12-year-old playing with fake gun shot dead by Ohio police.

[Randomthoughts]

Chris Type R said:

So we're told. The dead 12 year old isn't around to present his account of what happened.

Nobody with any sense cares. He had a fake gun that had been modified to look real.

Much like morons driving down the motorway at 120mph+ in snow/rain/fog, doing this you deserve everything you get.

[hornetrider]

Elroy Blue said:

How I'd love to hear a UK Police chief speak to the press like this, but the message is very clear and very true

http://clashdaily.com/2014/11/boom-milwaukee-polic...

Wow. I can see that going viral. Very well spoken words.


















Also - sorry to be flip, but is it just me who hears Alan Alda?

[hornet]

Questions that come immediately to my mind :-

1) Why were the replica markings removed?
2) Was this done by the victim?
3) Did the parents know the replica markings had been removed?

If it transpires the victim was the one who removed the markings, the natural question has to be "why?". What reason does a 12 year old have to want what appears at first glance to be a real gun? If the answer to the third point is "yes", I can't comprehend why you'd knowingly allow your child to wander round wielding such a weapon, especially in light of previous police shootings and ongoing events in Ferguson.

I don't think I'll ever be able to comprehend US gun culture.

[Chris Type R]

Randomthoughts said:

Nobody with any sense cares. He had a fake gun that had been modified to look real.

Much like morons driving down the motorway at 120mph+ in snow/rain/fog, doing this you deserve everything you get.

How did we get from a 12 year old in a park being silly to adults driving recklessly in inclement weather ?

I doubt that any of us on this forum were in the park at the time and witnessed the event. I can't help but imagine that the response was heavy handed.

[XCP]

Why imagine anything if you weren't there and don't know the full facts? Better to keep an open mind surely?

[Randomthoughts]

hornet said:

1) Why were the replica markings removed?
2) Was this done by the victim?
3) Did the parents know the replica markings had been removed?

Valid questions, but I believe them to be largely irrelevant.

The only pertinent question is "Why did a 12 year old boy think it appropriate to have anything resembling a firearm in public?"

[hornet]

Fishtigua said:

B17NNS said:

'Is it because I is black?'

No, it's because you're stupid.

Police Officers have to deal with stupid every day, all over the world. It's strange that an unreasonable amount of young blacks get shot first.

You could spin that round and reasonably ask what is it about black youth culture that seems to increase the chances of ending up in situations where getting shot is a possible outcome?

[Du1point8]

Elroy Blue said:

How I'd love to hear a UK Police chief speak to the press like this, but the message is very clear and very true

http://clashdaily.com/2014/11/boom-milwaukee-polic...

some of the comments on that video are intense...

[toohuge]

I live in the US at the moment.....

The facts here are the "victim" failed to respond and corporate with the armed police officers. Despite what a lot of people like to believe on the internet, the police don't like to use deadly force - unless it is absolutely necessary.

Anyone on here that feels the police over reacted I would like for them to wonder around the US holding a replica firearm and waving it about and then when the police arrive, fail to comply and then subsequently reach for a (replica) gun and see the outcome... It's not rocket science.

There is an alarming 'gangster' culture rapidly evening in the US with many young members of society thinking they are untouchable by the law and can do whatever they like to whomever they like, this is growing in the UK too - case in point, the young teenagers that organised a rape of an innocent girl.

There is a saying that is used to death, live by the sword, die by the sword.


I have no sympathy for the 'victim' in this case. Brining race into this argument is pointless and irrelevant.

Shootings like this happen all that time in the US. In a country where deadly weapons are legal and the police are armed, you need to take the necessary precautions.

The argument about gun laws is laughable, if the gun laws were stricter, this incident would not have turned out any different, if anything, there would be less of an argument.

[Randomthoughts]

XCP said:

Why imagine anything if you weren't there and don't know the full facts? Better to keep an open mind surely?

This.

Facts we know:

Kid had a fake gun that had been modified to look like a real weapon. Intentionally.
Kid was out in public with the above modified fake gun.
Kid had been waving it around and pointing it at people.

At this point, the police turn up to a kid who has been waving a gun that doesn't have it's obvious marker that it's a fake, and then gets shot.

As I'm guessing the US Police are all too aware of the repercussions of shooting people following the recent riots, they probably didn't think 'that's him, pop a cap in his ass'. They probably told him to comply with some very specific instructions, and given that this kid has been shot twice, I'm guessing he hasn't complied. Eyewitness accounts suggest that this is the case, with him being told to put his hands up, and instead going for the fake gun.

Again, merely educated guesses but I figure the police know better than to shoot someone for a laugh. More intelligent certainly than someone who takes a fake gun out in public and waves it around, that's for sure.

[FourWheelDrift]

Randomthoughts said:

Valid questions, but I believe them to be largely irrelevant.

The only pertinent question is "Why did a 12 year old boy think it appropriate to have anything resembling a firearm in public?"

Never had a toy gun when you were young?

[Agoogy]

Elroy Blue said:

How I'd love to hear a UK Police chief speak to the press like this, but the message is very clear and very true

http://clashdaily.com/2014/11/boom-milwaukee-polic...

Promote this man immediately (not you Elroy )

[toohuge]

FourWheelDrift said:

Randomthoughts said:

Valid questions, but I believe them to be largely irrelevant.

The only pertinent question is "Why did a 12 year old boy think it appropriate to have anything resembling a firearm in public?"

Never had a toy gun when you were young?

I am sure that the three of us did have toy guns when we were younger. We a) didn't remove the markings to pass these off as real guns and b) if approached by anybody in authority (parent, teacher, police officer, armed police officer....) I imagine that the three of us would probably comply, in fear that we might get in trouble.

[Randomthoughts]

FourWheelDrift said:

Never had a toy gun when you were young?

I had a spud gun, a cap gun and a Super Soaker. The cap gun I used in mine and my neighbour's garden when we were playing 'Cops and Robbers' and 'Cowboys and Indians', the spud gun was fun for about five minutes in my own garden and the Super Soaker might have passed for a real weapon if you thought the Ghostbusters was real life.

And most certainly, I'd never have pointed any of them at an authority figure. I'd probably have burst into tears if Mr (or Mrs) Policeperson Officer was shouting at me pointing a gun at me telling me to do things.

In fact, I think my tear ducts and my cutting muscle would be the only parts of my body that moved.

[otolith]

BoRED S2upid said:

Crazy. Do they not have tasers or rubber bullets for such events? I'm so glad I live in this country and know my son isn't going to be shot for playing with a toy gun.

If you thought a person had a fake gun, would you feel the need to tazer him or shoot him with a baton round? If you thought that a person had a real gun, would you be willing to take him on with a tazer or baton round?

[Andehh]

Chris Type R said:

I think I read that the orange safety indicator bit that marked it out as a toy had also been removed.

It's all a sad story, which will inevitably lead to Racism, rioting and the police being blamed but when you read reports of the below.... It all comes back to a st upbringing, no respect for the law and a distinctly ignorant action taken by the "victim"....

" ......Tomba said one officer fired twice after the boy pulled the fake weapon from his waistband but had not pointed it at police. The boy did not make any verbal threats, but he grabbed the replica handgun after being told to raise his hands, Tomba said.
Williams said the "airsoft"-type pellet gun lacked the orange safety tip required at the time of sale and was indistinguishable from a real semiautomatic pistol..... "

Edited by Andehh on Tuesday 25th November 15:52

[fido]

Parents (or whoever supplied the kid with a fake gun) are solely to blame - it's plausible for a 12 year old to understand the concept but in the eyes of the law he was still a minor.

[downstairs]

I wonder why the news report quoted in the OP bothers to make so clear that the boy was black and that the 911 operator asked "twice" whether he was black or white, but then doesn't mention whether the responding officers were black or white? They seem to feel that race is quite key to the whole thing, even in their reporting - so it seems a bit remiss not to check that and put it in too.

[BlackLabel]

Randomthoughts said:

bks.

It's shocking that some poor copper had to respond to some scumbag waving a gun around that someone had intentionally modified to remove all obvious signs that it's a fake.

The sooner the world stops looking to excuse stupid behaviour, the better. The most offensive weapon I wandered around with in my youth was a Super Soaker. As a result, nobody shot me.

Entirely deserved by the scrote, and entirely expected of the chip-on-the-shoulder population over there that it was a 'poor, innocent kid who would sit all day eating ice cream and helping old ladies across the road' who was 'brutally murdered by a power-hungry racist cop'.

So a 12 year old does something stupid and acts irresponsibly and because of this he deserves to die? Perhaps he is responsible for his own fate but to suggest this child actually deserved this is a tad ott imo.

[aka_kerrly]

This is a bonkers story, at 12 years old you really ought to be clever enough to realise that waving a gun around isn't that clever let alone when an officer stands pointing a real gun at you and gives you instructions. You do as you're told and you don't end up dead.

Was the black kiddy a promising footballer ?