Why the UKIP will never work....
Discussion
sidicks said:
FredClogs said:
Yes, a flat rate tax only benefits the wealthiest, which is why only tax heavans and tin pot regimes implement it.
You obviously don't understand how a tax free allowance works, nor the impact of a simple (and fairer) tax system on total tax collected.
sidicks said:
FredClogs said:
Yes, a flat rate tax only benefits the wealthiest, which is why only tax heavans and tin pot regimes implement it.
You obviously don't understand how a tax free allowance works, nor the impact of a simple (and fairer) tax system on total tax collected.Show your workings, there is a reason why flat rate taxes are the reserve of ex soviet countries, tax havens and military junta, that's because they make the rich richer and distort the meaning of fair in favour of the highest earners.
FredClogs said:
Eh? You care to explain rather than just revert to petty minded insults? All flat taxes are regressive, it doesn't matter what the personal allowance is, everyone gets it.
As above, you clearly don't know what a tax free allowance is or what regressive means.FredClogs said:
Show your workings, there is a reason why flat rate taxes are the reserve of ex soviet countries, tax havens and military junta, that's because they make the rich richer and distort the meaning of fair in favour of the highest earners.
You do the math...
FredClogs said:
sidicks said:
FredClogs said:
They support withdrawal from the eu to save our membership fee largely, money which goes to support and develop some of europes poorest communities (some in the UK). They want to reduce welfare spending, introduce flat rate tax and cut public sector employment, these are core policies.
If you trust any politician you're a fool.
In the past they have proposed a flat tax with a large tax free threshold, which benefits the lowest earners the most...If you trust any politician you're a fool.
Having read some of your other posts, I now feel that you might really believe what you wrote.
The education system in this country is really buggered.
The UK Independence Party has said it would cut income tax from 40p to 35p for people earning up to £55,000.
At its party conference, UKIP will also promised to raise to £13,500 the amount people can earn before paying any income tax.
Under UKIP's plans, everyone earning between about £44,000 and £55,000 would pay income tax at 35p. Those earning more will pay 40p, with the additional rate scrapped.
If you can find reference to a 'flat tax rate' in there, you are worthy of an opinion.
At its party conference, UKIP will also promised to raise to £13,500 the amount people can earn before paying any income tax.
Under UKIP's plans, everyone earning between about £44,000 and £55,000 would pay income tax at 35p. Those earning more will pay 40p, with the additional rate scrapped.
If you can find reference to a 'flat tax rate' in there, you are worthy of an opinion.
sidicks said:
FredClogs said:
Eh? You care to explain rather than just revert to petty minded insults? All flat taxes are regressive, it doesn't matter what the personal allowance is, everyone gets it.
As above, you clearly don't know what a tax free allowance is or what regressive means.FredClogs said:
Show your workings, there is a reason why flat rate taxes are the reserve of ex soviet countries, tax havens and military junta, that's because they make the rich richer and distort the meaning of fair in favour of the highest earners.
You do the math...If you need a total bonkers lefty look up Mark sewoka the union guy a total mong like our clogs.
NicD said:
The UK Independence Party has said it would cut income tax from 40p to 35p for people earning up to £55,000.
At its party conference, UKIP will also promised to raise to £13,500 the amount people can earn before paying any income tax.
Under UKIP's plans, everyone earning between about £44,000 and £55,000 would pay income tax at 35p. Those earning more will pay 40p, with the additional rate scrapped.
If you can find reference to a 'flat tax rate' in there, you are worthy of an opinion.
Oh well fair play, I thought they wanted to go down the flat rate route, I must admit I'm not up to date with there manifesto pledges, do you have a link? seems a few people on here would be daft enough to follow them down the flat rate route though.At its party conference, UKIP will also promised to raise to £13,500 the amount people can earn before paying any income tax.
Under UKIP's plans, everyone earning between about £44,000 and £55,000 would pay income tax at 35p. Those earning more will pay 40p, with the additional rate scrapped.
If you can find reference to a 'flat tax rate' in there, you are worthy of an opinion.
How will they finance these tax cuts?
NicD said:
The UK Independence Party has said it would cut income tax from 40p to 35p for people earning up to £55,000.
At its party conference, UKIP will also promised to raise to £13,500 the amount people can earn before paying any income tax.
Under UKIP's plans, everyone earning between about £44,000 and £55,000 would pay income tax at 35p. Those earning more will pay 40p, with the additional rate scrapped.
If you can find reference to a 'flat tax rate' in there, you are worthy of an opinion.
Someone did point out that it used to be UKIP policy for a flat rate tax, but that was one of the policies swept away when Farage called the old manifesto ridiculous and threw it in the bin.At its party conference, UKIP will also promised to raise to £13,500 the amount people can earn before paying any income tax.
Under UKIP's plans, everyone earning between about £44,000 and £55,000 would pay income tax at 35p. Those earning more will pay 40p, with the additional rate scrapped.
If you can find reference to a 'flat tax rate' in there, you are worthy of an opinion.
So it is now perhaps irrelevant, but flat rate taxes do benefit the rich more than the progressive taxes of virtually any mature, developed country.
As to the current policy, well of course no one suffers under the proposed new tax regime because UKIP have only promised tax cuts. Of course that does leave the problem of how to balance the budget with all the other plans (and no, cutting foreign aid, EU contributions and HS2 won't do it). So at the moment it is all promises of milk and honey without a costed budget to support it. Anyone can produce a tax plan that people think is good with that level of detail.
FredClogs said:
Oh well fair play, I thought they wanted to go down the flat rate route, I must admit I'm not up to date with there manifesto pledges, do you have a link? seems a few people on here would be daft enough to follow them down the flat rate route though.
How will they finance these tax cuts?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29368838How will they finance these tax cuts?
Simple Google
No idea how they plan to pay for them but frankly, for a nascent party like UKIP, budget policies are more about intent than detail.
FredClogs said:
Oh well fair play, I thought they wanted to go down the flat rate route, I must admit I'm not up to date with there manifesto pledges, do you have a link? seems a few people on here would be daft enough to follow them down the flat rate route though.
How will they finance these tax cuts?
Still waiting for your explanation as to how s flat tax system plus tax free allowance is regressive...How will they finance these tax cuts?
JustAnotherLogin said:
Someone did point out that it used to be UKIP policy for a flat rate tax, but that was one of the policies swept away when Farage called the old manifesto ridiculous and threw it in the bin.
So it is now perhaps irrelevant, but flat rate taxes do benefit the rich more than the progressive taxes of virtually any mature, developed country.
As to the current policy, well of course no one suffers under the proposed new tax regime because UKIP have only promised tax cuts. Of course that does leave the problem of how to balance the budget with all the other plans (and no, cutting foreign aid, EU contributions and HS2 won't do it). So at the moment it is all promises of milk and honey without a costed budget to support it. Anyone can produce a tax plan that people think is good with that level of detail.
Are you for real?So it is now perhaps irrelevant, but flat rate taxes do benefit the rich more than the progressive taxes of virtually any mature, developed country.
As to the current policy, well of course no one suffers under the proposed new tax regime because UKIP have only promised tax cuts. Of course that does leave the problem of how to balance the budget with all the other plans (and no, cutting foreign aid, EU contributions and HS2 won't do it). So at the moment it is all promises of milk and honey without a costed budget to support it. Anyone can produce a tax plan that people think is good with that level of detail.
You are saying that we cannot cut taxes by cutting spending?
PH needs to introduce an IQ test as part of the registration process.
sidicks said:
FredClogs said:
Oh well fair play, I thought they wanted to go down the flat rate route, I must admit I'm not up to date with there manifesto pledges, do you have a link? seems a few people on here would be daft enough to follow them down the flat rate route though.
How will they finance these tax cuts?
Still waiting for your explanation as to how s flat tax system plus tax free allowance is regressive...How will they finance these tax cuts?
Idiots struggle to accept that low tax equals more enterprise and tax take and a flat tax would be a simple and fair system..
Edited by powerstroke on Saturday 22 November 19:51
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this…
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing
The fifth would pay $1
The sixth would pay $3
The seventh would pay $7
The eighth would pay $12
The ninth would pay $18
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59
So, that’s what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball.
“Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20″. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men ? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?
The bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.
And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,”but he got $10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”
“That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing
The fifth would pay $1
The sixth would pay $3
The seventh would pay $7
The eighth would pay $12
The ninth would pay $18
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59
So, that’s what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball.
“Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20″. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men ? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?
The bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.
And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,”but he got $10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”
“That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
Einion Yrth said:
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this…
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing
The fifth would pay $1
The sixth would pay $3
The seventh would pay $7
The eighth would pay $12
The ninth would pay $18
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59
So, that’s what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball.
“Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20?. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men ? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?
The bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.
And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,”but he got $10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”
“That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
The real question for the Communist version of Capitalism being why would the 'poorest' be so poor that they need state handouts paid from the tax system,which they supposedly pay nothing for,to top up their low wages.The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing
The fifth would pay $1
The sixth would pay $3
The seventh would pay $7
The eighth would pay $12
The ninth would pay $18
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59
So, that’s what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball.
“Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20?. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men ? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?
The bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.
And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,”but he got $10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”
“That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
As for the poorest paying nothing as far as I know minimum wage doesn't excuse anyone from having to pay VAT and duty on petrol and car costs to get to work for example ( or beer ).All of which is paid at the same rate from the poorest to the richest.
Now we just wait for the 'Capitalists' to say that the ordinary workers shouldn't earn enough to drive a car to work they'll have to use a bicycle just like their communist Chinese competitors.
XJ Flyer said:
The real question for the Communist version of Capitalism being why would the 'poorest' be so poor that they need state handouts paid from the tax system,which they supposedly pay nothing for,to top up their low wages.
As for the poorest paying nothing as far as I know minimum wage doesn't excuse anyone from having to pay VAT and duty on petrol and car costs to get to work for example ( or beer ).All of which is paid at the same rate from the poorest to the richest.
Now we just wait for the 'Capitalists' to say that the ordinary workers shouldn't earn enough to drive a car to work they'll have to use a bicycle just like their communist Chinese competitors.
Minimum age is around £14k p.a if you worked full time, so you'd still get PAYE and NI deductedAs for the poorest paying nothing as far as I know minimum wage doesn't excuse anyone from having to pay VAT and duty on petrol and car costs to get to work for example ( or beer ).All of which is paid at the same rate from the poorest to the richest.
Now we just wait for the 'Capitalists' to say that the ordinary workers shouldn't earn enough to drive a car to work they'll have to use a bicycle just like their communist Chinese competitors.
NicD said:
YOU need therapy!
Ukip does deal with far-right, racist Holocaust-denier to save EU funding http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/20/uk...Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff