BTL as a pension fund - why not?
Discussion
tannhauser said:
steveT350C said:
vescaegg said:
tannhauser said:
Shove it up your arse. In a developed, and supposedly civilised country such as the UK; expectation of a decent standard of living/housing in return for an honest day's work is NOT an unreasonable expectation.
The reasons the younger generation are priced out are many; and it's not only because baby boomers have "had it good", and are living longer. How the masses at large cannot see this is absolutely astounding.
A one bed flat is an acceptable standard of living. I grew up on a council estate without two sticks to rub together and now live in my own 4 bed house in one of the most expensive parts of the country; I'm 28. The reasons the younger generation are priced out are many; and it's not only because baby boomers have "had it good", and are living longer. How the masses at large cannot see this is absolutely astounding.
My friends still live at home or in house shares. Guess what, they pissed off to uni doing b
ks for 3 or 4 years then 'still didn't know what they wanted to do' while I was working and I had enough for a deposit by the time they finished messing around. Now they are complaining their degrees haven't gotten them a £50k (or any!) job! They are not special; they are not owed anything just like I wasnt. Have a read of this.
http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-generation-y-yup...
It's spot on as far as I'm concerned.
Edited by vescaegg on Thursday 27th November 21:21
Tannhauser, may I suggest you stop blaming others. Suck it up, grow a pair and make like a man.
Vescaegg - you own your own house at 28? Well done. Or do you mean the bank owns it?
SteveT350C - I blame the short sightedness and greed of successive generations and governments, as well as bad luck/timing on my part. FYI I've worked hard, studied hard, and saved hard and have several years' salary in cash savings. Am I about to spunk it on overpriced pwopetee? Like s
te I am! I'm prepared to either sit it out, or fk of abroad with my savings and skills.'Property', has doubled in value every 10 years since 1942.
Is property overpriced, or is it just a bit scary for you to make the effort to take the plunge?
I am being harsh, but I will only give you good advice.
heppers75 said:
tannhauser said:
vescaegg said:
tannhauser said:
The smugness is palpable. But then this is PH.
Vescaegg - you own your own house at 28? Well done. Or do you mean the bank owns it?
SteveT350C - I blame the short sightedness and greed of successive generations and governments, as well as bad luck/timing on my part. FYI I've worked hard, studied hard, and saved hard and have several years' salary in cash savings. Am I about to spunk it on overpriced pwopetee? Like ste I am! I'm prepared to either sit it out, or fk of abroad with my savings and skills.
The bank owns some of it sure but I'm chipping away by overpaying each month. Do you want people to be able to buy a house outright? That may be a little ambitious....Vescaegg - you own your own house at 28? Well done. Or do you mean the bank owns it?
SteveT350C - I blame the short sightedness and greed of successive generations and governments, as well as bad luck/timing on my part. FYI I've worked hard, studied hard, and saved hard and have several years' salary in cash savings. Am I about to spunk it on overpriced pwopetee? Like s
te I am! I'm prepared to either sit it out, or fk of abroad with my savings and skills.You're being prudent paying back the capital - but many are not, and are way over-extended and in it over their heads on massive IO mortgages. They have no means or plan in place to pay it back - indeed a major s
tstorm is brewing when these mortgages come to an end. Same applies to monthly payments when rates inevitably rise.So I'd say for a single person, 3.5x earnings plus maybe 10% deposit. Average salary say 30k, therefore average 3 bed semi should be maybe 120k max... Not 160k, 180k +++ or whatever.
Property prices across the board are ridiculous. A friend of mine and his wife both earning circa six figure salaries in the north.. Recently purchased a rather nice, but pretty ordinary 4 bedroomed house for 400k.. Four hundred thousand pounds??!! That's not that far away from HALF A MILLION pounds!! When did we lose the concept of the value of money?!
tannhauser said:
Well historically it's been the case that you borrow 3.5x your earnings; or 2x on joint incomes. Though in the good old days, only one of the couple actually needed to work..
So I'd say for a single person, 3.5x earnings plus maybe 10% deposit. Average salary say 30k, therefore average 3 bed semi should be maybe 120k max... Not 160k, 180k +++ or whatever.
Property prices across the board are ridiculous. A friend of mine and his wife both earning circa six figure salaries in the north.. Recently purchased a rather nice, but pretty ordinary 4 bedroomed house for 400k.. Four hundred thousand pounds??!! That's not that far away from HALF A MILLION pounds!! When did we lose the concept of the value of money?!
Christ. I wish. You would cry if you came down to where I am....So I'd say for a single person, 3.5x earnings plus maybe 10% deposit. Average salary say 30k, therefore average 3 bed semi should be maybe 120k max... Not 160k, 180k +++ or whatever.
Property prices across the board are ridiculous. A friend of mine and his wife both earning circa six figure salaries in the north.. Recently purchased a rather nice, but pretty ordinary 4 bedroomed house for 400k.. Four hundred thousand pounds??!! That's not that far away from HALF A MILLION pounds!! When did we lose the concept of the value of money?!
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
I just take it as reality now. s
t. But reality. tannhauser said:
Shove it up your arse.
Quality.You think you are entitled to a '3/4 bed house' in exchange for 'an honest days work'? I'm afraid it never worked like that. I'm in my 30's, just; my parents bought their first house in their late 40's. So that would be a 3/4 bed house for 3 decades of honest work. Your sense of entitlement is comical.
tannhauser said:
heppers75 said:
tannhauser said:
vescaegg said:
tannhauser said:
The smugness is palpable. But then this is PH.
Vescaegg - you own your own house at 28? Well done. Or do you mean the bank owns it?
SteveT350C - I blame the short sightedness and greed of successive generations and governments, as well as bad luck/timing on my part. FYI I've worked hard, studied hard, and saved hard and have several years' salary in cash savings. Am I about to spunk it on overpriced pwopetee? Like ste I am! I'm prepared to either sit it out, or fk of abroad with my savings and skills.
The bank owns some of it sure but I'm chipping away by overpaying each month. Do you want people to be able to buy a house outright? That may be a little ambitious....Vescaegg - you own your own house at 28? Well done. Or do you mean the bank owns it?
SteveT350C - I blame the short sightedness and greed of successive generations and governments, as well as bad luck/timing on my part. FYI I've worked hard, studied hard, and saved hard and have several years' salary in cash savings. Am I about to spunk it on overpriced pwopetee? Like s
te I am! I'm prepared to either sit it out, or fk of abroad with my savings and skills.You're being prudent paying back the capital - but many are not, and are way over-extended and in it over their heads on massive IO mortgages. They have no means or plan in place to pay it back - indeed a major s
tstorm is brewing when these mortgages come to an end. Same applies to monthly payments when rates inevitably rise.So I'd say for a single person, 3.5x earnings plus maybe 10% deposit. Average salary say 30k, therefore average 3 bed semi should be maybe 120k max... Not 160k, 180k +++ or whatever.
Property prices across the board are ridiculous. A friend of mine and his wife both earning circa six figure salaries in the north.. Recently purchased a rather nice, but pretty ordinary 4 bedroomed house for 400k.. Four hundred thousand pounds??!! That's not that far away from HALF A MILLION pounds!! When did we lost the concept of the value of money?!
It is far from unique of course.
And yes you can buy a 3 bed house in the same village for £400k http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
My business partner lives in that village BTW and we live not too far away.
You can also go into the nearest town and get a 3 bed house with a garage for £125k http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
It is about adjusting your expectations... If you expect to live in a period property with an aga and land then a 3 bed house will cost you £400k! If you are happy to live in a town, in a pretty normal house then you can spend £125k.
steveT350C said:
tannhauser said:
steveT350C said:
vescaegg said:
tannhauser said:
Shove it up your arse. In a developed, and supposedly civilised country such as the UK; expectation of a decent standard of living/housing in return for an honest day's work is NOT an unreasonable expectation.
The reasons the younger generation are priced out are many; and it's not only because baby boomers have "had it good", and are living longer. How the masses at large cannot see this is absolutely astounding.
A one bed flat is an acceptable standard of living. I grew up on a council estate without two sticks to rub together and now live in my own 4 bed house in one of the most expensive parts of the country; I'm 28. The reasons the younger generation are priced out are many; and it's not only because baby boomers have "had it good", and are living longer. How the masses at large cannot see this is absolutely astounding.
My friends still live at home or in house shares. Guess what, they pissed off to uni doing b
ks for 3 or 4 years then 'still didn't know what they wanted to do' while I was working and I had enough for a deposit by the time they finished messing around. Now they are complaining their degrees haven't gotten them a £50k (or any!) job! They are not special; they are not owed anything just like I wasnt. Have a read of this.
http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-generation-y-yup...
It's spot on as far as I'm concerned.
Edited by vescaegg on Thursday 27th November 21:21
Tannhauser, may I suggest you stop blaming others. Suck it up, grow a pair and make like a man.
Vescaegg - you own your own house at 28? Well done. Or do you mean the bank owns it?
SteveT350C - I blame the short sightedness and greed of successive generations and governments, as well as bad luck/timing on my part. FYI I've worked hard, studied hard, and saved hard and have several years' salary in cash savings. Am I about to spunk it on overpriced pwopetee? Like s
te I am! I'm prepared to either sit it out, or fk of abroad with my savings and skills.'Property', has doubled in value every 10 years since 1942.
Is property overpriced, or is it just a bit scary for you to make the effort to take the plunge?
I am being harsh, but I will only give you good advice.
Yes I know that on average, property doubles every so often. Just right now, I think it's way overpriced. And yes, taking on property is (or bloody well should be) a big and potentially scary undertaking - a long term commitment.
There's also the small matter that I'm not sure where I want to be geographically - I can do without a millstone around my neck!
tannhauser said:
steveT350C said:
tannhauser said:
steveT350C said:
vescaegg said:
tannhauser said:
Shove it up your arse. In a developed, and supposedly civilised country such as the UK; expectation of a decent standard of living/housing in return for an honest day's work is NOT an unreasonable expectation.
The reasons the younger generation are priced out are many; and it's not only because baby boomers have "had it good", and are living longer. How the masses at large cannot see this is absolutely astounding.
A one bed flat is an acceptable standard of living. I grew up on a council estate without two sticks to rub together and now live in my own 4 bed house in one of the most expensive parts of the country; I'm 28. The reasons the younger generation are priced out are many; and it's not only because baby boomers have "had it good", and are living longer. How the masses at large cannot see this is absolutely astounding.
My friends still live at home or in house shares. Guess what, they pissed off to uni doing b
ks for 3 or 4 years then 'still didn't know what they wanted to do' while I was working and I had enough for a deposit by the time they finished messing around. Now they are complaining their degrees haven't gotten them a £50k (or any!) job! They are not special; they are not owed anything just like I wasnt. Have a read of this.
http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-generation-y-yup...
It's spot on as far as I'm concerned.
Edited by vescaegg on Thursday 27th November 21:21
Tannhauser, may I suggest you stop blaming others. Suck it up, grow a pair and make like a man.
Vescaegg - you own your own house at 28? Well done. Or do you mean the bank owns it?
SteveT350C - I blame the short sightedness and greed of successive generations and governments, as well as bad luck/timing on my part. FYI I've worked hard, studied hard, and saved hard and have several years' salary in cash savings. Am I about to spunk it on overpriced pwopetee? Like s
te I am! I'm prepared to either sit it out, or fk of abroad with my savings and skills.'Property', has doubled in value every 10 years since 1942.
Is property overpriced, or is it just a bit scary for you to make the effort to take the plunge?
I am being harsh, but I will only give you good advice.
Yes I know that on average, property doubles every so often. Just right now, I think it's way overpriced. Ad yes, taking on property is (or bloody well should be) a big and potentially scary undertaking - a long term commitment.
There's also the small matter that I'm not sure where I want to be geographically - I can do without a millstone around my neck!
vescaegg said:
tannhauser said:
Well historically it's been the case that you borrow 3.5x your earnings; or 2x on joint incomes. Though in the good old days, only one of the couple actually needed to work..
So I'd say for a single person, 3.5x earnings plus maybe 10% deposit. Average salary say 30k, therefore average 3 bed semi should be maybe 120k max... Not 160k, 180k +++ or whatever.
Property prices across the board are ridiculous. A friend of mine and his wife both earning circa six figure salaries in the north.. Recently purchased a rather nice, but pretty ordinary 4 bedroomed house for 400k.. Four hundred thousand pounds??!! That's not that far away from HALF A MILLION pounds!! When did we lose the concept of the value of money?!
Christ. I wish. You would cry if you came down to where I am....So I'd say for a single person, 3.5x earnings plus maybe 10% deposit. Average salary say 30k, therefore average 3 bed semi should be maybe 120k max... Not 160k, 180k +++ or whatever.
Property prices across the board are ridiculous. A friend of mine and his wife both earning circa six figure salaries in the north.. Recently purchased a rather nice, but pretty ordinary 4 bedroomed house for 400k.. Four hundred thousand pounds??!! That's not that far away from HALF A MILLION pounds!! When did we lose the concept of the value of money?!
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
I just take it as reality now. s
t. But reality. tload of money. Yes I'm well aware of the situation down south... Though don't you all earn huge salaries down there?!
steveT350C said:
tannhauser said:
steveT350C said:
tannhauser said:
steveT350C said:
vescaegg said:
tannhauser said:
Shove it up your arse. In a developed, and supposedly civilised country such as the UK; expectation of a decent standard of living/housing in return for an honest day's work is NOT an unreasonable expectation.
The reasons the younger generation are priced out are many; and it's not only because baby boomers have "had it good", and are living longer. How the masses at large cannot see this is absolutely astounding.
A one bed flat is an acceptable standard of living. I grew up on a council estate without two sticks to rub together and now live in my own 4 bed house in one of the most expensive parts of the country; I'm 28. The reasons the younger generation are priced out are many; and it's not only because baby boomers have "had it good", and are living longer. How the masses at large cannot see this is absolutely astounding.
My friends still live at home or in house shares. Guess what, they pissed off to uni doing b
ks for 3 or 4 years then 'still didn't know what they wanted to do' while I was working and I had enough for a deposit by the time they finished messing around. Now they are complaining their degrees haven't gotten them a £50k (or any!) job! They are not special; they are not owed anything just like I wasnt. Have a read of this.
http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-generation-y-yup...
It's spot on as far as I'm concerned.
Edited by vescaegg on Thursday 27th November 21:21
Tannhauser, may I suggest you stop blaming others. Suck it up, grow a pair and make like a man.
Vescaegg - you own your own house at 28? Well done. Or do you mean the bank owns it?
SteveT350C - I blame the short sightedness and greed of successive generations and governments, as well as bad luck/timing on my part. FYI I've worked hard, studied hard, and saved hard and have several years' salary in cash savings. Am I about to spunk it on overpriced pwopetee? Like s
te I am! I'm prepared to either sit it out, or fk of abroad with my savings and skills.'Property', has doubled in value every 10 years since 1942.
Is property overpriced, or is it just a bit scary for you to make the effort to take the plunge?
I am being harsh, but I will only give you good advice.
Yes I know that on average, property doubles every so often. Just right now, I think it's way overpriced. Ad yes, taking on property is (or bloody well should be) a big and potentially scary undertaking - a long term commitment.
There's also the small matter that I'm not sure where I want to be geographically - I can do without a millstone around my neck!
rovermorris999 said:
fblm said:
if you want lower UK house prices shrink your population or build more. It's not difficult.
The most sensible thing on this thread.Derek Chevalier said:
rovermorris999 said:
fblm said:
if you want lower UK house prices shrink your population or build more. It's not difficult.
The most sensible thing on this thread.tannhauser said:
Derek Chevalier said:
rovermorris999 said:
fblm said:
if you want lower UK house prices shrink your population or build more. It's not difficult.
The most sensible thing on this thread.Anyway Derek.. I have looked at the change in population and number of homes built and unsurprisingly it is correlated with real house prices, go back 40 years, much the same story. I'm going to keep buying UK property because the only way you are going to afford your budget deficits and debts is by growing GDP and the easiest way to do that is keep credit easy, rates low and increase population and if there's one thing modern politicians will always do its the easy thing. Feel free to laugh at me in 20 years if I'm wrong
(you also have to remember that on top of population growth, with the elderly living alone longer, people getting married later and getting divorced more; the number of people per household has fallen in the last 30 years from over 3 to under 2.5. That's a massive change. Between 2001 and 2011 the average number per house fell from 2.4 to 2.3; even with zero population increase that used up over 4% or 1 million households!)
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 28th November 03:42
vescaegg said:
I grew up on a council estate without two sticks to rub together and now live in my own 4 bed house in one of the most expensive parts of the country; I'm 28.
28 and banked 400-500k.... I would guess like most people, the house is leveraged against future earnings i.e. you've taken on debt! Regardless you're not the average (otherwise well done).Sorry to harp on about this but do you think its good for the economy to have so much capital tied up in unproductive assets?
For so many reasons that its too late to list, the UK economy is not on a sustainable trajectory. Credit expansion has not worked, we have no real growth and little demand to show for the increase in national debt and population (of which exacerbates the pitiful increase in housing stock since councils stopped building). Its depressing that people seem to miss the bigger picture with housing.
And while I'm at it, those graphs with ONS population statistics are inaccurate (polite term). There are no accurate UK population statistics.
fblm said:
tannhauser said:
Derek Chevalier said:
rovermorris999 said:
fblm said:
if you want lower UK house prices shrink your population or build more. It's not difficult.
The most sensible thing on this thread.Anyway Derek.. I have looked at the change in population and number of homes built and unsurprisingly it is correlated with real house prices, go back 40 years, much the same story. I'm going to keep buying UK property because the only way you are going to afford your budget deficits and debts is by growing GDP and the easiest way to do that is keep credit easy, rates low and increase population and if there's one thing modern politicians will always do its the easy thing. Feel free to laugh at me in 20 years if I'm wrong
(you also have to remember that on top of population growth, with the elderly living alone longer, people getting married later and getting divorced more; the number of people per household has fallen in the last 30 years from over 3 to under 2.5. That's a massive change. Between 2001 and 2011 the average number per house fell from 2.4 to 2.3; even with zero population increase that used up over 4% or 1 million households!)
Edited by fblm on Friday 28th November 03:42
Also, rents have kept broadly in line with inflation, so that doesn't really suggest there is a housing shortage. A good book to read is
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Houses-Historical-Analysis...
this looks at property prices over a few hundred years - 40 years isn't really sufficient as almost half has been while in a bubble period.
economicpygmy said:
28 and banked 400-500k.... I would guess like most people, the house is leveraged against future earnings i.e. you've taken on debt! Regardless you're not the average (otherwise well done).
Sorry to harp on about this but do you think its good for the economy to have so much capital tied up in unproductive assets?
Correct it's leveraged against my future which I hope will go ok. If I lose my job and can't pay then things will hit the fan but that's true if you are renting too. I like the fact that if I keep working hard, it will be paid off (in a long time mind). Sorry to harp on about this but do you think its good for the economy to have so much capital tied up in unproductive assets?
No I don't necessarily think it's a good idea for the whole economy to be based around house prices which lets face it is the case, otherwise the government wouldn't have done literally everything they could to prop them up.
And I wasn't boasting with my story, yes I have managed to get into a fairly good position but my overall point was against those who feel that house prices were out of reach due to the evils of others and those who think in this day and age it should be normal for them to be able to get a good house without really trying too much. As people have said, previous generations took decades to buy houses and let's face it, we have a much easier time generally now.
My point was that it is possible for most people, but most people don't necessarily think in the correct way to allow them to do it; they think education for as long as possible is key. I don't and worked early simply because I didnt know what I wanted to do. I lucked out in terms of career to be sure and it could've gone the other way but working hard with a goal in mind is important.
The only two people within my group of friends who have houses are those who didn't go to uni.
I think the biggest problem with future generations was that they believed a degree was a golden ticket to riches and a happy life.
tannhauser said:
fblm said:
Have you listened to yourself? Jesus. The world does not owe you a standard of living. The reason Joe can't afford a house like his parents did is that they had the gall to live far longer than the actuarial tables said they would when they were promised their pensions and healthcare for life. If only they would have the common decency to just stop being ill and die huh?
Shove it up your arse. In a developed, and supposedly civilised country such as the UK; expectation of a decent standard of living/housing in return for an honest day's work is NOT an unreasonable expectation.The reasons the younger generation are priced out are many; and it's not only because baby boomers have "had it good", and are living longer. How the masses at large cannot see this is absolutely astounding.
Why it should be apparently normal for children to have a lower standard than their parents in a supposedly growing economy is beyond me.
Government has created this mess, which has many facets from planning constraints to mass immigration, government needs to resolve it.
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