Why the UKIP will never work....

[twoblacklines]

Einion Yrth said:

But what you think is not necessarily true, you should always bear that in mind.

Whereas what you think is always true?

[twoblacklines]

FiF said:

Why did you think that was referring to you? Because it wasn't. Something you'd like to share?

The mods have a clear view on this. Banned from volume 1 of a thread. Behave the same volume 2 then out they go on their ear. Not coming back.

Still don't see why you are getting all twitchy. Within the the rules no problem. Trouble is some can't behave.

Because you quoted me?

[powerstroke]

Foppo said:

Who are these indigenous people do they all live in caves ready to attack these hordes of foreigners.

This planet has moved on we better learn to live with each other or follow these policies of hatred.It aint working.>

well that's most Lefty's stuffed then!! they hate anyone that believes in self reliance and cooperation ..

[twoblacklines]

As for UKIP, I find it really sad that all the extremists / BNP types have come across as supporting UKIP and telling people the UKIP represents them, simply because it wants to have better control over the UK border....

Since when does stopping immigrants coming in = throwing out all non-whites which is what the BNP wants?

[NicD]

powerstroke said:

well that's most Lefty's stuffed then!! they hate anyone that believes in self reliance and cooperation ..

who are you agreeing with, and who are you attacking?
I have no idea.
I guess you agree with yourself, at least.

[XJ Flyer]

FredClogs said:

XJ Flyer said:

FredClogs said:

XJ Flyer said:

vonuber said:

sidicks said:

What have Romania and Poland got to do with British values?

My Grandad is polish and came here as a refugee after the war. He has directly contributed to how this country has evolved a s a society, as has hundreds of thousands of other poles.
So fk off.

Assuming that we aren't a stateless group then the indigenous community reserves the right to determine its own policy in its own country which includes deciding where to draw the line in how much immigration we take in.Assuming the immigrant communities don't want to respect that then maybe they are the ones who should fk off just as the Poles and the Ukrainians would say if ethnic Russians tried to determine Polish and Ukrainian national policy.

So you'd agree to the proposition of restricting the vote to indigenous peoples only?

Wrong question.The question is how do ethnic immigrant minorities get the right to determine our national immigration policy.


However assuming that we're not going to restrict immigration levels to the point where it is impossible for the immigrant communities to form electoral majorities then the question is obviously irrelevant.Assuming that is the case then it seems obvious where this is all heading.IE we become an ethnic minority in our own country governed by foreign immigrant groups in the interests of those foreign ethnic groups not ours.In which case as I've said we're eventually heading for an even worse situation than Tito's Yugoslavia.IE national suicide on the basis of handing the country over to majority immigrant interests in which we become the ethnic minority governed by them.

It was the right question and you've chosen not to answer it, instead you've rather obfuscated the point and prattled on about Yugoslavia.

Shall we try again? Would you say that someone who is not indigenous or of none indigenous parentage should be refused access to parliament, government position or any influence in deciding law/policy.

On the basis that we're discussing EU immigration allowed by the 'free movement' of 'workers' that 'movement' isn't 'supposed' to provide voting rights and therefore electoral influence in national elections/policy.

Having said that it is no surprise or coincidence that the pro immigration agenda is usually,if not always,supported and never opposed,by those of non indigenous origins in positions of power and their socialist allies.

So no under present rules there is no way to deny 'eligible' non indigenous representation in government.However that doesn't mean that I have to support the idea in the case of that representation voting on immigration policy.In view of the obvious conflict of interest which that creates,in the case of any potential government policy of closing our borders to further immigration.

[XJ Flyer]

twoblacklines said:

As for UKIP, I find it really sad that all the extremists / BNP types have come across as supporting UKIP and telling people the UKIP represents them, simply because it wants to have better control over the UK border....

Since when does stopping immigrants coming in = throwing out all non-whites which is what the BNP wants?

It is more a case of all the extremist reverse racist pro immigration socialist types trying to paint the idea of any policy of controlling immigration as a so called colour issue.

[FredClogs]

XJ Flyer said:

FredClogs said:

XJ Flyer said:

FredClogs said:

XJ Flyer said:

vonuber said:

sidicks said:

What have Romania and Poland got to do with British values?

My Grandad is polish and came here as a refugee after the war. He has directly contributed to how this country has evolved a s a society, as has hundreds of thousands of other poles.
So fk off.

Assuming that we aren't a stateless group then the indigenous community reserves the right to determine its own policy in its own country which includes deciding where to draw the line in how much immigration we take in.Assuming the immigrant communities don't want to respect that then maybe they are the ones who should fk off just as the Poles and the Ukrainians would say if ethnic Russians tried to determine Polish and Ukrainian national policy.

So you'd agree to the proposition of restricting the vote to indigenous peoples only?

Wrong question.The question is how do ethnic immigrant minorities get the right to determine our national immigration policy.


However assuming that we're not going to restrict immigration levels to the point where it is impossible for the immigrant communities to form electoral majorities then the question is obviously irrelevant.Assuming that is the case then it seems obvious where this is all heading.IE we become an ethnic minority in our own country governed by foreign immigrant groups in the interests of those foreign ethnic groups not ours.In which case as I've said we're eventually heading for an even worse situation than Tito's Yugoslavia.IE national suicide on the basis of handing the country over to majority immigrant interests in which we become the ethnic minority governed by them.

It was the right question and you've chosen not to answer it, instead you've rather obfuscated the point and prattled on about Yugoslavia.

Shall we try again? Would you say that someone who is not indigenous or of none indigenous parentage should be refused access to parliament, government position or any influence in deciding law/policy.

On the basis that we're discussing EU immigration allowed by the 'free movement' of 'workers' that 'movement' isn't 'supposed' to provide voting rights and therefore electoral influence in national elections/policy.

Having said that it is no surprise or coincidence that the pro immigration agenda is usually,if not always,supported and never opposed,by those of non indigenous origins in positions of power and their socialist allies.

So no under present rules there is no way to deny 'eligible' non indigenous representation in government.However that doesn't mean that I have to support the idea in the case of that representation voting on immigration policy.In view of the obvious conflict of interest which that creates,in the case of any potential government policy of closing our borders to further immigration.

Blimey... What about if someone had, say, a German wife, would that exclude them from a seat in government? What say you?

[NicD]

FredClogs said:

Blimey... What about if someone had, say, a German wife, would that exclude them from a seat in government? What say you?

so your answer to a well reasoned and argued text of some length and merit is this?
Blimey indeed.

[BGARK]

CamMoreRon said:

BGARK said:

CamMoreRon said:

"Not being a nationalistic xenophobe".

Are you referring the people from third world countries who refuse to integrate, if so I agree with you.

If people are genuinely refusing to integrate then they're just as bad as people who refuse to let them integrate. It can definitely go both ways!

How many British people do you know that are saying to foreign visitors, please don't integrate with us?

[Einion Yrth]

twoblacklines said:

Einion Yrth said:

But what you think is not necessarily true, you should always bear that in mind.

Whereas what you think is always true?

I doubt it.

[CamMoreRon]

BGARK said:

CamMoreRon said:

BGARK said:

CamMoreRon said:

"Not being a nationalistic xenophobe".

Are you referring the people from third world countries who refuse to integrate, if so I agree with you.

If people are genuinely refusing to integrate then they're just as bad as people who refuse to let them integrate. It can definitely go both ways!

How many British people do you know that are saying to foreign visitors, please don't integrate with us?

I know several who are horrifically bad.. do you seriously not know of any? Well done if you've managed to steer clear of them your whole life! An old ex-housemate would sit in front of the TV when the news was on and say things like "I wish all f-ing (citizens of South Asian origin) would f-ing die". His parents were both in the police force. He probably wouldn't have had the guts to say it directly to someone's face, but he definitely doesn't want "them" integrating with "us".

I'm not by any means saying this is reflective of all UKIP supporters, but it's worth noting for the record that for every one that doesn't want to integrate, there is one who doesn't want them to.

[BGARK]

CamMoreRon said:

it's worth noting for the record that for every one that doesn't want to integrate, there is one who doesn't want them to.

I grew up in a school where "people of a certain faith" were becoming the majority. They had no intention of ever integrating into the British way of life, this has become much worse over the many years since I left.

Your ratio of people who do/don't want to integrate I believe is probably seriously flawed.

[sidicks]

CamMoreRon said:

I'm not by any means saying this is reflective of all UKIP supporters, but it's worth noting for the record that for every one that doesn't want to integrate, there is one who doesn't want them to.

Where do you dream thIs bks up from??

[don4l]

CamMoreRon said:

I'm not by any means saying this is reflective of all UKIP supporters, but it's worth noting for the record that for every one that doesn't want to integrate, there is one who doesn't want them to.

What utter tosh!

I'm an immigrant. I came here in 1975(with £5.11 in my pocket). The English have treated me brilliantly.

UKIP have welcomed me with open arms. I haven't detected the faintest hint of "oh, you are a foreigner", despite my heavy accent. In fact, they have seemed to be really pleased to have a foreigner in their midst.

I get treated like royalty.


I feel very comfortable at UKIP meetings. I cannot imagine that I would feel so welcome at a Labour party meeting.

[CamMoreRon]

don4l said:

I feel very comfortable at UKIP meetings. I cannot imagine that I would feel so welcome at a Labour party meeting.

What utter tosh..

Did I say all British people hate immigrants? No. No I did not.

I said for every immigrant who doesn't want to integrate with British society, there is a nationalist who doesn't want immigrants to integrate with society. BNP.. EDL.. All that garbage. If you think we don't have racists / nationalists / xenophobes in this country then you have lived a sheltered life indeed.

[CamMoreRon]

I've lived in Essex 4 years, now. I bet I could walk through any town here and find you 10 people who don't want to see immigrants based purely on racial prejudice in 2 minutes.

[XJ Flyer]

CamMoreRon said:

I said for every immigrant who doesn't want to integrate with British society, there is a nationalist who doesn't want immigrants to integrate with society. BNP.. EDL.. All that garbage. If you think we don't have racists / nationalists / xenophobes in this country then you have lived a sheltered life indeed.

The real racists are those who want to keep the scam of mass immigration going to keep labour costs down or to further their socialist agenda and then want to deal with the symptoms of that by trying to integrate totally alien communities.When the fact is even they know that history shows it doesn't work.

As for nationalists until the socialists have succeeded in removing the idea of the nation state then we are all nationalists.Get used to it because the socialists are never going to be allowed to do that any time soon.Even when as in the case of Hitler and the SNP they hide under the nationalist banner themselves.IE Racist read Socialist.

[XJ Flyer]

CamMoreRon said:

I've lived in Essex 4 years, now. I bet I could walk through any town here and find you 10 people who don't want to see immigrants based purely on racial prejudice in 2 minutes.

Being that you've obviously set yourself up as judge and jury,to decide who is and who isn't a 'racist',based on your own obviously socialist integrationist ideology,that isn't surprising.

The fact is 'multi' culturalism by definition means the opposite of integration.IE more than one and all different according to their own.Or to put it another way the antithesis of socialism.

[XJ Flyer]

BGARK said:

CamMoreRon said:

it's worth noting for the record that for every one that doesn't want to integrate, there is one who doesn't want them to.

I grew up in a school where "people of a certain faith" were becoming the majority. They had no intention of ever integrating into the British way of life, this has become much worse over the many years since I left.

Your ratio of people who do/don't want to integrate I believe is probably seriously flawed.

The issue isn't one of integration it is all about numbers in calling a halt before communities like little Italy in New York turn into self governing colonial enclaves and then rule the State etc etc.IE Italian/Asian etc etc first American/'British' by convenience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Italy,_Manhatt...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/immigration_Act_of_19...

Edited by XJ Flyer on Thursday 27th November 23:27

Edited by XJ Flyer on Thursday 27th November 23:34