RBS wanted Ginetta boss's mortgage back!
Discussion
Doesn't matter what anyone says - massive conflict of interest where banks were in effect acting as "asset strippers" and passing on cheap properties/assets to themselves or likely other companies/investors they had cosy relationships with. Big transfer of wealth - some would say illegally/immorally. Wouldn't be much of a problem if the lending market was healthier when all this was going on as businesses who could survive would get funding elsewhere. But when there's no money for lending available; you're at the mercy of your bank which gives them an excellent opportunity to take more than they should be entitled to.
We know banks had to take some bad debt off their balance sheets, but a lot of the stories I've heard went over and above this. I do hope this is investigated to the maximum and people brought to account IF it turns out there has been anything illegal going on. "It's business" doesn't quite cut it I'm afraid.
We know banks had to take some bad debt off their balance sheets, but a lot of the stories I've heard went over and above this. I do hope this is investigated to the maximum and people brought to account IF it turns out there has been anything illegal going on. "It's business" doesn't quite cut it I'm afraid.
zuby84 said:
Doesn't matter what anyone says - massive conflict of interest where banks were in effect acting as "asset strippers" and passing on cheap properties/assets to themselves or likely other companies/investors they had cosy relationships with...
This had been going on for some time prior to the GFC with at least one of the big banks to my knowledge. Had a conversation with a fellow PHer who was involved in the commercial and industrial property market and was raising his eyebrows at some of the valuations and growing property portfolio of a surveyor-cum-industrial property owner.It's a great wheeze - effectively bid some mug int he balls so the bank forecloses, with no actual loss because all that goes is the poor mug's equity, and you step in to buy a bargain to let out to the next mug.
Digga said:
his had been going on for some time prior to the GFC with at least one of the big banks to my knowledge. Had a conversation with a fellow PHer who was involved in the commercial and industrial property market and was raising his eyebrows at some of the valuations and growing property portfolio of a surveyor-cum-industrial property owner.
It's a great wheeze - effectively bid some mug int he balls so the bank forecloses, with no actual loss because all that goes is the poor mug's equity, and you step in to buy a bargain to let out to the next mug.
Yeah, I've heard of a few similar stories too. It all comes down to competition; with healthy competition - viable businesses should be able to go elsewhere if their bank is acting unfairly. However with Lloyds and RBS controlling circa 70% of the SME lending market in the UK - it's turned into a bit of a monopoly.It's a great wheeze - effectively bid some mug int he balls so the bank forecloses, with no actual loss because all that goes is the poor mug's equity, and you step in to buy a bargain to let out to the next mug.
Capitalism is great - providing there is adequate competition and there are viable alternatives available in the market.
If any commercial sector becomes dominated by large, monopolistic entities, capitalism collapses and you get something even worse than government inefficiency - you get criminality.
I would prefer a state run monopoly to a commercial monopoly any day.
If any commercial sector becomes dominated by large, monopolistic entities, capitalism collapses and you get something even worse than government inefficiency - you get criminality.
I would prefer a state run monopoly to a commercial monopoly any day.
Eric Mc said:
Capitalism is great - providing there is adequate competition and there are viable alternatives available in the market.
If any commercial sector becomes dominated by large, monopolistic entities, capitalism collapses and you get something even worse than government inefficiency - you get criminality.
I would prefer a state run monopoly to a commercial monopoly any day.
Agree to an extent, but then remember that RBS was already state-owned when it pulled the move described in the OP. If Mr Tomlinson, a successful and high net-worth individual gets this sort of treatment, what chance for the average SME owner?If any commercial sector becomes dominated by large, monopolistic entities, capitalism collapses and you get something even worse than government inefficiency - you get criminality.
I would prefer a state run monopoly to a commercial monopoly any day.
Digga said:
Agree to an extent, but then remember that RBS was already state-owned when it pulled the move described in the OP. If Mr Tomlinson, a successful and high net-worth individual gets this sort of treatment, what chance for the average SME owner?
It's state owned but not state run - which is the worst combination of all.Eric Mc said:
It's state owned but not state run - which is the worst combination of all.
Yes, I'd not considered that fully; a subtle but relevant distinction.There is certainly a lot of ill feeling about the way RBS represented their 'special measures' division as being a cost centre, rather than profit centre to the government's interviewing panel.
Following the banking fiasco & tax payer bail out government is forcing banks to take a more conservative view to avoid being over exposed to risk - and whilst they go about fixing the errors from the past they get stick for doing so.
Maybe mr Tomlinson's business was stretched?
Surprised a high nett worth customer has a mortgage on his home?
Maybe mr Tomlinson's business was stretched?
Surprised a high nett worth customer has a mortgage on his home?
coetzeeh said:
Following the banking fiasco & tax payer bail out government is forcing banks to take a more conservative view to avoid being over exposed to risk - and whilst they go about fixing the errors from the past they get stick for doing so.
Yes, to an extent, except, if you read above, a lot of the questionable practices were going on well before that - some prior to the GFC.Government [i[was[/i] dumb and flat-footed in the way it acted toward banks without regard - as is so often the case with goverment and public sector - for unintended consequences, but the banks could have argued better on the SMEs behalf, rather than simply plundering them in order to save their own balance sheets.
coetzeeh said:
Maybe mr Tomlinson's business was stretched?
Possibly, although that was not the gist of RBS's letter.coetzeeh said:
Surprised a high nett worth customer has a mortgage on his home?
Really? It can be a very cheap way to borrow money.Well this year, I finally got written proof that RBS lied to me and a Judge in court in 2009 but when I called the RBS Exec Office (yes it had got to that level) they completely refused to discuss and then put the phone done on me. Two days later I got a letter saying that anything else I sent them would be filed unread.
I am now in the process of getting the case reopened.
Everything about "how they have changed" and you can now "trust them" is total rubbish
I am now in the process of getting the case reopened.
Everything about "how they have changed" and you can now "trust them" is total rubbish
Blue Cat said:
Well this year, I finally got written proof that RBS lied to me and a Judge in court in 2009 but when I called the RBS Exec Office (yes it had got to that level) they completely refused to discuss and then put the phone done on me. Two days later I got a letter saying that anything else I sent them would be filed unread.
I am now in the process of getting the case reopened.
Everything about "how they have changed" and you can now "trust them" is total rubbish
Anything you can discuss?I am now in the process of getting the case reopened.
Everything about "how they have changed" and you can now "trust them" is total rubbish
zuby84 said:
Blue Cat said:
Well this year, I finally got written proof that RBS lied to me and a Judge in court in 2009 but when I called the RBS Exec Office (yes it had got to that level) they completely refused to discuss and then put the phone done on me. Two days later I got a letter saying that anything else I sent them would be filed unread.
I am now in the process of getting the case reopened.
Everything about "how they have changed" and you can now "trust them" is total rubbish
Anything you can discuss?I am now in the process of getting the case reopened.
Everything about "how they have changed" and you can now "trust them" is total rubbish
They broke a NDA by giving my company information (customers, pricing information, business plan and new products in development) to a competitor
They pulled a £3M contract two weeks before launch and gave it to this competitor, lied about the reasons why they were doing it leaving us with massive debts as we had invested in new staff etc to fulfil the contract. This ended up destroying a 8 year old business. We had worked with RBS for over a year to develop this new product and bring it to market.
They have refused to ever have a face to face meeting to explain their reasons for doing this
It was a pure fluke that I found out the truth of what happened.
Wacky Racer said:
RBS epitomises all that is wrong with the British banking industry.
It needs a shake up from the top down. Lloyds, Barclays they are all at it.
The people I feel sorry for are the counter staff who see their bosses with their noses in the trough, whilst the banks are still being fined millions for malpractices dating back years.......
You're spot on there.It needs a shake up from the top down. Lloyds, Barclays they are all at it.
The people I feel sorry for are the counter staff who see their bosses with their noses in the trough, whilst the banks are still being fined millions for malpractices dating back years.......
They are all at it. I bank mainly with B for Barclays or should that now be B for ???
Spoken today to what you term counter staff. Let's take Barclays in my local town. A year ago plenty of staff as you walked in, plenty of counters. Today the reality: one counter, a couple of staff wandering aimlessly asking if you want help or assistance? I said, no I know what I want and why I have come in. Really, I want another counter or the counters that have disappeared. Then I hear the plan. The face workers (counter staff) are in a firing line.
In another bank nameless but a counter more than B's 'where is all this leading?'
Probably one building in your town/city with one counter for each bank.
Oh, I get it, they're all in it together.
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