So it's class war then...

[catso]

Derek Smith said:

On an entirely different matter, is there an irony smiley?

[Swervin_Mervin]

FredClogs said:

All I'm saying is as a parent I would find it very hard to reconcile the money I'd wasted and not allow it to damage my relationship with my kid or find myself putting them under undue pressure.

Really?

That raises very deep questions entirely aside from education then.

[heppers75]

jonny996 said:

as this is PH I will throw this out there, I see many parents with kids at private schools driving cars they would rather not be in, forgoing the sun shine holidays to make sure their kids get what they feel is best for them.
Some off the people who are busy having a go at the private schools should maybe look at what the funds they use to go on the 2 holidays & drive 2 nice new cars would buy their children.
Far to many parents are completly selfish & make sure they get their luxuries first.

Very true, where we live it is on the walking route to the local secondary school, it is utterly woeful in performance terms and is generally exceptionally crap and certainly was in recent times on special measures etc. Has a drug problem and has a very notorious sink estate in its catchment.

Then I see some of the kids walking to it from houses around and about us that are North of £500k and have a couple of £40k cars on the drive. We also know a few of the people in passing and they go skiing and to the Caribbean on holiday.... Yet choose to wilfully send their kids to a very crap state school, when there are three or four very good private schools within 15 miles that are between £10k-£15k a year in fee's.

I have often found myself thinking how f**king selfish do you have to be as a parent to make that choice!

[anonymous-user]

FredClogs said:

All I'm saying is as a parent I would find it very hard to reconcile the money I'd wasted and not allow it to damage my relationship with my kid or find myself putting them under undue pressure

Wow.

[edh]

jonny996 said:

as this is PH I will throw this out there, I see many parents with kids at private schools driving cars they would rather not be in, forgoing the sun shine holidays to make sure their kids get what they feel is best for them.
Some off the people who are busy having a go at the private schools should maybe look at what the funds they use to go on the 2 holidays & drive 2 nice new cars would buy their children.
Far to many parents are completly selfish & make sure they get their luxuries first.

How about the people who don't want their kids to go to private schools? It is quite possible for them to do just fine at state schools you know..

[jonny996]

edh said:

How about the people who don't want their kids to go to private schools? It is quite possible for them to do just fine at state schools you know..

if you can afford it, why would you not chose to send your child to one? this is a genuine question.

[heppers75]

edh said:

jonny996 said:

as this is PH I will throw this out there, I see many parents with kids at private schools driving cars they would rather not be in, forgoing the sun shine holidays to make sure their kids get what they feel is best for them.
Some off the people who are busy having a go at the private schools should maybe look at what the funds they use to go on the 2 holidays & drive 2 nice new cars would buy their children.
Far to many parents are completly selfish & make sure they get their luxuries first.

How about the people who don't want their kids to go to private schools? It is quite possible for them to do just fine at state schools you know..

So you have such an antithesis to private education that you would choose to state educate your child at a dire school with a drug problem and in special measures rather than go private?

[anonymous-user]

edh said:

How about the people who don't want their kids to go to private schools? It is quite possible for them to do just fine at state schools you know..

Of course it is, I went to an excellent public school but the most successful people I'm friends with all went to state schools. Despite this we intend to send our kids to private schools in the UK. There is no doubt in my mind that an average kid will receive better teaching, more rounded education, better exam grades, get into a better University and get a better job going to a good private school than an average state school; thats kind of the whole point.

[FredClogs]

Swervin_Mervin said:

FredClogs said:

All I'm saying is as a parent I would find it very hard to reconcile the money I'd wasted and not allow it to damage my relationship with my kid or find myself putting them under undue pressure.

Really?

That raises very deep questions entirely aside from education then.

Come on, let's be honest, if you're splashing out £100k a year for a kid to go to school and they're not doing well academically, getting into trouble, lack passion and start doing stupid or weird stuff like playing rugby, you can't tell me you wouldn't feel like it was money wasted.

I shout at my kids for leaving their carrots, I hate wasting money and don't mind admitting it.

[iphonedyou]

FredClogs said:

Come on, let's be honest, if you're splashing out £100k a year for a kid to go to school and they're not doing well academically, getting into trouble, lack passion and start doing stupid or weird stuff like playing rugby, you can't tell me you wouldn't feel like it was money wasted.

I shout at my kids for leaving their carrots, I hate wasting money and don't mind admitting it.

Much more to a good school than education. To consider poor grades at a good school a waste is to betray a lack of understanding of the benefits a good school offers.

[Fittster]

jonny996 said:

edh said:

How about the people who don't want their kids to go to private schools? It is quite possible for them to do just fine at state schools you know..

if you can afford it, why would you not chose to send your child to one? this is a genuine question.

I want a level playing field (as long as my kids have an advantage).

[Derek Smith]

catso said:

Derek Smith said:

On an entirely different matter, is there an irony smiley?

Magic. I am indebted to you for that.

[anonymous-user]

Fittster said:

I want a level playing field (as long as my kids have an advantage).

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or what but that's exactly what I want.

[heppers75]

Fittster said:

jonny996 said:

edh said:

How about the people who don't want their kids to go to private schools? It is quite possible for them to do just fine at state schools you know..

if you can afford it, why would you not chose to send your child to one? this is a genuine question.

I want a level playing field (as long as my kids have an advantage).

From what I understand if you want to get on any sort of playing field at most state schools these days you are going to have to buy one of the houses they built on them!

[oyster]

heppers75 said:

oyster said:

Combined income of £100k (hope it's 2 earners at £50k each rather than one at £100k) is in the top 2% for the UK. Top 2%. And you don't think that's wealthy?

I think someone on say £60k and another on circa £40k is not uncommon in what I would call professional families. I would also contend that they do not see themselves as "pretty dam wealthy" I would say they are doing well, to my mind "pretty dam wealthy" would not be someone on £60k a year, but it is all about perspective I guess.

It can't be common can it?! The facts I've quoted above (from the IFS by the way in 2011-12) suggests 98% of households have an income of LESS than £100k.
Admittedly that's UK wide. If you live in Chelsea then maybe 50%+ of households earn that (although earning £100k and living in Chelsea won't leave much cash over for schooling!).

Anyhow I thought I'd play the game.
£60k earner and £40k earner.
Take home combined is £68,000 (assuming some pension contributions).
£300k mortgage on an average property in commuter town is £18k per year
Home insurances, maintenances etc another £2k
A cheap-ish car to run, insure, fuel, buy will cost say £3k a year.
Food/household is say £6k
Commuting costs for 2 will be about £6k
Council tax plus other utilities/bills will be £5k
Clothes £1k

What's left? £27k.
Could you put 2 kids through private schools with that? Possibly, just. If you told them they can't have as much kit/books/trips as their classmates. And it wouldn't be a top school either.

Oh and you better pray like crazy that interest rates never go up. Or that neither of you ever loses your job. Or that the school fees don't exceed wage increases like they have done for virtually every single year for the last 30 years.

Oh and you have no savings either.

And no holidays, no eating out. No day trips. No visiting relatives.



Writing this makes me realise just how exclusive private schools really are, because on the one hand I'm saying a household earning £100k is wealthy. But I'm also justifying just how hard it is for that 'wealthy' household to pay for private schooling.


I guess the vast majority of PH'ers sending kids to private schools are either earning way north of £100k or they are very lucky to have generous parents.

It's no surprise private schools are becoming busier with expats kids, as UK salaries can't keep up.

[FredClogs]

iphonedyou said:

FredClogs said:

Come on, let's be honest, if you're splashing out £100k a year for a kid to go to school and they're not doing well academically, getting into trouble, lack passion and start doing stupid or weird stuff like playing rugby, you can't tell me you wouldn't feel like it was money wasted.

I shout at my kids for leaving their carrots, I hate wasting money and don't mind admitting it.

Much more to a good school than education. To consider poor grades at a good school a waste is to betray a lack of understanding of the benefits a good school offers.

Indeed, at least someone is being honest about it. The reason most aspirational parents splash out on public schools is because they believe they're buying membership to a club - I'm far too cynical to fall for that...

[heppers75]

oyster said:

heppers75 said:

oyster said:

Combined income of £100k (hope it's 2 earners at £50k each rather than one at £100k) is in the top 2% for the UK. Top 2%. And you don't think that's wealthy?

I think someone on say £60k and another on circa £40k is not uncommon in what I would call professional families. I would also contend that they do not see themselves as "pretty dam wealthy" I would say they are doing well, to my mind "pretty dam wealthy" would not be someone on £60k a year, but it is all about perspective I guess.

It can't be common can it?! The facts I've quoted above (from the IFS by the way in 2011-12) suggests 98% of households have an income of LESS than £100k.
Admittedly that's UK wide. If you live in Chelsea then maybe 50%+ of households earn that (although earning £100k and living in Chelsea won't leave much cash over for schooling!).

Anyhow I thought I'd play the game.
£60k earner and £40k earner.
Take home combined is £68,000 (assuming some pension contributions).
£300k mortgage on an average property in commuter town is £18k per year
Home insurances, maintenances etc another £2k
A cheap-ish car to run, insure, fuel, buy will cost say £3k a year.
Food/household is say £6k
Commuting costs for 2 will be about £6k
Council tax plus other utilities/bills will be £5k
Clothes £1k

What's left? £27k.
Could you put 2 kids through private schools with that? Possibly, just. If you told them they can't have as much kit/books/trips as their classmates. And it wouldn't be a top school either.

Oh and you better pray like crazy that interest rates never go up. Or that neither of you ever loses your job. Or that the school fees don't exceed wage increases like they have done for virtually every single year for the last 30 years.

Oh and you have no savings either.

And no holidays, no eating out. No day trips. No visiting relatives.



Writing this makes me realise just how exclusive private schools really are, because on the one hand I'm saying a household earning £100k is wealthy. But I'm also justifying just how hard it is for that 'wealthy' household to pay for private schooling.


I guess the vast majority of PH'ers sending kids to private schools are either earning way north of £100k or they are very lucky to have generous parents.

It's no surprise private schools are becoming busier with expats kids, as UK salaries can't keep up.

The only figures I would debate are mortgage and commuting costs, you can buy houses in many places that are not the South East for half of that, also you are assuming no to little equity went into that house from a previous one.

I would contend if you were more frugal and made different choices on location then you could reasonably increase that £27k to £35k or more.

[rich1231]

FredClogs said:

Indeed, at least someone is being honest about it. The reason most aspirational parents splash out on public schools is because they believe they're buying membership to a club - I'm far too cynical to fall for that...

Apart from your arse, where do you pull your ideas from?

[anonymous-user]

oyster said:

What's left? £27k.
Could you put 2 kids through private schools with that? Possibly, just. If you told them they can't have as much kit/books/trips as their classmates.

I went to school with plenty of kids whose parents scrimped and saved every penny to keep their kids in school. Crappy old cars, no holidays etc... Plenty of people only there with the help of grandparents and always a handful dropping out here and there when things got too tight. I think you underestimate how far many parents will push themselves financially to afford school fees. My dad had a Volvo 240; no one should have to suffer that kind of automotive misery for their damn kids!

[NomduJour]

FredClogs said:

Indeed, at least someone is being honest about it. The reason most aspirational parents splash out on public schools is because they believe they're buying membership to a club - I'm far too cynical to fall for that...

Some might suggest your ignorance betrays a lack of education.