Why the UKIP will never work....
Discussion
BGARK said:
The traditional hands on skills, the ability to multi-task between all forms of manufacturing machinery, practically not theoretically.
Try and find someone without grey hair in the UK that can do these jobs.
There is a 20 year skill gap that has been devastated by recent governments, STEM colleges are slowly opening back up but it will take years to recover if at all possible.
It has very little to do with "Governments" in my opinion. The responsibility lies with manufacturers (both management and workers). Strange how Nissan, Toyota, and Honda can manufacture cars profitably when British-owned companies couldn't.Try and find someone without grey hair in the UK that can do these jobs.
There is a 20 year skill gap that has been devastated by recent governments, STEM colleges are slowly opening back up but it will take years to recover if at all possible.
Countdown said:
BGARK said:
The traditional hands on skills, the ability to multi-task between all forms of manufacturing machinery, practically not theoretically.
Try and find someone without grey hair in the UK that can do these jobs.
There is a 20 year skill gap that has been devastated by recent governments, STEM colleges are slowly opening back up but it will take years to recover if at all possible.
It has very little to do with "Governments" in my opinion. The responsibility lies with manufacturers (both management and workers). Strange how Nissan, Toyota, and Honda can manufacture cars profitably when British-owned companies couldn't.Try and find someone without grey hair in the UK that can do these jobs.
There is a 20 year skill gap that has been devastated by recent governments, STEM colleges are slowly opening back up but it will take years to recover if at all possible.
Either that or he doesn't pay enough for the skills he requires and can only attract cheaper migrants.
Otherwise it's all the EU's fault, educating and training up competent workers. How dare they!
King 
said:
said:Countdown said:
BGARK said:
The traditional hands on skills, the ability to multi-task between all forms of manufacturing machinery, practically not theoretically.
Try and find someone without grey hair in the UK that can do these jobs.
There is a 20 year skill gap that has been devastated by recent governments, STEM colleges are slowly opening back up but it will take years to recover if at all possible.
It has very little to do with "Governments" in my opinion. The responsibility lies with manufacturers (both management and workers). Strange how Nissan, Toyota, and Honda can manufacture cars profitably when British-owned companies couldn't.Try and find someone without grey hair in the UK that can do these jobs.
There is a 20 year skill gap that has been devastated by recent governments, STEM colleges are slowly opening back up but it will take years to recover if at all possible.
Either that or he doesn't pay enough for the skills he requires and can only attract cheaper migrants.
Otherwise it's all the EU's fault, educating and training up competent workers. How dare they!
Countdown said:
It has very little to do with "Governments" in my opinion. The responsibility lies with manufacturers (both management and workers). Strange how Nissan, Toyota, and Honda can manufacture cars profitably when British-owned companies couldn't.
Lack of investment, lack of skills, too many feckless managers, too much interference from government, issues with unions etc...Plus the huge growth of fluffy non-jobs and qualifications that have created a generation of brainwashed muppets.
King said:
said: It seems that BGARK would prefer to buy in cheap pre-trained labour from abroad than train up people from the UK.
Either that or he doesn't pay enough for the skills he requires and can only attract cheaper migrants.
Otherwise it's all the EU's fault, educating and training up competent workers. How dare they!
You are clearly trolling. I have noticed from most of your posts you simply make up words that people haven't said. Maybe this is your job?Either that or he doesn't pay enough for the skills he requires and can only attract cheaper migrants.
Otherwise it's all the EU's fault, educating and training up competent workers. How dare they!
How many people do you employ, British or otherwise?
BGARK said:
King said:
said: It seems that BGARK would prefer to buy in cheap pre-trained labour from abroad than train up people from the UK.
Either that or he doesn't pay enough for the skills he requires and can only attract cheaper migrants.
Otherwise it's all the EU's fault, educating and training up competent workers. How dare they!
You are clearly trolling. I have noticed from most of your posts you simply make up words that people haven't said. Maybe this is your job?Either that or he doesn't pay enough for the skills he requires and can only attract cheaper migrants.
Otherwise it's all the EU's fault, educating and training up competent workers. How dare they!
How many people do you employ, British or otherwise?
Ah the good old 'you can't express an opinion about Man Utd unless you've played for Man Utd' argument. I've noticed from your other posts that you express opinions about so many things that you can't possibly have experience of all of them. I'm retired thank you, so I don't employ anybody apart from gardeners and domestics these days but I'm not going to brag about how many I've employed in the past either. Playing billy big balls with someone 'substantially better than yow' somehow lacks appeal.
RYH64E said:
We have an enormous market on our doorstep, we have free and unrestricted access to that market, cheap overseas competitors are put at a disadvantage due to customs procedures and import duties, and most of our fellow Europeans have labour practices that are archaic. Yet instead of making the most of the opportunity that being part of that protectionist market offers many want to leave and compete directly with the likes of India and China in the world market, personally I'm much happier competing with the likes of France and Greece in the EU market.
The EU is the biggest export market for many of our manufacturers, about 50% of my output went to other EU states this year, anything that jeopardises EU trade will have a devastating affect on our prosperity and employment figures. All for what? To save a few quid on membership costs and appease the crowd?
If you're right then how do you explain our trade surplus with Europe before we joined the scam which then turned into a deficit which massacred our manufacturing sector since joining it.The fact is the EU might provide some opportunities for a few domestic exporters but at the expense of the country's overall prosperity as a whole simply because our own market is ( would be ) worth more to our domestic industry than the EU one is worth to it.The EU is the biggest export market for many of our manufacturers, about 50% of my output went to other EU states this year, anything that jeopardises EU trade will have a devastating affect on our prosperity and employment figures. All for what? To save a few quid on membership costs and appease the crowd?
IE in general the EU doesn't buy British it buys German while the Germans also rule our domestic market and if it isn't the Germans then it is the Chinese.In which case our industry and the economy has much more to gain from an environment based on a policy of trade quotas and tarrifs,to at least maintain trade balance,than what we have now in the form of a massive trade deficit which is gradually sinking the country in debt.
BGARK said:
XJ Flyer said:
On that note exactly what skills is it that aren't available here.
The traditional hands on skills, the ability to multi-task between all forms of manufacturing machinery, practically not theoretically.Try and find someone without grey hair in the UK that can do these jobs.
There is a 20 year skill gap that has been devastated by recent governments, STEM colleges are slowly opening back up but it will take years to recover if at all possible.
Having said that the domestic employers case seems to be more one of using the lie that our own workforce doesn't even have the ability to even be trained.Because they would prefer to import cheaper east european and asian etc labour to make a bit of extra profit before the inevitable collapse in the economy caused by that thinking takes place.
XJ Flyer said:
If you're right then how do you explain our trade surplus with Europe before we joined the scam which then turned into a deficit which massacred our manufacturing sector since joining it.The fact is the EU might provide some opportunities for a few domestic exporters but at the expense of the country's overall prosperity as a whole simply because our own market is ( would be ) worth more to our domestic industry than the EU one is worth to it.
Can you point out on the diagram where the EU touched you?
Red line is when we joined the EU.
I'm not the biggest fan of the EU, but I can't see the smoking gun for your claim.
I'd be more inclined to blame this kind of thing;
RYH64E said:
BGARK said:
How many Indian/Chinese cars do you see on the roads of Europe?
How many European cars do you see on the roads of India/China.
Why do you think the European carmakers have manufacturing plants in China? Probably for the same reason that Japanese car manufacturers have manufacturing plants in the EU, the question is whether they would want to have manufacturing plants in the UK if we could no longer provide free access to the EU market.How many European cars do you see on the roads of India/China.
Import duties on non-EU manufactured cars are 10%, if we leave the EU without securing free access to the EU market anyone in the rest of Europe wanting to buy a UK made car will be hit with a 10% surcharge. If we want to negotiate a free trade agreement with the UK it will mean signing up to the same kind of agreement that Switzerland has, which will mean that the bold promises UKIP make won't be deliverable. So free trade in return for open borders, or fortress UK, what's it to be?
The Chinese car market is interesting, I usually visit China once or twice a year and the most of my senior contacts over there drive BMW or Audi cars, the rest drive makes I've never heard of. It's a very status conscious society, and the very small percentage of wealthy people can afford to pay for whatever European branded products they want. I see more Lamborghinis and Ferraris in Shanghai than anywhere in the UK outside of central London, but the percentage of people who can afford them is very, very small.
While conveniently missing the point that if the EU starts a trade war with us it would have a 'very' different outcome for the EU than starting one with Switzerland.IE the EU has ( much ) more to lose in such a trade war than we do.While in fact we have everything to gain by getting sovereignty over our own government back and being able to at least put the economy back into trade balance with Europe.
XJ Flyer said:
If you're right then how do you explain our trade surplus with Europe before we joined the scam which then turned into a deficit which massacred our manufacturing sector since joining it.
Because there are too many armchair experts who'd rather sit around whingeing about the EU than get of their collective arses to take advantage of the opportunities available. Make stuff, sell it to our EU neighbours, employ people, pay taxes, and get rich in the process, what's wrong with that?XJ Flyer said:
The reason for which is that the younger generations since those with 'grey hair' were born into a different economy based on banking and the service sector in which we import manufactured goods paid for by either borrowing the money or printing it because we don't actually produce anything to base the currency on.In which case either those with your logic start to train the required workforce if it isn't there or the country will sink under its debts.
Having said that the domestic employers case seems to be more one of using the lie that our own workforce doesn't even have the ability to even be trained.Because they would prefer to import cheaper east european and asian etc labour to make a bit of extra profit before the inevitable collapse in the economy caused by that thinking takes place.
I agree with everything you have said here.Having said that the domestic employers case seems to be more one of using the lie that our own workforce doesn't even have the ability to even be trained.Because they would prefer to import cheaper east european and asian etc labour to make a bit of extra profit before the inevitable collapse in the economy caused by that thinking takes place.
otolith said:
XJ Flyer said:
If you're right then how do you explain our trade surplus with Europe before we joined the scam which then turned into a deficit which massacred our manufacturing sector since joining it.The fact is the EU might provide some opportunities for a few domestic exporters but at the expense of the country's overall prosperity as a whole simply because our own market is ( would be ) worth more to our domestic industry than the EU one is worth to it.
Can you point out on the diagram where the EU touched you?Red line is when we joined the EU.
I'm not the biggest fan of the EU, but I can't see the smoking gun for your claim.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Wednesday 3rd December 17:43
BGARK said:
Countdown said:
It has very little to do with "Governments" in my opinion. The responsibility lies with manufacturers (both management and workers). Strange how Nissan, Toyota, and Honda can manufacture cars profitably when British-owned companies couldn't.
Lack of investment, lack of skills, too many feckless managers, too much interference from government, issues with unions etc...Plus the huge growth of fluffy non-jobs and qualifications that have created a generation of brainwashed muppets.
It's easy to blame others for one's own shortcomings.
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