BTL as a pension fund - why not?

[Eric Mc]

Typical capitalist behaviour - feeling that they have the right to go OT but then moaning when somebody else does something similar.

Or am I thinking of communists?

Everybody is equal, but some are more equal than others

[RichB]

Eric Mc said:

Typical capitalist behaviour - feeling that they have the right to go OT but then moaning when somebody else does something similar.

Or am I thinking of communists?

Everybody is equal, but some are more equal than others

OK, so that makes Tony Blair a communist

[Eric Mc]

God knows what Tony Blair was/is.

Suggestions on a post card...

[crankedup]

RichB said:

This is not the place for it, it's a thread about pensions. I simply recounted my anecdote because Crampedup couldn't resist a chip at Maggie Thatcher.

I do my best.

Your anecdote is identical to our situation, my inlaws lived in a Council flat in Barking and had been Council tenants all their married lives. The chance to purchase their flat brought with it much angst, my late Father-in-law was constantly asking 'what should I do' about buying the flat and pondering why he should or should not buy the flat. My Brother-in-law also was on the listening and guidance end of the same questions. Fortunately both of us advised exactly the same, you should purchase and this is why. They took the advise and never for one moment regretted their actions.

And yet I am now able to recognise that the actual sale of social housing was nothing more than political engineering. Or maybe a chance to off load local government problems, perhaps a practical solution to the improvement of some run down housing areas into smarter well kept homes by proud owners. Nothing is ever as cut and dried as may appear I suppose.

Edited by crankedup on Sunday 30th November 12:12

[heppers75]

Fittster said:

heppers75 said:

wolves_wanderer said:

Oddly I wanted to own a house so that I would have somewhere to live that I knew I couldn't be kicked out of with 2 months notice, was allowed to decorate and didn't have to have people coming in inspecting it every few months. Not to mention paying my own mortgage instead of someone else's. House price inflation doesn't help me if the next house up is more expensive as well.

Don't worry though , we aren't trying to steal your capital gains

And you can, there are literally thousands of houses up and down the UK for sale right now for between £100k-£150k that a FTB could purchase, some within commuting distance of the capital and if you choose not to have a South East centric view of the country then plenty within large towns, cities, villages etc right up through the midlands and beyond.

I really do fail to see the logic in anyone arguing what you are, it is almost like you are saying there simply are not any properties out there for anyone to buy, which is just utter crap!

The average wage in the UK is 26.5K which gives a mortgage of about 80K and remember 50% of the population will be on less than that.

Ok I don't know about anyone else but both of my parents worked to afford a house? Also I know they scrimped and saved and did all they could including selling his motorbike to make up the last bit of the deposit. This enabled my parents to buy their first house in their late 20's which was on Goldsmith Street in Mansfield, when I was 4. Down which road the average house price seems to be more than within reach of a single earner.

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/mansfield/gol...

I am sure however all those folks on £26k a year don't want to live "somewhere like that" as it will be beneath their station!!!

Edited by heppers75 on Sunday 30th November 14:27

[RichB]

crankedup said:

I do my best.

I appreciate that And... you drove a Griff so you can't be all bad

[economicpygmy]

heppers75 said:

Fittster said:

heppers75 said:

wolves_wanderer said:

Oddly I wanted to own a house so that I would have somewhere to live that I knew I couldn't be kicked out of with 2 months notice, was allowed to decorate and didn't have to have people coming in inspecting it every few months. Not to mention paying my own mortgage instead of someone else's. House price inflation doesn't help me if the next house up is more expensive as well.

Don't worry though , we aren't trying to steal your capital gains

And you can, there are literally thousands of houses up and down the UK for sale right now for between £100k-£150k that a FTB could purchase, some within commuting distance of the capital and if you choose not to have a South East centric view of the country then plenty within large towns, cities, villages etc right up through the midlands and beyond.

I really do fail to see the logic in anyone arguing what you are, it is almost like you are saying there simply are not any properties out there for anyone to buy, which is just utter crap!

The average wage in the UK is 26.5K which gives a mortgage of about 80K and remember 50% of the population will be on less than that.

Ok I don't know about anyone else but both of my parents worked to afford a house? Also I know they scrimped and saved and did all they could including selling his motorbike to make up the last bit of the deposit. This enabled my parents to buy their first house in their late 20's which was on Goldsmith Street in Mansfield, when I was 4. Down which road the average house price seems to be more than within reach of a single earner.

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/mansfield/gol...

I am sure however all those folks on £26k a year don't want to live "somewhere like that" as it will be beneath their station!!!

Edited by heppers75 on Sunday 30th November 14:27

This assumption of yours that those people unwilling to compromise is simple not true. There are multiple issues with the housing market: credit availability, LTV, employment stability, affordability ratio...which are all dependant on area.

As you like zoopla so much: http://www.zoopla.co.uk/heatmaps/

[Rovinghawk]

Fittster said:

Are greedy, selfish capitalist hypocrital when they use state services?

Speaking for myself, I've paid plenty of tax for them. Perhaps others feel the same.

[Eric Mc]

And a privilege it is too.

[crankedup]

RichB said:

crankedup said:

I do my best.

I appreciate that And... you drove a Griff so you can't be all bad

Off topic by a mile but, my Tivving days are long gone but the happy memories will live with me forever. The Griff always wanted to fly off into a hedge, the SEAC just hated being in traffic but was magical in all other ways. The 400SE was a superb all rounder (if any TVR could be an all rounder)and the 350i the perfect intro into TVRring. All noisy and great fun. I still look at the 'new 350 and of course the mouth watering saggy.
Sorry folks it just had to be said, now back on topic :
Our son is already bundling pension packages, three at the moment from different employers + he has got his BTL investments. Expect he will shortly have another pension from the next employer as soon as he is tuped across.

[heppers75]

economicpygmy said:

heppers75 said:

Fittster said:

heppers75 said:

wolves_wanderer said:

Oddly I wanted to own a house so that I would have somewhere to live that I knew I couldn't be kicked out of with 2 months notice, was allowed to decorate and didn't have to have people coming in inspecting it every few months. Not to mention paying my own mortgage instead of someone else's. House price inflation doesn't help me if the next house up is more expensive as well.

Don't worry though , we aren't trying to steal your capital gains

And you can, there are literally thousands of houses up and down the UK for sale right now for between £100k-£150k that a FTB could purchase, some within commuting distance of the capital and if you choose not to have a South East centric view of the country then plenty within large towns, cities, villages etc right up through the midlands and beyond.

I really do fail to see the logic in anyone arguing what you are, it is almost like you are saying there simply are not any properties out there for anyone to buy, which is just utter crap!

The average wage in the UK is 26.5K which gives a mortgage of about 80K and remember 50% of the population will be on less than that.

Ok I don't know about anyone else but both of my parents worked to afford a house? Also I know they scrimped and saved and did all they could including selling his motorbike to make up the last bit of the deposit. This enabled my parents to buy their first house in their late 20's which was on Goldsmith Street in Mansfield, when I was 4. Down which road the average house price seems to be more than within reach of a single earner.

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/mansfield/gol...

I am sure however all those folks on £26k a year don't want to live "somewhere like that" as it will be beneath their station!!!

Edited by heppers75 on Sunday 30th November 14:27

This assumption of yours that those people unwilling to compromise is simple not true. There are multiple issues with the housing market: credit availability, LTV, employment stability, affordability ratio...which are all dependant on area.

As you like zoopla so much: http://www.zoopla.co.uk/

Showing "averages" is surely skewed though no? I mean if there are greater numbers of expensive properties then the average increases. That does not mean there are fewer cheaper ones.

[rovermorris999]

heppers75 said:

Showing "averages" is surely skewed though no? I mean if there are greater numbers of expensive properties then the average increases. That does not mean there are fewer cheaper ones.

It depends whether we're talking mean or median. 'Average' can be a moveable feast.

[heppers75]

rovermorris999 said:

heppers75 said:

Showing "averages" is surely skewed though no? I mean if there are greater numbers of expensive properties then the average increases. That does not mean there are fewer cheaper ones.

It depends whether we're talking mean or median. 'Average' can be a moveable feast.

Agreed..

So go on, give me the facts.... I swear to all that is Holy the second someone does I will say sorry and f**k me you were right and I was wrong...

Right now... It seems to me it is a piss poor house of cards created for reasons passing understanding!

You cannot deviate from the fact no matter what argument you wish to present that there are thousands of sub £150k properties available in the UK.. These are properties that are more than purchasable by the £25k a year folks... They might be where they WANT to live or what they THINK they are entitled to.. But they are homes they can own... Then they get to do what we all did, work their way up if they are good enough!

Edited by heppers75 on Sunday 30th November 20:13

[rovermorris999]

heppers75 said:

Agreed..

So go on, give me the facts.... I swear to all that is Holy the second someone does I will say sorry and f**k me you were right and I was wrong...

Right now... It seems to me it is a piss poor house of cards created for reasons passing understanding!

I have no opinion on the matter. Merely pointing out there are statistics and statistics.

[economicpygmy]

heppers75 said:

Then they get to do what we all did, work their way up if they are good enough! 20:13[/footnote]

That is increasingly unlikely as inflation trends upwards, credit avaliability and wages remain static.

Sustainable growth is an interesting phrase...

[heppers75]

economicpygmy said:

heppers75 said:

Then they get to do what we all did, work their way up if they are good enough! 20:13[/footnote]

That is increasingly unlikely as inflation trends upwards, credit avaliability and wages remain static.

Sustainable growth is an interesting phrase...

Is it really though?

Average wage = £26k a year, seemingly lots of housing stock available well within the multiples of that income for mortgage purposes.

The one thing that has always bothered me about the ever increasing bleating on about the increase in the "average" house price is the fact that is the real reason the average is going up because there are a greater number of expensive houses, or that housers in the middle and upper tiers have disproportionately increased in value, which does not mean there are fewer affordable ones?

I don't know if that is true, however when you actually bother to look at the houses that are out there for sale there does seem to be many thousands of them all over the country which are more than affordable on average wages.

Is it that there is an expectation that the average wage should be able to afford the average house?

[markcoznottz]

heppers75 said:

economicpygmy said:

heppers75 said:

Then they get to do what we all did, work their way up if they are good enough! 20:13[/footnote]

That is increasingly unlikely as inflation trends upwards, credit avaliability and wages remain static.

Sustainable growth is an interesting phrase...

Is it really though?

Average wage = £26k a year, seemingly lots of housing stock available well within the multiples of that income for mortgage purposes.

The one thing that has always bothered me about the ever increasing bleating on about the increase in the "average" house price is the fact that is the real reason the average is going up because there are a greater number of expensive houses, or that housers in the middle and upper tiers have disproportionately increased in value, which does not mean there are fewer affordable ones?

I don't know if that is true, however when you actually bother to look at the houses that are out there for sale there does seem to be many thousands of them all over the country which are more than affordable on average wages.

Is it that there is an expectation that the average wage should be able to afford the average house?

Yep, a culture of entitlement, everyone entitled to a 'nice' house. Not helped by tv showing fancy pads on dine with me, dinner date, hollyoaks etc etc etc. These tv chic shows do not accurately depict the interior of much of the housing stock in the UK.

[heppers75]

markcoznottz said:

heppers75 said:

economicpygmy said:

heppers75 said:

Then they get to do what we all did, work their way up if they are good enough! 20:13[/footnote]

That is increasingly unlikely as inflation trends upwards, credit avaliability and wages remain static.

Sustainable growth is an interesting phrase...

Is it really though?

Average wage = £26k a year, seemingly lots of housing stock available well within the multiples of that income for mortgage purposes.

The one thing that has always bothered me about the ever increasing bleating on about the increase in the "average" house price is the fact that is the real reason the average is going up because there are a greater number of expensive houses, or that housers in the middle and upper tiers have disproportionately increased in value, which does not mean there are fewer affordable ones?

I don't know if that is true, however when you actually bother to look at the houses that are out there for sale there does seem to be many thousands of them all over the country which are more than affordable on average wages.

Is it that there is an expectation that the average wage should be able to afford the average house?

Yep, a culture of entitlement, everyone entitled to a 'nice' house. Not helped by tv showing fancy pads on dine with me, dinner date, hollyoaks etc etc etc. These tv chic shows do not accurately depict the interior of much of the housing stock in the UK.

That is pretty much where I come at it from.

The issue is I would contend that the average house in price terms is not actually indicative of the actual average house. Then you have certain people assuming that they are 'entitled' to their view of an average house based on a combination of price and what they perceive based on what is portrayed to them and not at all based on what really is an average house.

[jdw1234]

Are you really likely to have an average waeg of £26k in areas where property is an affordable multiple of £26k though?

I.e. I highly doubt the average wage is £26k in the North of South West.

[rovermorris999]

It would be useful to look at the mode when considering house prices and incomes, that is the most common value, which would give a better idea of what Mr & Mrs Average can afford. Averages are too easily skewed by a few very high (or very low) numbers. Does anyone know where that information can be found?