BTL as a pension fund - why not?
Discussion
heppers75 said:
wolves_wanderer said:
To be fair reading it back it isn't entirely clear.
I don't personally think BTL is especially helpful to first time buyers and I think there are too many amateur landlords who don't have a clue what they're doing, but it is only one factor and pales into insignificance compared to the limited housing supply. There are certainly plenty of places round here and in Leeds where I used to live that are still perfectly within reach of FTB regardless of the best efforts of evil landlords
Is there really any substance to this housing shortage though? I don't personally think BTL is especially helpful to first time buyers and I think there are too many amateur landlords who don't have a clue what they're doing, but it is only one factor and pales into insignificance compared to the limited housing supply. There are certainly plenty of places round here and in Leeds where I used to live that are still perfectly within reach of FTB regardless of the best efforts of evil landlords
I only ask because in practical terms if I go onto Rightmove and put in Northampton, Bedford, Cambridge or Birmingham and a max price of £150k and then do a search within a 40 mile radius it tops out on every single one and just says more than 1000 results.
I may be being rather simplistic here but if there genuinely was limited supply should we not expect that number to be far smaller? Now I am sure there are all manner of papers, studies and published works on why there is this etherial shortage but there has to come a point where you look at the practical data sat in front of you surely?
It seems to me that there are a whole bunch of people running around giving it the "we're all doomed" attitude and suggesting that there are queues of people waiting to buy FTB type value property and there is none to be had. Yet when you employ some simple ascertation of the facts as they stand in the real world then guess what... houses galore!
If I am missing something then by all means tell me what it is, I am all ears!
If you have 999 people wanting a property, and 1000 are for sale, then sellers will accept lower offers to make sure they get a sale. Then asking prices start to drop.
The volume for sale is only half of the story.
Edited by 98elise on Friday 28th November 17:47
Sonic said:
Justayellowbadge said:
Small bit of damage to a shower door, for instance. Easy fix, the sort of thing a landlord or decent agent would pick up on and sort in a morning.
Or don't, and wonder why, a year later, there's a 3 grand bill for the ceiling that's come down.
And here i am jamming towels into the leaky shower door and using a hairdryer on the wall and door downstairs to try and dry out the water and stop my LL's ceiling from coming through Or don't, and wonder why, a year later, there's a 3 grand bill for the ceiling that's come down.
6 months on and they still haven't replaced it despite having had the agent out 4 times and a plumber out twice, because they wont spend a few hundred quid on a new shower door.
If they'd allow me to take on a secure tenancy, say a year or longer, than i'd bloody well fix it myself. But when they insist on 6-months rent upfront every 6 months for a fixed-term then there's not a chance in hell.
Edited by Sonic on Friday 28th November 16:29
Sounds like a cock up, as it would already have cost the landlord a couple of hundred in fees.
Thing is, there is a middle ground between 'My rights, my rights, quiet enjoyment, I know my rights' and 'My landlord never bothers doing anything.'
98elise said:
heppers75 said:
wolves_wanderer said:
To be fair reading it back it isn't entirely clear.
I don't personally think BTL is especially helpful to first time buyers and I think there are too many amateur landlords who don't have a clue what they're doing, but it is only one factor and pales into insignificance compared to the limited housing supply. There are certainly plenty of places round here and in Leeds where I used to live that are still perfectly within reach of FTB regardless of the best efforts of evil landlords
Is there really any substance to this housing shortage though? I don't personally think BTL is especially helpful to first time buyers and I think there are too many amateur landlords who don't have a clue what they're doing, but it is only one factor and pales into insignificance compared to the limited housing supply. There are certainly plenty of places round here and in Leeds where I used to live that are still perfectly within reach of FTB regardless of the best efforts of evil landlords
I only ask because in practical terms if I go onto Rightmove and put in Northampton, Bedford, Cambridge or Birmingham and a max price of £150k and then do a search within a 40 mile radius it tops out on every single one and just says more than 1000 results.
I may be being rather simplistic here but if there genuinely was limited supply should we not expect that number to be far smaller? Now I am sure there are all manner of papers, studies and published works on why there is this etherial shortage but there has to come a point where you look at the practical data sat in front of you surely?
It seems to me that there are a whole bunch of people running around giving it the "we're all doomed" attitude and suggesting that there are queues of people waiting to buy FTB type value property and there is none to be had. Yet when you employ some simple ascertation of the facts as they stand in the real world then guess what... houses galore!
If I am missing something then by all means tell me what it is, I am all ears!
If you have 999 people wanting a property, and 1000 are for sale, then sellers will accept lower offers to make sure they get a sale. Then asking prices start to drop.
The volume for sale is only half of the story.
Edited by 98elise on Friday 28th November 17:47
It is in a developing and reasonably affluent midlands university town and not a student property either.
I can't speak for the rest of the country of course but there are seemingly thousands of properties available at very affordable prices, so at a macro level if that kind of inflation was a real thing then those properties at that price would not be there no?
Edited by heppers75 on Friday 28th November 18:28
tannhauser said:
fblm said:
tannhauser said:
I concur. What a complete a
hole.
You accidentally completely disagreed with the last person you concured with hole.Derek Chevalier said:
heppers75 said:
Is there really any substance to this housing shortage though?
No, otherwise rents would've rocketedWhich leads me to the conclusion that it is not at all that there are no properties available, however perhaps it is far more likely that there are not the properties that those looking want - which is a very different thing!
heppers75 said:
Very true, in fact the more you consider all of the facts the ones in the real world which would support the premise actually don't!
Which leads me to the conclusion that it is not at all that there are no properties available, however perhaps it is far more likely that there are not the properties that those looking want - which is a very different thing!
Or ... And I'm just throwing this out there as I know it's not very British. Lots of people don't actually want to buy a house! They actually want to rent from a mean old landlord. Which leads me to the conclusion that it is not at all that there are no properties available, however perhaps it is far more likely that there are not the properties that those looking want - which is a very different thing!
BoRED S2upid said:
Or ... And I'm just throwing this out there as I know it's not very British. Lots of people don't actually want to buy a house! They actually want to rent from a mean old landlord.
I agree its not British. Ive met a few people who rent out their home and rent for a few years near a work place but IME I dont know of a single person that wants to rent long term. I cant believe how desperate people get to own. From what Ive seen plenty of aspiring home owners go without and/or sign up for shared ownership on tiny anti-social noise ridden shoe-boxes just so they can call a place their own (which is normally the kind of place I target when staying away on a contract as Im tight ). I even met a girl who lived in a shed just so she could save up a deposit. heppers75 said:
98elise said:
heppers75 said:
wolves_wanderer said:
To be fair reading it back it isn't entirely clear.
I don't personally think BTL is especially helpful to first time buyers and I think there are too many amateur landlords who don't have a clue what they're doing, but it is only one factor and pales into insignificance compared to the limited housing supply. There are certainly plenty of places round here and in Leeds where I used to live that are still perfectly within reach of FTB regardless of the best efforts of evil landlords
Is there really any substance to this housing shortage though? I don't personally think BTL is especially helpful to first time buyers and I think there are too many amateur landlords who don't have a clue what they're doing, but it is only one factor and pales into insignificance compared to the limited housing supply. There are certainly plenty of places round here and in Leeds where I used to live that are still perfectly within reach of FTB regardless of the best efforts of evil landlords
I only ask because in practical terms if I go onto Rightmove and put in Northampton, Bedford, Cambridge or Birmingham and a max price of £150k and then do a search within a 40 mile radius it tops out on every single one and just says more than 1000 results.
I may be being rather simplistic here but if there genuinely was limited supply should we not expect that number to be far smaller? Now I am sure there are all manner of papers, studies and published works on why there is this etherial shortage but there has to come a point where you look at the practical data sat in front of you surely?
It seems to me that there are a whole bunch of people running around giving it the "we're all doomed" attitude and suggesting that there are queues of people waiting to buy FTB type value property and there is none to be had. Yet when you employ some simple ascertation of the facts as they stand in the real world then guess what... houses galore!
If I am missing something then by all means tell me what it is, I am all ears!
If you have 999 people wanting a property, and 1000 are for sale, then sellers will accept lower offers to make sure they get a sale. Then asking prices start to drop.
The volume for sale is only half of the story.
Edited by 98elise on Friday 28th November 17:47
It is in a developing and reasonably affluent midlands university town and not a student property either.
I can't speak for the rest of the country of course but there are seemingly thousands of properties available at very affordable prices, so at a macro level if that kind of inflation was a real thing then those properties at that price would not be there no?
Edited by heppers75 on Friday 28th November 18:28
In the past 4 years I've bought 4 properties for around the same price, but in the last year prices have jumped by 30%. The trigger was help to buy. I now can't find anything suitable that makes financial sense as rents are lagging. That said they are also on the way so its only a matter of time.
crankedup said:
I almost hardly dare suggest this! but wasn't it a certain P.M. named Thatcher that was such a strong advocate of buy your own home and sold Council housing stock...
This subject always raises a wry smile in me. My Father-in-Law is staunch socialist, Labour voter, reads The Mirror, hates Thatcher with a vengeance, thinks Tories re the scourge of the Earth...Retired to Somerset when he was 60'ish buying a bungalow on a new estate, he's 95 now, been there 35 years. He openly admits he'd never have been able to do any of this if he'd not bought his council house in Slough at a knock down price, doubling his money and thus providing the capital with which to buy his new bungalow.
Funny old world isn't it
Sharted said:
...You would need a repayment mortgage to ensure that it is paid off within your timescale...
Just working my way through the thread but why is this? If I buy a property age 60 with, say a 50/50 mortgage, why should I not use an interest only mortgage? I intend to use the rental income as part of my pension so I will never sell the property. When my sons inherit it they can either sell and pay of the mortgage or keep it. Why do I need a repayment mortgage? 
RichB said:
ust working my way through the thread but why is this? If I buy a property age 60 with, say a 50/50 mortgage, why should I not use an interest only mortgage? I intend to use the rental income as part of my pension so I will never sell the property. When my sons inherit it they can either sell and pay of the mortgage or keep it. Why do I need a repayment mortgage?
Would that make sense though, as a pension?Your rent would not be much greater than the mortgage payments even on IO, and you'll have costs on top.
If your are discounting capital appreciation you culd well get a better return from your 50% stake elsewhere.
Justayellowbadge said:
RichB said:
ust working my way through the thread but why is this? If I buy a property age 60 with, say a 50/50 mortgage, why should I not use an interest only mortgage? I intend to use the rental income as part of my pension so I will never sell the property. When my sons inherit it they can either sell and pay of the mortgage or keep it. Why do I need a repayment mortgage?
Would that make sense though, as a pension? Your rent would not be much greater than the mortgage payments even on IO, and you'll have costs on top. If your are discounting capital appreciation you culd well get a better return from your 50% stake elsewhere.Sharted said:
...You would need a repayment mortgage to ensure that it is paid off within your timescale which makes the rental income very important...
Edited by RichB on Saturday 29th November 16:55
Edited by RichB on Saturday 29th November 16:55
RichB said:
crankedup said:
I almost hardly dare suggest this! but wasn't it a certain P.M. named Thatcher that was such a strong advocate of buy your own home and sold Council housing stock...
This subject always raises a wry smile in me. My Father-in-Law is staunch socialist, Labour voter, reads The Mirror, hates Thatcher with a vengeance, thinks Tories re the scourge of the Earth...Retired to Somerset when he was 60'ish buying a bungalow on a new estate, he's 95 now, been there 35 years. He openly admits he'd never have been able to do any of this if he'd not bought his council house in Slough at a knock down price, doubling his money and thus providing the capital with which to buy his new bungalow.
Funny old world isn't it
heppers75 said:
wolves_wanderer said:
Oddly I wanted to own a house so that I would have somewhere to live that I knew I couldn't be kicked out of with 2 months notice, was allowed to decorate and didn't have to have people coming in inspecting it every few months. Not to mention paying my own mortgage instead of someone else's. House price inflation doesn't help me if the next house up is more expensive as well.
Don't worry though , we aren't trying to steal your capital gains
And you can, there are literally thousands of houses up and down the UK for sale right now for between £100k-£150k that a FTB could purchase, some within commuting distance of the capital and if you choose not to have a South East centric view of the country then plenty within large towns, cities, villages etc right up through the midlands and beyond. Don't worry though , we aren't trying to steal your capital gains
I really do fail to see the logic in anyone arguing what you are, it is almost like you are saying there simply are not any properties out there for anyone to buy, which is just utter crap!
Guybrush said:
Funny old world maybe; I'd say it's a predictable old world and one of the most predictable things is that a socialist is really an envious and resentful hypocrite.
We did used to have that discussion after a glass of red but over the last few years I don't rise to his bait Guybrush said:
RichB said:
crankedup said:
I almost hardly dare suggest this! but wasn't it a certain P.M. named Thatcher that was such a strong advocate of buy your own home and sold Council housing stock...
This subject always raises a wry smile in me. My Father-in-Law is staunch socialist, Labour voter, reads The Mirror, hates Thatcher with a vengeance, thinks Tories re the scourge of the Earth...Retired to Somerset when he was 60'ish buying a bungalow on a new estate, he's 95 now, been there 35 years. He openly admits he'd never have been able to do any of this if he'd not bought his council house in Slough at a knock down price, doubling his money and thus providing the capital with which to buy his new bungalow.
Funny old world isn't it
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