So it's class war then...
Discussion
turbobloke said:
Around 33% of pupils receive some form of financial help with fees, just under 8% are in receipt of means-tested bursaries worth a total of £303m.
That's not all though, as 93 per cent of independent schools are sharing facilities with local state schools and community groups and 32 are sponsoring government-funded academies.
Bursaries and assisted fee schemes don't tell the full charitable story.
I get confused by the bursary/scholarship situation. My boy is in what would have been year 4 in the old system, so year 10 or so now, at a private school, and out of the blue he was awarded a scholarship for academic achievement this year. It's worth about 30% of fees from this year forwards, so a good saving, but we didn't apply for it, didn't expect it (didn't even know it was available), and it makes no difference to our decision to send him there as that was decided years ago. I was somewhat surprised that the money wasn't directed at a more deserving cause, but hey ho. That's not all though, as 93 per cent of independent schools are sharing facilities with local state schools and community groups and 32 are sponsoring government-funded academies.
Bursaries and assisted fee schemes don't tell the full charitable story.
Randomthoughts said:
OllieC said:
I hardly live in the most salubrious of environments (midlands) but you cant get a house for 75k here
Bulls
t.After your terse dismissal I checked the whole county (Northants) there were 3 advertised at 75, and a few more a little above that. All are in absolute s
t hole estates I wouldn't expect anyone to want to live in.I take your point about potential buyers being too choosy, but Northants is hardly the south east when it comes to prices. Ok yes, people could move, but that's not always an option either.
OllieC said:
After your terse dismissal I checked the whole county (Northants) there were 3 advertised at 75, and a few more a little above that. All are in absolute st hole estates I wouldn't expect anyone to want to live in.
I take your point about potential buyers being too choosy, but Northants is hardly the south east when it comes to prices. Ok yes, people could move, but that's not always an option either.
Dear ft hole estates I wouldn't expect anyone to want to live in.I take your point about potential buyers being too choosy, but Northants is hardly the south east when it comes to prices. Ok yes, people could move, but that's not always an option either.
king tittychrist.Beggars, choosers... If you've got to get somewhere to live, you can't b
h about what you can afford. Take it, grow, put some money into it and then move on.It's this self-appointed belief that first time buyers should be able to move into a house just far enough away from the best school in the county that the traffic doesn't affect them, but whilst still being largely guaranteed a place, with a welcome room, an office, two beds with en suites and another two with a shared bath, a kitchen, separate dining room and a living room big enough to entertain 10 people with the 65" TV on the wall and half of a county as their back garden with a double garage, all behind large motorised wrought iron gates.
I just did a search for properties in Corby for sub £80k (realistically being able to get £75k without too much hassle on a good number of them) and I got 81 results returned.
Where's the problem? Oh, SORRY, you insist on having a house... Not a home that you can afford (flats are homes too, you know?)
Edited by Randomthoughts on Wednesday 26th November 09:35
Randomthoughts said:
OllieC said:
After your terse dismissal I checked the whole county (Northants) there were 3 advertised at 75, and a few more a little above that. All are in absolute st hole estates I wouldn't expect anyone to want to live in.
I take your point about potential buyers being too choosy, but Northants is hardly the south east when it comes to prices. Ok yes, people could move, but that's not always an option either.
Dear ft hole estates I wouldn't expect anyone to want to live in.I take your point about potential buyers being too choosy, but Northants is hardly the south east when it comes to prices. Ok yes, people could move, but that's not always an option either.
king tittychrist.Beggars, choosers... If you've got to get somewhere to live, you can't b
h about what you can afford. Take it, grow, put some money into it and then move on.It's this self-appointed belief that first time buyers should be able to move into a house just far enough away from the best school in the county that the traffic doesn't affect them, but whilst still being largely guaranteed a place, with a welcome room, an office, two beds with en suites and another two with a shared bath, a kitchen, separate dining room and a living room big enough to entertain 10 people with the 65" TV on the wall.
I just did a search for properties in Corby for sub £80k (realistically being able to get £75k without too much hassle on a good number of them) and I got 81 results returned.
Where's the problem? Oh, SORRY, you insist on having a house... Not a home that you can afford (flats are homes too, you know?)
heppers75 said:
Randomthoughts said:
OllieC said:
After your terse dismissal I checked the whole county (Northants) there were 3 advertised at 75, and a few more a little above that. All are in absolute st hole estates I wouldn't expect anyone to want to live in.
I take your point about potential buyers being too choosy, but Northants is hardly the south east when it comes to prices. Ok yes, people could move, but that's not always an option either.
Dear ft hole estates I wouldn't expect anyone to want to live in.I take your point about potential buyers being too choosy, but Northants is hardly the south east when it comes to prices. Ok yes, people could move, but that's not always an option either.
king tittychrist.Beggars, choosers... If you've got to get somewhere to live, you can't b
h about what you can afford. Take it, grow, put some money into it and then move on.It's this self-appointed belief that first time buyers should be able to move into a house just far enough away from the best school in the county that the traffic doesn't affect them, but whilst still being largely guaranteed a place, with a welcome room, an office, two beds with en suites and another two with a shared bath, a kitchen, separate dining room and a living room big enough to entertain 10 people with the 65" TV on the wall.
I just did a search for properties in Corby for sub £80k (realistically being able to get £75k without too much hassle on a good number of them) and I got 81 results returned.
Where's the problem? Oh, SORRY, you insist on having a house... Not a home that you can afford (flats are homes too, you know?)
! (I made the assumption that prices of Houses were similar across Northants to where I am.)There's nothing wrong with flats of course, I lived in one for a few years.
I basically agree with the sentiment of your argument, sense of entitlement etc. I would rather rent somewhere a little nicer then buy in a sink estate for the sake of ownership though, but each to their own.
In the UK I believe we have a much higher rate of home ownership than most of Europe, or is that a myth (I'll look it up when I get a minute rather than be wrong again)
RYH64E said:
turbobloke said:
Around 33% of pupils receive some form of financial help with fees, just under 8% are in receipt of means-tested bursaries worth a total of £303m.
That's not all though, as 93 per cent of independent schools are sharing facilities with local state schools and community groups and 32 are sponsoring government-funded academies.
Bursaries and assisted fee schemes don't tell the full charitable story.
I get confused by the bursary/scholarship situation. My boy is in what would have been year 4 in the old system, so year 10 or so now, at a private school, and out of the blue he was awarded a scholarship for academic achievement this year. It's worth about 30% of fees from this year forwards, so a good saving, but we didn't apply for it, didn't expect it (didn't even know it was available), and it makes no difference to our decision to send him there as that was decided years ago. I was somewhat surprised that the money wasn't directed at a more deserving cause, but hey ho. That's not all though, as 93 per cent of independent schools are sharing facilities with local state schools and community groups and 32 are sponsoring government-funded academies.
Bursaries and assisted fee schemes don't tell the full charitable story.
Randomthoughts said:
OllieC said:
OK.. after a bit more digging I will admit to being wrong ! (I made the assumption that prices of Houses were similar across Northants to where I am.)
Perfectly logical assumption, because Kettering, Corby and Oundle are such similar places! ! (I made the assumption that prices of Houses were similar across Northants to where I am.)
Kettering is a s
t hole, hence my assumption Derek Smith said:
heppers75 said:
Just as an aside...
My son is on the school rugby team, we played one of the local comps several months ago. We happened to win, pretty much hands down to be fair.
However there was the post match stuff on the field the usual man of the match etc. So we had best try, man of the match and players player, cheapo trophies that get passed on week to week, you know the stuff we probably all did as kids.
They had none of that but the teacher/coach did a we may have lost but we are all winners kind of speech and they all got a "participation" ribbon!!!
My lad plays rugby. He led his team out onto the hallowed turf for a cup final. 'We' beat the other side by more than one score and my lad was presented with the cup. And do you know what the leftie RFU did? They only gave the other side participation medals. That's just asking for a reduction to mediocrity.My son is on the school rugby team, we played one of the local comps several months ago. We happened to win, pretty much hands down to be fair.
However there was the post match stuff on the field the usual man of the match etc. So we had best try, man of the match and players player, cheapo trophies that get passed on week to week, you know the stuff we probably all did as kids.
They had none of that but the teacher/coach did a we may have lost but we are all winners kind of speech and they all got a "participation" ribbon!!!
I would like to quote what Tristram said during his speech yesterday;
"...1.6 million in schools which require improvement..." - which sounds like a devastating indictment of government policy. Shame there's been no government spending in the sector for so long.
I find it hard to reconcile the lending of a teacher or a joint drama production with the improvement of the needs of 1.6 million pupils. Is that all it would take? Seriously?
In some ways it's a straightforward political tool - there will never be equality (how could there be?) but all the time it's heralded as the goal there's a chance to use it as a lever against whoever you need to pressurise/extract more cash from.
"...1.6 million in schools which require improvement..." - which sounds like a devastating indictment of government policy. Shame there's been no government spending in the sector for so long.
I find it hard to reconcile the lending of a teacher or a joint drama production with the improvement of the needs of 1.6 million pupils. Is that all it would take? Seriously?
In some ways it's a straightforward political tool - there will never be equality (how could there be?) but all the time it's heralded as the goal there's a chance to use it as a lever against whoever you need to pressurise/extract more cash from.
berlintaxi said:
Derek Smith said:
heppers75 said:
Just as an aside...
My son is on the school rugby team, we played one of the local comps several months ago. We happened to win, pretty much hands down to be fair.
However there was the post match stuff on the field the usual man of the match etc. So we had best try, man of the match and players player, cheapo trophies that get passed on week to week, you know the stuff we probably all did as kids.
They had none of that but the teacher/coach did a we may have lost but we are all winners kind of speech and they all got a "participation" ribbon!!!
My lad plays rugby. He led his team out onto the hallowed turf for a cup final. 'We' beat the other side by more than one score and my lad was presented with the cup. And do you know what the leftie RFU did? They only gave the other side participation medals. That's just asking for a reduction to mediocrity.My son is on the school rugby team, we played one of the local comps several months ago. We happened to win, pretty much hands down to be fair.
However there was the post match stuff on the field the usual man of the match etc. So we had best try, man of the match and players player, cheapo trophies that get passed on week to week, you know the stuff we probably all did as kids.
They had none of that but the teacher/coach did a we may have lost but we are all winners kind of speech and they all got a "participation" ribbon!!!
turbobloke said:
berlintaxi said:
Derek Smith said:
heppers75 said:
Just as an aside...
My son is on the school rugby team, we played one of the local comps several months ago. We happened to win, pretty much hands down to be fair.
However there was the post match stuff on the field the usual man of the match etc. So we had best try, man of the match and players player, cheapo trophies that get passed on week to week, you know the stuff we probably all did as kids.
They had none of that but the teacher/coach did a we may have lost but we are all winners kind of speech and they all got a "participation" ribbon!!!
My lad plays rugby. He led his team out onto the hallowed turf for a cup final. 'We' beat the other side by more than one score and my lad was presented with the cup. And do you know what the leftie RFU did? They only gave the other side participation medals. That's just asking for a reduction to mediocrity.My son is on the school rugby team, we played one of the local comps several months ago. We happened to win, pretty much hands down to be fair.
However there was the post match stuff on the field the usual man of the match etc. So we had best try, man of the match and players player, cheapo trophies that get passed on week to week, you know the stuff we probably all did as kids.
They had none of that but the teacher/coach did a we may have lost but we are all winners kind of speech and they all got a "participation" ribbon!!!
Having a commiseration medal for coming second in a final is one thing, not having the usual man of the match, players player etc as they single out individuals in lieu of which you give everyone a "participation ribbon" was more an example of one of the many reasons people choose private schooling over the state because of nonsense such as that. turbobloke said:
crankedup said:
turbobloke said:
fblm said:
FredClogs said:
This is true, before we had our 3rd child we were in a position where we could quite comfortably put 2 kids through private school on fairly average household income, the third one would be a stretch. But we decided we won't even if we could afford it, partly because the nearest fee paying school isn't particularly good but also because I don't believe that my children's future WILL suffer by going to a local high school. Mine didn't and my parents we more than financially able to educate me privately, my father attended a quite prestigious public school and the experience and memories of it galavanised his opinion that they were little more than breeding grounds for bigoted elitism and some very dodgy ethics. Instead they used the cash to help me with the deposit on my first house and give me the time to make some good decisions in my late teens and early twenties which freed me from the tyranny of inherited prejudice and the shackles of indentured servitude to a rotten system of capitalist idolatry.
And so the revolution started in the house daddy bought.
Privilege is a wonderful thing. Every revolutionary should have wealthy parents and access to BoMaD as they strive for equality with poorer people.
heppers75 said:
turbobloke said:
rovermorris999 said:
fblm said:
How do you level the 'good' school in a middle class commuter belt with a 'bad' school next to an inner city estate?
You do the usual socialist thing and level down. It's 'fair' then.My son is on the school rugby team, we played one of the local comps several months ago. We happened to win, pretty much hands down to be fair.
However there was the post match stuff on the field the usual man of the match etc. So we had best try, man of the match and players player, cheapo trophies that get passed on week to week, you know the stuff we probably all did as kids.
They had none of that but the teacher/coach did a we may have lost but we are all winners kind of speech and they all got a "participation" ribbon!!!
crankedup said:
turbobloke said:
crankedup said:
turbobloke said:
fblm said:
FredClogs said:
This is true, before we had our 3rd child we were in a position where we could quite comfortably put 2 kids through private school on fairly average household income, the third one would be a stretch. But we decided we won't even if we could afford it, partly because the nearest fee paying school isn't particularly good but also because I don't believe that my children's future WILL suffer by going to a local high school. Mine didn't and my parents we more than financially able to educate me privately, my father attended a quite prestigious public school and the experience and memories of it galavanised his opinion that they were little more than breeding grounds for bigoted elitism and some very dodgy ethics. Instead they used the cash to help me with the deposit on my first house and give me the time to make some good decisions in my late teens and early twenties which freed me from the tyranny of inherited prejudice and the shackles of indentured servitude to a rotten system of capitalist idolatry.
And so the revolution started in the house daddy bought.Privilege is a wonderful thing. Every revolutionary should have wealthy parents and access to BoMaD as they strive for equality with poorer people.
Mark Benson said:
crankedup said:
turbobloke said:
crankedup said:
turbobloke said:
fblm said:
FredClogs said:
This is true, before we had our 3rd child we were in a position where we could quite comfortably put 2 kids through private school on fairly average household income, the third one would be a stretch. But we decided we won't even if we could afford it, partly because the nearest fee paying school isn't particularly good but also because I don't believe that my children's future WILL suffer by going to a local high school. Mine didn't and my parents we more than financially able to educate me privately, my father attended a quite prestigious public school and the experience and memories of it galavanised his opinion that they were little more than breeding grounds for bigoted elitism and some very dodgy ethics. Instead they used the cash to help me with the deposit on my first house and give me the time to make some good decisions in my late teens and early twenties which freed me from the tyranny of inherited prejudice and the shackles of indentured servitude to a rotten system of capitalist idolatry.
And so the revolution started in the house daddy bought.Privilege is a wonderful thing. Every revolutionary should have wealthy parents and access to BoMaD as they strive for equality with poorer people.
Either that or go f
k yourselves you saddos, this is the internet, people have opinions - it's not personal.FredClogs said:
Guys, stop it! You're making me all sad inside, why can't we all just be friends?
Either that or go fk yourselves you saddos, this is the internet, people have opinions - it's not personal.
Either that or go f
k yourselves you saddos, this is the internet, people have opinions - it's not personal.
This just might be the first thing you've ever posted with which any sane person could agree
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