Why the UKIP will never work....
Discussion
Yazar said:
XJ Flyer said:
integration doesn't work segregation does
Aside from the volumes question, are not all other immigration issues caused by the lack of integration? If, for example, you bring in thousands of poor, uneducated villagers from another country, like we have, and stick them all together, how can they learn to raise their standards to the 1st world and learn from us? Segregation is exactly why many migrants survive fine in the UK without ever speaking English and stick to the ways they know.
To address your current topic for example- In Africa there are a high number of single parents, this culture still remains in the western world black communities generations on.
IE ethnic segregation along the lines of all the different ethnic cultures/societies is the natural state of human nature and the true meaning of multi culturalism.Which is why the USA,being the biggest clearest historic example we've got,shows that 'segregation',in which all the different ethnic communities stay different, historically worked/works and is the definition of 'multi' culturalism.Whereas integration isn't and doesn't.
No African Americans allowed or welcome taking part in these events for example.No big deal it is called 'multi' culturalism' the definition of which is segregation not integration.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_cipkS91_w
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX9nY1w7qm0
The idea of integration being a socialist idea and a corruption of that proven method of settling large immigrant communities.By trying to turn the 'multi' 'societal' 'component' of 'multi' 'culturalism' into the contradiction of 'multi culturalism' in a 'singular' 'society'.Which as PC Blakelock and Lee Rigby to the copper involved in the recent shooting in the US amongst many others,throughout history could tell you,doesn't/won't work.
In either case there is a point where too much immigration and/or trying to settle too many immigrants and immigrant communities,in too small an area,causes societal destabilisation.Especially if/when those different immigrant communities turn hostile against the indigenous community or each other.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 29th November 21:08
Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 29th November 21:34
JustAnotherLogin said:
Scuffers said:
Problem is no matter how you shake it, 80%+ of violent crime there is perpetrated by black youths.
It's extremely hard to be ethically blind when the facts on the ground are not.
Where?It's extremely hard to be ethically blind when the facts on the ground are not.
Not in the UK I don't think
I was quoting the american police chief from where the rioting is currently occurring.
FiF said:
don4l said:
vonuber said:
don4l said:
I was under the impression that you were a hydrologist... and that you contributed to the flooding in the Somerset Levels.
You are completely wrong then. I am a civil engineer specialising in flooding and drainage. I have nothing to do with anything in Somerset apart from trying to add some informed opinion to the debate, which often seems to be a complete waste of time on pistonheads.At the risk of being wrong again, I presume that you have a degree.
May I ask what subject you studied, and which university you attended?
I'll be completely open about the reasons for my question. I have a strong suspicion that EU regulations are influencing university courses.
Also just to add he kept his temper when confronted with ill mannered abuse like we see on these threads.
Edited by FiF on Saturday 29th November 20:39
I have no doubt that vonuber is entirely honest. I also have no doubt that he is well educated and intelligent.
I'll also agree that he did very well to keep his temper in the face of some very hostile posts. In fact, I might have been guilty of making some hostile posts.
However, something is very wrong when educated people tell you that clearing drains won't help to get rid of water.
I had a blocked sewer a couple of weeks ago. Apparently, tree roots had found their way into my drain.
The solution was to unblock the sewer, and cut the roots.
Vonuber tells us that we should let the drain get blocked and plant some trees upstairs in the bathroom.
That doesn't work.
With respect that's a really crap analogy.
Clearly for the levels it's both, do the work to help clear any floodwater away and if it's possible to slow down or moderate the rate that water comes down from the hills then do that too.
Anyway we are so far off topic I'm leaving it here if that's ok.
Clearly for the levels it's both, do the work to help clear any floodwater away and if it's possible to slow down or moderate the rate that water comes down from the hills then do that too.
Anyway we are so far off topic I'm leaving it here if that's ok.
vonuber said:
You do realise that your posting comes across as unnecessarily condescending and antagonistic? It's like you are deliberately trying to get people annoyed and rise to your bait.
You do realise that when you make claims like UKIP policies are contemptible (with reference to immigration) without explaining what you mean by that, you are likely to receive a robust response as the natural conclusion is the usual 'UKIP' are racist nonsense.It appears that you believe that we should allow uncontrolled immigration into this country and you cannot see any possible problem with that.
If that is you opinion, I think you are mad!
If not, perhaps you can explain yourself rather than make vague accusations...
vonuber said:
I understand perfectly all these things - I can't see the benefit in allowing certain sections of the Pakistani community to come here bringing their frankly horrendous customs and practices to this country. However, this is obviously not all Pakistanis.
However, as I have stated - under UKIP policies some of my grandparents would not have been allowed to settle - despite their subsequent future benefit to this country.
That makes you sound like the racist, although you've not explained how you will differentiate between the different types, yet you (apparently) don't want to differentiate between other nationalities.However, as I have stated - under UKIP policies some of my grandparents would not have been allowed to settle - despite their subsequent future benefit to this country.
Your opinions don't even seem to be consistent with each other...!
Scuffers said:
JustAnotherLogin said:
Scuffers said:
Problem is no matter how you shake it, 80%+ of violent crime there is perpetrated by black youths.
It's extremely hard to be ethically blind when the facts on the ground are not.
Where?It's extremely hard to be ethically blind when the facts on the ground are not.
Not in the UK I don't think
I was quoting the american police chief from where the rioting is currently occurring.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 29th November 21:55
don4l said:
I agree.
I have no doubt that vonuber is entirely honest. I also have no doubt that he is well educated and intelligent.
I'll also agree that he did very well to keep his temper in the face of some very hostile posts. In fact, I might have been guilty of making some hostile posts.
However, something is very wrong when educated people tell you that clearing drains won't help to get rid of water.
I had a blocked sewer a couple of weeks ago. Apparently, tree roots had found their way into my drain.
The solution was to unblock the sewer, and cut the roots.
Vonuber tells us that we should let the drain get blocked and plant some trees upstairs in the bathroom.
That doesn't work.
There's a difference between clearing drains and dredging a river. For what it is worth, everything I design is generally on the basis that maintenance won't be undertaken as it generally never is - therefore I like to be more conservative in design and allow for that little bit extra.I have no doubt that vonuber is entirely honest. I also have no doubt that he is well educated and intelligent.
I'll also agree that he did very well to keep his temper in the face of some very hostile posts. In fact, I might have been guilty of making some hostile posts.
However, something is very wrong when educated people tell you that clearing drains won't help to get rid of water.
I had a blocked sewer a couple of weeks ago. Apparently, tree roots had found their way into my drain.
The solution was to unblock the sewer, and cut the roots.
Vonuber tells us that we should let the drain get blocked and plant some trees upstairs in the bathroom.
That doesn't work.
Oh and to answer your other question - Civil Engineering (Bachelors) & Water Engineering (Masters) - both from University of Birmingham over a decade ago.
Scuffers said:
JustAnotherLogin said:
Scuffers said:
Problem is no matter how you shake it, 80%+ of violent crime there is perpetrated by black youths.
It's extremely hard to be ethically blind when the facts on the ground are not.
Where?It's extremely hard to be ethically blind when the facts on the ground are not.
Not in the UK I don't think
I was quoting the american police chief from where the rioting is currently occurring.
As a matter of interest, what job do you do? I hope for your sake it is nothing that requires communication skills.
Edited by JustAnotherLogin on Saturday 29th November 23:18
Yazar said:
XJ Flyer said:
who then by necessity found myself being of the 'wrong' ( indigenous ) culture,
interested to hear more about this part?To work,and as part of that job the need to attend further education,in another recent London Borough Borough,in what was Middlesex,with a very different high Asian immigrant demographic.It was during the course of that further education where I became very aware of the friction which existed in that area between that Asian immigrant community and the indigenous one.It was also one of the reasons which made me re appraise my ( previous ) socialist views,in this case regarding the issue of ethnic integration.
The moral of that experience being that it is often very easy for those living in still largely indigenous demographic parts of the country to totally misunderstand the issues which apply in areas of the country which have been subjected to relatively high levels of immigration.In which case,the understanding,that 'multi culturalism' in reality means the natural ( and contrary to the socialist propaganda not forced ) segregation which defines that term,becomes much clearer.In the case of that part of Middlesex,like others around the country such as the Midlands and West Yorkdshire for example,or the inner and also now outer areas of South and West London etc that translates as the term White/Indigenous Flight.Or sometimes the opposite,or in fact any type of ethnic re adjustment, in other areas.Which is actually no big deal and in reality is just that process of natural ethnic segregation taking place and which,as I've said,is the real/true meaning of 'multi culturalism'.
While exactly the same issues have applied historically in those parts of America which have also been subject to high levels of immigration.In which case it is very rare to find anywhere where it can truly be said that ethnic integration,as opposed to segregation along ethnic lines,works.Which is why America ( and to an extent Canada ) even to date generally has different areas made up of different demographics along ethnic lines.
As history shows the real problems start when immigration isn't controlled in a way that recognises the issue of numbers and when the socialist idea of forced ethnic integration is applied anywhere in the world.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Sunday 30th November 02:11
Edited by XJ Flyer on Sunday 30th November 02:13
JustAnotherLogin said:
So you post on a thread about UKIP (and thus implicitly the UK), without quoting the post to which you were replying, with no reference to a source, and call someone who is just skim reading stupid for not guessing correctly to which of the previous posts you were replying.
As a matter of interest, what job do you do? I hope for your sake it is nothing that requires communication skills.
LOL!As a matter of interest, what job do you do? I hope for your sake it is nothing that requires communication skills.
I was commenting on the post above:
CamMoreRon said:
You mean you aren't prepared to listen to something that could change the way you think.
You're wrong. You really need to start looking in to some of the heavy-handed / excessive / targeted policing that goes on in black communities over in the 'States. You're making the standard mistake of seeing high crime in "black areas" as the cause and heavy-handed policing as the result, but the problem is massively more complex than that. Some "socialist" "propaganda" videos would do you good.
(BTW you still don't know what "socialist" means)
Note the comment is about policing in the states.You're wrong. You really need to start looking in to some of the heavy-handed / excessive / targeted policing that goes on in black communities over in the 'States. You're making the standard mistake of seeing high crime in "black areas" as the cause and heavy-handed policing as the result, but the problem is massively more complex than that. Some "socialist" "propaganda" videos would do you good.
(BTW you still don't know what "socialist" means)
Look, I know this forum stuff can be hard to follow, but please at least try.
too many on PH skim-read then make themselves look stupid with posts like yours.
Jesus I skim read and it was patently obvious even reading it while shaving, drinking a coffee and negotiating the M25* that the comment referred to the USA.
It ain't scuffers who looked stupid there. Perhaps it was just another oik along looking to create an argument over nothing which is a distinct possibility.
See I didn't quote anybody and it should be rather clear to what is being referenced.
It ain't scuffers who looked stupid there. Perhaps it was just another oik along looking to create an argument over nothing which is a distinct possibility.
See I didn't quote anybody and it should be rather clear to what is being referenced.
- *Some of this may not be true. Hyperbole matters for the giggle.
XJ Flyer said:
Just like the similar issues we've had here 'targeted' in this case means 'police',regardless of their colour,targeting 'criminals' who just happen to be black.
No, there is a difference between targeting and policing. Stop & search = targeting, search on response to a call-out = policing. A lot of these "criminals" are non-violent minor drug offenders (a bag of weed / a joint) who have been targeted specifically for fitting a certain profile.XJ Flyer said:
It is obviously the so called black communities who then want to turn that into a colour issue to suit their own agenda. Which in this case is the contradictory idea that they want to 'integrate' with the so called 'white' community but they still live in enclaves..
Do they have a choice? Ghettos & projects were created specifically to house black people. The white middle+ classes all fled city centres for the suburbs while the black lower class had to stay behind - the enclaves were created for them. These "enclaves" were rife with poverty by definition, as they were created to house people who couldn't afford to live anywhere else, and with poverty often comes drugs & crime. XJ Flyer said:
..and they don't want to be policed by 'white' coppers who I'm sure given the choice don't want to police the black community and are quite happy with the idea of enclaves which reflect the two different cultures too.
Yes, you're quite right! Many white American policemen are racists too.XJ Flyer said:
In which case the answer is obvious. Integration doesn't work segregation does which just then leaves the question of black policing of black areas to keep everyone happy. Just as the fact that there is a historically large Irish police representation in certain parts of America where there were/are large Irish enclaves is no coincidence.
Wrong. Segregation is what has CAUSED the problems. It cannot also be the solution.XJ Flyer said:
As for me I know exactly what socialist ideology means in terms of its ethnic integrationist agenda because I was one before I knew better.
You mean you were white middle class and moved to an area with a strong Indian population? Well guess what.. I was too. I grew up in a very white middle class town and moved to an area where there are a lot of 2nd/3rd/etc gen Pakistani immigrants. On a couple of occasions I experienced first hand some anti "indegenous" attitudes and pretty intense (and at the time quite scary) racism. However, that didn't make me thing the country was being overrun with white-hating immigrants / sons of immigrants, it just made me think those particular people were a
holes. If we were to take all British Pakistanis and segregate them - as per your desire - I don't quite think that will solve the problem.BGARK said:
King said:
said: Statistics show that the vast majority of sexual crimes are committed by males against females. According to these statistics you represent a constant risk to the 30 million females living in the UK as long as you remain male. The facts on the ground suggest you require gender reassignment surgery in order to mitigate any further risk.
Have you looked at the USA statistics for who (as a percentile of population) is responsible for most rapes and violent crime. the trend hasn't changed much in 50 years.(The clue is in the 'UK' part of UKIP, it isn't called USIP).
Have you volunteered for the chemical castration yet? There are respectable British women (and sheep) awaiting your decision with baited breath...
mrpurple said:
And there was me thinking these forums were for people wanting sensible debates.
Don't worry your shiny little purple head, it's called banter.Do you think it's 'sensible' to quote US crime stats when discussing the UK and UKIP?
If you do think US stats are relevant, please explain why.
King said:
said:FiF said:
King said:
said: There are respectable British women (and sheep) awaiting your decision with baited breath...
Perhaps they should consider investing in a bottle or two of Listerine or other similar product. Btw it's bated breath, as in short for abated.
Of course you may mean baited, hence the reference to Listerine. HTH.
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