12-year-old playing with fake gun shot dead by Ohio police.
Discussion
downstairs said:
I wonder why the news report quoted in the OP bothers to make so clear that the boy was black and that the 911 operator asked "twice" whether he was black or white, but then doesn't mention whether the responding officers were black or white? They seem to feel that race is quite key to the whole thing, even in their reporting - so it seems a bit remiss not to check that and put it in too.
Amazing, isn't it. The operator couldn't possibly be asking so as to speed the identification of the individual with the gun, it was so that they could tell the cops that "dis nigga needs capped" or whatever the rioters over the next couple of days will look to have us believe.[Sarcasm]
Kid was probably playing with his gun, looked in a mirror and saw this:
Figuring that you can take on loads of police, then jump in their car and disappear into the next town never to be seen again, he probably fancied his chances.
[/Sarcasm]
We're heading for a world that reminds me of a scene in a film/TV program I saw a while ago, where a guy had to describe someone and was going through every obscure characteristic about the person he was identifying, who was the (only) black guy, but wouldn't say that it was the black guy...
lost for words by some of the comments here, truly shocking.
police are justified in shooting to kill 12 year old boys are they? who is playing with what he feels is a toy gun?
police would NOT have been looking for/able to see the orange safety markings even if they were present. nobody knows who removed them and nobody knows whether it was done with the intention of making the gun pass for a real one.
do the police not receive any training at all? surely competent highly trained police officers trusted with firearms are rational, calm and experienced enough to analyse the situation and make an appropriate response... if not then they should not be employed in that role.
police are justified in shooting to kill 12 year old boys are they? who is playing with what he feels is a toy gun?
police would NOT have been looking for/able to see the orange safety markings even if they were present. nobody knows who removed them and nobody knows whether it was done with the intention of making the gun pass for a real one.
do the police not receive any training at all? surely competent highly trained police officers trusted with firearms are rational, calm and experienced enough to analyse the situation and make an appropriate response... if not then they should not be employed in that role.
menousername said:
police would NOT have been looking for/able to see the orange safety markings even if they were present. nobody knows who removed them and nobody knows whether it was done with the intention of making the gun pass for a real one.
The only reason to remove them is to make it pass for a real one, and the police will have been looking for exactly that. When your life hangs in the arms of a 12 year old kid who has been reported as pointing a firearm at people who then, instead of putting his hands up, pulls out said firearm which then doesn't have the obvious orange markings, do you take your chances or risk that it's an unhinged kid, maybe like these guys:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulge...
I wouldn't be waiting to find out if I get to see my family that night, on the offchance that the kid with the gun has a fake one or isn't going to use it.
menousername said:
lost for words by some of the comments here, truly shocking.
police are justified in shooting to kill 12 year old boys are they? who is playing with what he feels is a toy gun?
police would NOT have been looking for/able to see the orange safety markings even if they were present. nobody knows who removed them and nobody knows whether it was done with the intention of making the gun pass for a real one.
do the police not receive any training at all? surely competent highly trained police officers trusted with firearms are rational, calm and experienced enough to analyse the situation and make an appropriate response... if not then they should not be employed in that role.
OK... kid was 12. Was he showing a birth certificate? Did he look 12? Even if he WAS 12, what's to say he's not capable of shooting a cop?police are justified in shooting to kill 12 year old boys are they? who is playing with what he feels is a toy gun?
police would NOT have been looking for/able to see the orange safety markings even if they were present. nobody knows who removed them and nobody knows whether it was done with the intention of making the gun pass for a real one.
do the police not receive any training at all? surely competent highly trained police officers trusted with firearms are rational, calm and experienced enough to analyse the situation and make an appropriate response... if not then they should not be employed in that role.
At what range did he shoot the kid? 10 feet, 50 feet? Could he even see the gun properly. The facts as we know it, he challenged the kid, who completely ignored him, and went for his gun. I am sure that the Police are trained, but I am equally sure that as part of their training, if they are under threat, it is their job to stop that threat.
Randomthoughts said:
Would you all be out defending the children in this case:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulge...
?
Children, like dogs, like all creatures, are the product of their guardians and custodians. Bring them up to behave that way, and they will behave that way.
I knew from age 5 that guns were bad, and from age of about 8 that running around with one was only going to end badly. I wasn't allowed my spud gun out of the garden, and I'd never have dreamt of pointing it at people. Ever.
You've really answered my question, you just haven't realised it. Do you think this kid had a similar upbringing to you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulge...
?
Children, like dogs, like all creatures, are the product of their guardians and custodians. Bring them up to behave that way, and they will behave that way.
I knew from age 5 that guns were bad, and from age of about 8 that running around with one was only going to end badly. I wasn't allowed my spud gun out of the garden, and I'd never have dreamt of pointing it at people. Ever.
If you do believe that we are completely the product of our guardians/custodians then don't you think that the blame should be aimed at them instead?
I think it's a horrible situation; it's neither the police officers fault, nor the kids - strictly the parents responsibility at this age.
menousername said:
lost for words by some of the comments here, truly shocking.
police are justified in shooting to kill 12 year old boys are they? who is playing with what he feels is a toy gun?
police would NOT have been looking for/able to see the orange safety markings even if they were present. nobody knows who removed them and nobody knows whether it was done with the intention of making the gun pass for a real one.
do the police not receive any training at all? surely competent highly trained police officers trusted with firearms are rational, calm and experienced enough to analyse the situation and make an appropriate response... if not then they should not be employed in that role.
You've never seen a US airsoft gun have you? The end of the barrel (at least 1-2 inches) is bright day-glo orange!police are justified in shooting to kill 12 year old boys are they? who is playing with what he feels is a toy gun?
police would NOT have been looking for/able to see the orange safety markings even if they were present. nobody knows who removed them and nobody knows whether it was done with the intention of making the gun pass for a real one.
do the police not receive any training at all? surely competent highly trained police officers trusted with firearms are rational, calm and experienced enough to analyse the situation and make an appropriate response... if not then they should not be employed in that role.
SpeedMattersNot said:
ou've really answered my question, you just haven't realised it. Do you think this kid had a similar upbringing to you?
I doubt it, I didn't eat that much fried chicken as a kid.[/Casual racism]
In all seriousness though, no, I don't imagine he had a similar upbringing. I wouldn't however attribute no responsibility to the child. There's enough of this people getting shot on the TV and whatnot and the riots over the other guy getting shot to suggest that the police are worth behaving in front of. Maybe largely the parent's responsibility. Not entirely.
I wish I could say this surprises me but it doesn't.
The amount of videos on tubeface with aggressive coppers treating anyone and everyone as wanted criminals is ridiculous.
They have mega problems there because of guns and what mystifies me is why they're so readily available and legal to own.
One failed shoe bomb attempt and the whole world has to take their shoes off at an airport. Meanwhile over 30 fatal shootings at schools in recent years and still no change to their gun laws.
Idiots.
The amount of videos on tubeface with aggressive coppers treating anyone and everyone as wanted criminals is ridiculous.
They have mega problems there because of guns and what mystifies me is why they're so readily available and legal to own.
One failed shoe bomb attempt and the whole world has to take their shoes off at an airport. Meanwhile over 30 fatal shootings at schools in recent years and still no change to their gun laws.
Idiots.
skyrover said:
This is the reason it's illegal to modify any toy gun in the USA to look like a real one.
The kid was clearly showing off to his mates and unfortunately paid the price.
Interestingly (to me anyway), Ohio permits the open carrying of firearms.The kid was clearly showing off to his mates and unfortunately paid the price.
wiki said:
Open carry
Ohio is a traditional open-carry state. The open-carry of firearms by those who legally possess the firearm is a legal activity in Ohio with or without a license. While legal, the practice is not common in urban areas and often results in police responding. Various cases of harassment by police on those open carrying have been documented. Furthermore one must have a concealed handgun license to carry a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle regardless of whether or not it is concealed.
Ohio is a traditional open-carry state. The open-carry of firearms by those who legally possess the firearm is a legal activity in Ohio with or without a license. While legal, the practice is not common in urban areas and often results in police responding. Various cases of harassment by police on those open carrying have been documented. Furthermore one must have a concealed handgun license to carry a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle regardless of whether or not it is concealed.
Du1point8 said:
Elroy Blue said:
How I'd love to hear a UK Police chief speak to the press like this, but the message is very clear and very true
http://clashdaily.com/2014/11/boom-milwaukee-polic...
some of the comments on that video are intense...http://clashdaily.com/2014/11/boom-milwaukee-polic...
it puts it in perspective what am impossible job the police have sometimes, doesn't it?
It simply isn't fair, the police are literally tied up in red tape and the crims have none, it isn't a level playing field.
EG. let a cop pin someone down with an ounce more pressure than determined appropriate in a calm courtroom and it's their job!!!
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