "progressive" and "hard working families" empty jargon for redistribution of wealth (particularly for themselves).

I'm glad you work hard, and before you think you have me pegged, I don't think profit is a dirty word, I do think rich pay enough in taxes, and we need more entrepeneurs, they create businesses, and jobs, and the wealth to pay for stuff, and they should be rewarded for the risks they take, and be able to enjoy those fruits, just pay all the taxes you are supposed to, don't employ people on zero contracts to do it and people will work hard for the likes of you "powerfully built company director types".

Edited by Northern Munkee on Saturday 22 November 17:37

XJ Flyer

5,526 posts

129 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
sidicks said:
FredClogs said:
They support withdrawal from the eu to save our membership fee largely, money which goes to support and develop some of europes poorest communities (some in the UK). They want to reduce welfare spending, introduce flat rate tax and cut public sector employment, these are core policies.

If you trust any politician you're a fool.
In the past they have proposed a flat tax with a large tax free threshold, which benefits the lowest earners the most...
The socialists are obviously getting worried.

Why would we want to spend money we don't have on supporting so called 'poor areas of Europe'.We aren't a charity while any money we put into the system just adds to our borrowing requirement so more cuts at home.Which has been the story of our EU membership since we joined it.

NicD

3,281 posts

256 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
JBF50 said:
No it isn't, scratch below the surface and they are a racist/right-wing hate mob.
YOU need therapy!

NicD

3,281 posts

256 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
XJ Flyer said:
Why would we want to spend money we don't have on supporting so called 'poor areas of Europe'.We aren't a charity while any money we put into the system just adds to our borrowing requirement so more cuts at home.Which has been the story of our EU membership since we joined it.
Agree (strongly).

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
NicD said:
YOU need therapy!
I've just read a few of his other posts - it's obvious his post count is already higher than his IQ!!

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
sidicks said:
NicD said:
YOU need therapy!
I've just read a few of his other posts - it's obvious his post count is already higher than his IQ!!
Chelsea fan, that says it all... Calling him a 'tard is an insult to tards.

FredClogs

14,041 posts

160 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
sidicks said:
FredClogs said:
They support withdrawal from the eu to save our membership fee largely, money which goes to support and develop some of europes poorest communities (some in the UK). They want to reduce welfare spending, introduce flat rate tax and cut public sector employment, these are core policies.

If you trust any politician you're a fool.
In the past they have proposed a flat tax with a large tax free threshold, which benefits the lowest earners the most...
I don't know how you come to that conclusion.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
FredClogs said:
I don't know how you come to that conclusion.
You honestly don't understand?
loser

FredClogs

14,041 posts

160 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
sidicks said:
FredClogs said:
I don't know how you come to that conclusion.
You honestly don't understand?
loser
Yes, a flat rate tax only benefits the wealthiest, which is why only tax heavans and tin pot regimes implement it.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Saturday 22nd November 2014
quotequote all
FredClogs said:
Yes, a flat rate tax only benefits the wealthiest, which is why only tax heavans and tin pot regimes implement it.
You obviously don't understand how a tax free allowance works, nor the impact of a simple (and fairer) tax system on total tax collected.