So Russia is a bit screwed then

[Johnnytheboy]

There was a thing on R4 about this the other day, I forget where.

Combo of shale gas and keeping the oli price down does rather pull the rug from under Putin's feet.

Couldn't happen to a better person.

[Lost soul]

Stevanos said:

Russia's GDP is about (was) the same as Itlay! I would not lose much sleep.

Really !!!!

I am flabbergasted if that is true ???

[raftom]

superkartracer said:

Chim said:

Looks like the yanks are winning at poker with Russia,

Nope

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2014/11/20/...

That article reads like a Lockheed Martin investors brochure.

[skyrover]

Lost soul said:

Stevanos said:

Russia's GDP is about (was) the same as Itlay! I would not lose much sleep.

Really !!!!

I am flabbergasted if that is true ???

Global top 10 GDP 2013 (nominal)

European Union 17,512,109
1 United States 16,768,050
2 China 9,469,124
3 Japan 4,898,530
4 Germany 3,635,959
5 France 2,807,306
CIS 2,800,090 (commonwealth independent states, Russia's EU equivalent)
6 United Kingdom 2,523,216
7 Brazil 2,246,037
8 Russia 2,096,774
9 Italy 2,071,955
10 India 1,876,811

Global top 10 GDP 2013 (Domestic purchasing power adjusted)

European Union 17,402,000
1 United States 16,800,000
2 China 16,158,000
3 India 6,774,000
4 Japan 4,624,000
5 Germany 3,493,000
6 Russia 3,461,000
7 Brazil 3,012,000
8 France 2,437,000
9 Indonesia 2,388,000
10 United Kingdom 2,320,000
11 Italy 2,052,000

In dollar terms, Russia's economy is worth about the same as Italy's on the international market. The Dollar goes further when spent in Russia than Italy though, so purchasing power adjusted shows an estimate of "true" domestic spending power.

Edited by skyrover on Tuesday 25th November 10:44

[SpeckledJim]

Tallow said:

Hoofy said:

williamp said:

If putin thinks its bad now, wait until 2015 and he has to deal with ed Milliband as pm...

Maybe Putin will recruit Klass as an advisor.

I don't think she's got any political experience really, but it's got to be worth a shot

She'll look terrific in one of those furry hats. And it'll get her out of that Mansion Tax pickle. Win Win.

[qube_TA]

SpeckledJim said:

She'll look terrific in one of those furry hats. And it'll get her out of that Mansion Tax pickle. Win Win.

You might be right there!

[AA999]

Not much mention of how trade sanctions have negatively affected UK/EU/USA businesses.

Russia has also recently strengthened trade ties with China has it not? (stand to be corrected on that)

And I think Russia and China along with some others have intentions of moving away from the Dollar as the trading currency.
I think in a few years time the story of who is screwed might be a different one. Maybe not that Russia is no longer screwed, more like the USA may have joined their club.

[menousername]

AA999 said:

Not much mention of how trade sanctions have negatively affected UK/EU/USA businesses.

Russia has also recently strengthened trade ties with China has it not? (stand to be corrected on that)

And I think Russia and China along with some others have intentions of moving away from the Dollar as the trading currency.
I think in a few years time the story of who is screwed might be a different one. Maybe not that Russia is no longer screwed, more like the USA may have joined their club.

China is massively dependent upon US for their exports though, and have their own problems too

it will be a slow but general downward trend for all of the above

[skyrover]

AA999 said:

Russia has also recently strengthened trade ties with China has it not? (stand to be corrected)

China has Russia over the barrel. Russia has nowhere else to turn and the Chinese know this. They just wrung 30 years of gas from the Russians at an extremely favourable price. In fact some estimate Russia wont make any profit at all.

[FourWheelDrift]

Russia suing France - http://news.sky.com/story/1380105/russia-threatens...

When Russia threatens to sue France rather than threaten militarily then they really are screwed. Also, buying a helicopter carrier from France, I know France needs the money but what's happened to Russian ship building. Oh dear.

[XJ Flyer]

FourWheelDrift said:

When Russia threatens to sue France rather than threaten militarily then they really are screwed.

The same argument could be said about NATO.When NATO tries to move into Crimea and the Russians slam the door in NATO's face militarily who is NATO trying to fool by then using economic warfare instead of the military solution.The fact is no one who is sane in the west wants to die over taking eastern Ukraine away from the Russian sphere of influence.In which case it is just a matter of time until Russia decides that it has had enough of being subject to economic warfare over the issue of Ukraine when it has nothing to lose by turning a cold economic war into a hot military one.

While history shows that economics are irrelevant if/when Russia goes into full on war mode in addition to using every trick in the book to fool its potential enemies into thinking that it is ( much ) weaker militarily than it actually is.

[Octoposse]

grumbledoak said:

MKnight702 said:

Can anyone tell me if Putin will make the distinction between attacking a sovereign nation economically or physically? And if he can't retaliate economically then guess which option he has left..

What do you think he did in the Crimea and is doing in Ukraine? We cannot be leaving him with only one option when he is already doing it by choice.

Well, Crimea is now part of Russia, as it was since about the time of American Independence, and with the approval of the vast majority of the people who live there (self determination of peoples - apparently something we approve of).

The conflict in the East of Ukraine was not sought by Russia - in fact it was the worst of all possible options for Putin, except Russian public opinion turned against him by a military victory for the "fascists" in Kiev, and ethnic Russians fleeing over the border. A political deal and a figleaf of federalism would have suited him more, but not, apparently, us.

The problem with the vilification of Moscow over Ukraine is that it is Russia that has always been reactive, not proactive. . .
- The EU woos Kiev witha trade deal, Moscow offers a better one;
- EU/US goes for regime change (throwing their weight behind some pretty unsavoury characters), Moscow dusts off the plans in the basement for the return of Crimea;
- Kiev is encouraged to seek a military solution in the East, Moscow counters with weapons and, ahem, 'volunteers';
- Ukraine uses airpower, Moscow supplies air defence systems.

So the clamour for Russian 'restraint' means shut up and conform which is not going to happen under any conceivable current or future leadership in Moscow, whatever the price to be paid - the memories of doing so in the recent price are too raw. Ergo we need to engage and negotiate, not threaten and cajole . .

[anonymous-user]

Anyone that threatens the dollar as oil currency is seen as a threat to the U.S.
The Americans are trying to hold onto their position in the world and this is seen in their attitude towards Russia and China. It is also seen in the massive lack of corellation between which Islamic nations promote and export intolerance and terrorism and which Islamic nations the Americans pick on.

[smegmore]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

One Saddam Hussein for example, who decided to sell his oil for euros rather than the almighty U.S. dollar, which instantly turned him into no.1 bogeyman in Dubya's reign, whereas previously he was no.1 goodie for Ronnie Reagan against the evil Iranians.