Why the UKIP will never work....

[Nohedes]

This thread really is quite depressing to me and serves as a useful reminder that I really must stop wasting time looking at PH.

[DeanR32]

don4l said:

CamMoreRon said:

I'm not by any means saying this is reflective of all UKIP supporters, but it's worth noting for the record that for every one that doesn't want to integrate, there is one who doesn't want them to.

What utter tosh!

I'm an immigrant. I came here in 1975(with £5.11 in my pocket). The English have treated me brilliantly.

UKIP have welcomed me with open arms. I haven't detected the faintest hint of "oh, you are a foreigner", despite my heavy accent. In fact, they have seemed to be really pleased to have a foreigner in their midst.

I get treated like royalty.


I feel very comfortable at UKIP meetings. I cannot imagine that I would feel so welcome at a Labour party meeting.

Where abouts are you from Don4l? I bet if I walked into one of these ukip get together, I'd get a few double takes with my trendy beard (my missus said it's trendy anyway)

Edited by DeanR32 on Friday 28th November 07:44

[DeanR32]

XJ Flyer said:

CamMoreRon said:

I've lived in Essex 4 years, now. I bet I could walk through any town here and find you 10 people who don't want to see immigrants based purely on racial prejudice in 2 minutes.

Being that you've obviously set yourself up as judge and jury,to decide who is and who isn't a 'racist',based on your own obviously socialist integrationist ideology,that isn't surprising.

The fact is 'multi' culturalism by definition means the opposite of integration.IE more than one and all different according to their own.Or to put it another way the antithesis of socialism.

I've lived in Essex for 20 years and been alive 33. I can say, based on past and present experiences that what Cammoron is saying is very easy to believe. Where in Essex are you? I've experienced racism aimed at myself 200 yards from my doorstep only last Christmas. Infact I experienced it on my doorstep in April!

I was lucky I could run the 100m in 11.5 seconds in my teens. It sure saved me from a couple of ass whoopings!

[FiF]

twoblacklines said:

FiF said:

Why did you think that was referring to you? Because it wasn't. Something you'd like to share?

The mods have a clear view on this. Banned from volume 1 of a thread. Behave the same volume 2 then out they go on their ear. Not coming back.

Still don't see why you are getting all twitchy. Within the the rules no problem. Trouble is some can't behave.

Because you quoted me?

Nope didn't quote anybody. It was a general comment. So try again.

[Axionknight]

Having grown up and spent most of my early life in West Yorkshire, spending a lot of time in cities such as Bradford and towns such as Burnley in nearby Lancashire I can say, with 100% confidence in my own experiences, that integration into British society is not on the cards for the majority of the areas population, at all.

[Mrr T]

XJ Flyer said:

On the basis that we're discussing EU immigration allowed by the 'free movement' of 'workers' that 'movement' isn't 'supposed' to provide voting rights and therefore electoral influence in national elections/policy.

Having said that it is no surprise or coincidence that the pro immigration agenda is usually,if not always,supported and never opposed,by those of non indigenous origins in positions of power and their socialist allies.

So no under present rules there is no way to deny 'eligible' non indigenous representation in government.However that doesn't mean that I have to support the idea in the case of that representation voting on immigration policy.In view of the obvious conflict of interest which that creates,in the case of any potential government policy of closing our borders to further immigration.

Only XJ can post with confidence on a topic on which he a) clearly knows nothing and b) could not even be bothered to do any research.

So the correct answer is that EU immigrants have no rights to vote in UK Parliamentary elections, only local and EU Parliament elections, unless, they have British citizenship.

This requires 5 years residency unless married to a UK citizen (when its 3 years) and a large fee.

[CamMoreRon]

XJ Flyer said:

CamMoreRon said:

I've lived in Essex 4 years, now. I bet I could walk through any town here and find you 10 people who don't want to see immigrants based purely on racial prejudice in 2 minutes.

Being that you've obviously set yourself up as judge and jury,to decide who is and who isn't a 'racist',based on your own obviously socialist integrationist ideology,that isn't surprising.

The fact is 'multi' culturalism by definition means the opposite of integration.IE more than one and all different according to their own.Or to put it another way the antithesis of socialism.

Hahaha! Thanks for that.. I needed a good laugh this morning.

I don't look at certain people and go "racist" / "not racist" because you never know from appearances; such things, however, become immediately obvious when you talk to people.

I think you're confused about your idea of Socialism, and of multiculturalism. A multicultural society means many different cultures integrated in to one society, not a jumble of separate societies each with their own different cultures.

[Esseesse]

CamMoreRon said:

I think you're confused about your idea of Socialism, and of multiculturalism. A multicultural society means many different cultures integrated in to one society, not a jumble of separate societies each with their own different cultures.

The reality of multiculturalism is segregated societies.

[JustAnotherLogin]

Esseesse said:

CamMoreRon said:

I think you're confused about your idea of Socialism, and of multiculturalism. A multicultural society means many different cultures integrated in to one society, not a jumble of separate societies each with their own different cultures.

The reality of multiculturalism is segregated societies.

Really?
I work with people of several different cultures. I find it interesting to experience the differences in the cultures, e.g. very different style of weddings. But we can be friends, go to dinner together.

If you are hostile (even subconsciously) to the other cultures, then you are less likely to be "invited in" and thus will see them as separate societies. Thus your prejudices will be re-inforced.

[BGARK]

JustAnotherLogin said:

I find it interesting to experience the differences in the cultures

So do most people, that's why they travel or go on holiday.

[JustAnotherLogin]

BGARK said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

I find it interesting to experience the differences in the cultures

So do most people, that's why they travel or go on holiday.

Many people also like to experience different foods at home

Even racists tend to admit that the variety and quality of food in the UK has improved through immigration. No reason why we cannot enjoy some more of the disparate cultures as well:
Arts
Music
Literature
Sport
Or even if we don't enjoy it, at least not try and prevent others from enjoying it by insisting it is subordinated by the "British culture" - which ignores the fact that British culture is already an assimilation of bits from many other nations

[CamMoreRon]

BGARK said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

I find it interesting to experience the differences in the cultures

So do most people, that's why they travel or go on holiday.

Right.. and when you go on holiday, do you expect to be greeted with hostility, or warmth? Welcomed, or avoided?

[Esseesse]

JustAnotherLogin said:

BGARK said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

I find it interesting to experience the differences in the cultures

So do most people, that's why they travel or go on holiday.

Many people also like to experience different foods at home

You experiencing what you previously would perceive as a foreign food at home is not multiculturalism, it's a monoculture. I quite agree with you that experiencing new cultures is interesting, but having the opportunity to share in them is part of building a new shared culture. Having a curry is now culturally British. This is what you get when immigration goes well, 'sharia controlled zones' (a distinctly different, separated culture (multiculturalism)) is what you get when it's going badly.

[XJ Flyer]

DeanR32 said:

XJ Flyer said:

CamMoreRon said:

I've lived in Essex 4 years, now. I bet I could walk through any town here and find you 10 people who don't want to see immigrants based purely on racial prejudice in 2 minutes.

Being that you've obviously set yourself up as judge and jury,to decide who is and who isn't a 'racist',based on your own obviously socialist integrationist ideology,that isn't surprising.

The fact is 'multi' culturalism by definition means the opposite of integration.IE more than one and all different according to their own.Or to put it another way the antithesis of socialism.

I've lived in Essex for 20 years and been alive 33. I can say, based on past and present experiences that what Cammoron is saying is very easy to believe. Where in Essex are you? I've experienced racism aimed at myself 200 yards from my doorstep only last Christmas. Infact I experienced it on my doorstep in April!

I was lucky I could run the 100m in 11.5 seconds in my teens. It sure saved me from a couple of ass whoopings!

What you've described there can and does often apply wherever there are different ethnic groups being put together anywhere in the world throughout history.As I've posted above the immigration history of the US is a good example.Contrary to all the PC socialist propaganda people ( rightly ) like to keep to their own ethnic groups and communities and wherever those fault lines are blurred by those pushing the integration agenda that's when there is usually trouble.That applies wether it be the Italian community and the Irish amongst others in New York or the Asian and indigenous community in Middlesex etc.

As such yes I've also experienced similar in my case it was many years ago having had to leave the peaceful world of the indigenous community I was part of and had grown up in in Surrey to work and attend further education in Middlesex.In that case it was the indigenous community who were/are the aliens in what the Asian community considered its place and it was us,not them,who were the victims of so called 'racial abuse'.Lets just say I learn't quick what immigration is all about and contrary to the socialist dream and propaganda the idea of ethnic integration when mixed with large scale immigration is like pouring petrol on a fire.Its called human nature and it is why nature put different ethnic groups in different parts of the world.If you really must then try to go against all that then trust me you need to do it in limited controlled numbers and you have to recognise and respect the differences between the different communities by not trying to 'integrate' them.

[XJ Flyer]

Axionknight said:

Having grown up and spent most of my early life in West Yorkshire, spending a lot of time in cities such as Bradford and towns such as Burnley in nearby Lancashire I can say, with 100% confidence in my own experiences, that integration into British society is not on the cards for the majority of the areas population, at all.

Why would you expect a totally different ethnic commumity and culture to have to 'integrate'.The problem in this case being the numbers which have been allowed in causing localised excessively large immigrant majorities.

[don4l]

DeanR32 said:

Where abouts are you from Don4l? I bet if I walked into one of these ukip get together, I'd get a few double takes with my trendy beard (my missus said it's trendy anyway)

Edited by DeanR32 on Friday 28th November 07:44

I'm on the Surrey/Hampshire border - in Michael Gove's constituency.

[XJ Flyer]

Mrr T said:

XJ Flyer said:

On the basis that we're discussing EU immigration allowed by the 'free movement' of 'workers' that 'movement' isn't 'supposed' to provide voting rights and therefore electoral influence in national elections/policy.

Having said that it is no surprise or coincidence that the pro immigration agenda is usually,if not always,supported and never opposed,by those of non indigenous origins in positions of power and their socialist allies.

So no under present rules there is no way to deny 'eligible' non indigenous representation in government.However that doesn't mean that I have to support the idea in the case of that representation voting on immigration policy.In view of the obvious conflict of interest which that creates,in the case of any potential government policy of closing our borders to further immigration.

Only XJ can post with confidence on a topic on which he a) clearly knows nothing and b) could not even be bothered to do any research.

So the correct answer is that EU immigrants have no rights to vote in UK Parliamentary elections, only local and EU Parliament elections, unless, they have British citizenship.

This requires 5 years residency unless married to a UK citizen (when its 3 years) and a large fee.

Which is what I said.In which case,as I said,what gives the EU immigrant community allowed in under EU freedom of movement,the right to have any say whatsoever in our national immigration policy.While,as I said,the issue of non indigenous MP's,especially those elected by and representing large immigrant communities,being able to decide immigration policy,is an obvious conflict of interest in which case they shouldn't be allowed to vote on that issue.

[don4l]

So, this thread is titled "Why the UKIP will never work....".


Anyone who listened to Cameron's speech can see that UKIP IS working.

[FredClogs]

Culture (infact the entirety of human experience) expands, conquers, conglomerates, fractures and continues in that cycle ad infinitum.

The idea that anything is ever going to stop and remain in a stable no changing state is terrifying, almost as terrifying as the people who wish it.

There is no multi or mono cultural paradigm, there is just culture expanding, conglomerating and fracturing - two steps forward one step back, it's evolution.

[XJ Flyer]

Esseesse said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

BGARK said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

I find it interesting to experience the differences in the cultures

So do most people, that's why they travel or go on holiday.

Many people also like to experience different foods at home

You experiencing what you previously would perceive as a foreign food at home is not multiculturalism, it's a monoculture. I quite agree with you that experiencing new cultures is interesting, but having the opportunity to share in them is part of building a new shared culture. Having a curry is now culturally British. This is what you get when immigration goes well, 'sharia controlled zones' (a distinctly different, separated culture (multiculturalism)) is what you get when it's going badly.

No Sharia is all part of the same culture that brought the food assuming that is anyone prefers curried lamb/goat to fillet steak and chips or roast beef and Yorkshire pudding.