Another year and another broken promise

[McWigglebum4th]

wolves_wanderer said:

Still, at least he's got rid of the deficit as promised.

And that nice referendum we had on europe

it was so nice to be asked

[Jimmyarm]

It was an outright lie when he said it, now it has been proven.

Whilst the immigration issue isn't my reasons behind backing UKIP, I am hopeful that another swathe of voters will have reason to vote for them because of this.

Our Polopitical eilte need a massive kick in the bks and the reasons for doing so just keep on coming

[BlackLabel]

Cameron and his supporters will use the 'if we win the election' caveat to get out of this one however does anyone really believe a Tory majority in this parliament would have changed the net immigration figure?

Edited by BlackLabel on Thursday 27th November 22:19

[voyds9]

BlackLabel said:

Cameron and his supporters will use the 'if we win the election' caveat to get out of this one however does anyone really believe a Tory majority in this parliament would have changed the net immigration figure?

Edited by BlackLabel on Thursday 27th November 22:19

I bet when he sits on the front bench he believes he won.

[Justayellowbadge]

crankedup said:

'No if's or but's immigration will be reduced to the tens of thousands', this was the promise made by our P.M. back in 2010. Immigration numbers just released show that immigration is now higher than at any time at 268,000 people (2013 - 2014) mainly from Poland Bulgaria and Romania.
Mr Cameron has just felt another nail being firmly hammered home. Glee for Mr Farage I would imagine. What a complete and utter shambles this E.U. is, thankfully we did not join the Euro monetary system.

As I understand it, if you remove EU from the figures, net migration is still 160,000 odd, so your 'mainly' is palpably bks.

[heppers75]

Justayellowbadge said:

crankedup said:

'No if's or but's immigration will be reduced to the tens of thousands', this was the promise made by our P.M. back in 2010. Immigration numbers just released show that immigration is now higher than at any time at 268,000 people (2013 - 2014) mainly from Poland Bulgaria and Romania.
Mr Cameron has just felt another nail being firmly hammered home. Glee for Mr Farage I would imagine. What a complete and utter shambles this E.U. is, thankfully we did not join the Euro monetary system.

As I understand it, if you remove EU from the figures, net migration is still 160,000 odd, so your 'mainly' is palpably bks.

JAYB there is so much of what he says that is palpably bks it becomes somewhat difficult to actually differentiate!

[cymtriks]

Why are we so much more attractive than other countries?

Judging by the numbers of Brits leaving there are plenty of people who have lived here who actually think that somewhere else is better.

Surely it can't just be the benefits system? Are UK jobs perceived as being highly paid? Is it a desire to learn English? Just fashionable?

[heppers75]

cymtriks said:

Why are we so much more attractive than other countries?

Judging by the numbers of Brits leaving there are plenty of people who have lived here who actually think that somewhere else is better.

Surely it can't just be the benefits system? Are UK jobs perceived as being highly paid? Is it a desire to learn English? Just fashionable?

One scenario...

If you are willing to live like a student in a house of 10 and work in say a car wash you can earn what is a fortune in your home countries terms and send it all back there, ot at least enough that your family can live a vastly different life to what they could if you worked in your native land.

Another...

If you are one of my lead developers who is Polish, lived here for 8 years now - his family flit back and forth but right now they are Poland. He lives in a crappy one bed rented flat in a pretty stty area but very close to work and drives a 13 year old Mondeo. I pay him a very good wage (well over £50k a year) and he sends well over 70% of that back to Poland where his wife is starting a beauty practice.

[Terminator X]

But almost without fail every single MP from every single party are simply bullstters, they will say whatever it takes to get in to power then spend 4 years doing whatever the fk they like followed by a nervous 12 months just before the next election. No wonder the %age of voters voting is so fking small

TX.

[Yazar]

heppers75 said:

One scenario...

If you are willing to live like a student in a house of 10 and work in say a car wash you can earn what is a fortune in your home countries terms and send it all back there, ot at least enough that your family can live a vastly different life to what they could if you worked in your native land.

Another...

If you are one of my lead developers who is Polish, lived here for 8 years now - his family flit back and forth but right now they are Poland. He lives in a crappy one bed rented flat in a pretty stty area but very close to work and drives a 13 year old Mondeo. I pay him a very good wage (well over £50k a year) and he sends well over 70% of that back to Poland where his wife is starting a beauty practice.

You cannot make arguments based on the one guy you know...

The distribution curve from the Labour Force Survey (ONS) clearly show that the vast majority of EUA8 migrants are in low skilled positions. There is no 'ifs or buts' about this.

[heppers75]

Yazar said:

heppers75 said:

One scenario...

If you are willing to live like a student in a house of 10 and work in say a car wash you can earn what is a fortune in your home countries terms and send it all back there, ot at least enough that your family can live a vastly different life to what they could if you worked in your native land.

Another...

If you are one of my lead developers who is Polish, lived here for 8 years now - his family flit back and forth but right now they are Poland. He lives in a crappy one bed rented flat in a pretty stty area but very close to work and drives a 13 year old Mondeo. I pay him a very good wage (well over £50k a year) and he sends well over 70% of that back to Poland where his wife is starting a beauty practice.

You cannot make arguments based on the one guy you know...

The distribution curve from the Labour Force Survey (ONS) clearly show that the vast majority of EUA8 migrants are in low skilled positions. There is no 'ifs or buts' about this.

My point is his story is not uncommon and I have come to know many of his friends and the Polish community and it is very much repeated.

But I would much rather trust government statistics... they are never wrong!!!

[Yazar]

heppers75 said:

My point is his story is not uncommon and I have come to know many of his friends and the Polish community and it is very much repeated.

But I would much rather trust government statistics... they are never wrong!!!

Must I repeat my post again? you know 1 polish guy, he has 10 friends you have got to know and a further 50 in the community. On top of this I will throw in a fact for you, just so you feel better - there are 2,300 Polish doctors working in the UK, just to help you stretch your weak argument further

Unfortunately there a 1million ish Poles in the UK. Can you now tell me the percentage you know?

Your experience is just that, your experience.

The Labour force survey is a global standard, most countries around the world do it. And BTW - Government statistics are weighted to show EU as a positive as much as they can, if anything numbers of low skilled is downplayed.

I can go on.

You know less than100 Poles in the UK? Do you also know that last year UK police had 845 incoming requests for extradition for Poles? The most of any EU country. 3,090 since 2009.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...Offenceand_Nationality.pdf

The system is broken and needs fixing. Yes to immigration based on quality, no to open borders.

[heppers75]

Yazar said:

heppers75 said:

My point is his story is not uncommon and I have come to know many of his friends and the Polish community and it is very much repeated.

But I would much rather trust government statistics... they are never wrong!!!

Must I repeat my post again? you know 1 polish guy, he has 10 friends you have got to know and a further 50 in the community. On top of this I will throw in a fact for you, just so you feel better - there are 2,300 Polish doctors working in the UK, just to help you stretch your weak argument further

Unfortunately there a 1million ish Poles in the UK. Can you now tell me the percentage you know?

Your experience is just that, your experience.

The Labour force survey is a global standard, most countries around the world do it. And BTW - Government statistics are weighted to show EU as a positive as much as they can, if anything numbers of low skilled is downplayed.

I can go on.

You know less than100 Poles in the UK? Do you also know that last year UK police had 845 incoming requests for extradition for Poles? The most of any EU country. 3,090 since 2009.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...Offenceand_Nationality.pdf

The system is broken and needs fixing. Yes to immigration based on quality, no to open borders.

Well it would seem you do have some rather pent up resentment there... I shall leave you to that.

It also seems that the point I was making which is that the reason it is broken is because it would seem, though of course my limited experience (I am interested to know yours BTW outside of being able to use Google!) that those "immigrants" are willing to do jobs and then work harder than our indigenous workshy morons would ever contemplate. You then couple with the fact that when they are skilled have a more socially and familialy responsible attitude which is far less selfish than the likes of most of the ingrates who were born here have.

Then I think you start to understand why "blaming immigration" is pretty much a fallacy. If we had the people in this country who were willing to do those jobs rather than the likes of the ones on the BTL thread who think they have the right to a £400k house then we might be less shafted as a nation!

[Yazar]

heppers75 said:

Well it would seem you do have some rather pent up resentment there... I shall leave you to that.

It also seems that the point I was making which is that the reason it is broken is because it would seem, though of course my limited experience (I am interested to know yours BTW outside of being able to use Google!) that those "immigrants" are willing to do jobs and then work harder than our indigenous workshy morons would ever contemplate. You then couple with the fact that when they are skilled have a more socially and familialy responsible attitude which is far less selfish than the likes of most of the ingrates who were born here have.

Then I think you start to understand why "blaming immigration" is pretty much a fallacy. If we had the people in this country who were willing to do those jobs rather than the likes of the ones on the BTL thread who think they have the right to a £400k house then we might be less shafted as a nation!

Happy to converse further, if you can assure me you are willing to
a) listen with clean slate and accept the real world maybe different beyond your life experience.
b) understand the concept of percentages. For example there are 30 Million people in employment in the UK and only 2 million ish EU migrants + 5.5Million ish non-eu. So since 75% (22.5 Million) jobs are being done by UK citizens, Would you now agree that your labelling them as 'indigenous workshy morons' cannot be correct?

[anonymous-user]

Terminator X said:

But almost without fail every single MP from every single party are simply bullstters, they will say whatever it takes to get in to power then spend 4 years doing whatever the fk they like followed by a nervous 12 months just before the next election. No wonder the %age of voters voting is so fking small

TX.

Pretty much this. They are all a fvcking disgrace.

[economicpygmy]

Yazar said:

b) understand the concept of percentages. For example there are 30 Million people in employment in the UK and only 2 million ish EU migrants + 5.5Million ish non-eu. So since 75% (22.5 Million) jobs are being done by UK citizens

Fantastic; reliable statistics which you got from...?

[wolves_wanderer]

heppers75 said:

Well it would seem you do have some rather pent up resentment there... I shall leave you to that.

It also seems that the point I was making which is that the reason it is broken is because it would seem, though of course my limited experience (I am interested to know yours BTW outside of being able to use Google!) that those "immigrants" are willing to do jobs and then work harder than our indigenous workshy morons would ever contemplate. You then couple with the fact that when they are skilled have a more socially and familialy responsible attitude which is far less selfish than the likes of most of the ingrates who were born here have.

Then I think you start to understand why "blaming immigration" is pretty much a fallacy. If we had the people in this country who were willing to do those jobs rather than the likes of the ones on the BTL thread who think they have the right to a £400k house then we might be less shafted as a nation!

Pathetic. You are as usual throwing a massive broad brush over two entire groups of people based on your limited experiences of both. FWIW in a previous job I worked with a large number of both immigrants and "indigenous workshy morons" and found them to be pretty similar in terms of attitude to a quality of work. I did notice was about 80% of our shoplifters were from Eastern Europe, what I'm not daft enough to do, unlike you, is to extrapolate my limited experiences to tens of millions of people.

[JagLover]

BlackLabel said:

Cameron and his supporters will use the 'if we win the election' caveat to get out of this one however does anyone really believe a Tory majority in this parliament would have changed the net immigration figure?

Edited by BlackLabel on Thursday 27th November 22:19

Yes it definitely would.

For starters we would be missing the target on non-EU migration alone and one key component of reducing this (restrictions on family reunification visas) was ruled unlawful by our courts. It is Tory policy to remove the Human Rights act from British law and they cant do that without a majority.

It is the same situation with renegotiating the terms of our EU membership. You cant do that while in coalition with the Lib-Dems.

If the Tories had had a majority since 2010 I would be judging them far more harshly.

[heppers75]

wolves_wanderer said:

heppers75 said:

Well it would seem you do have some rather pent up resentment there... I shall leave you to that.

It also seems that the point I was making which is that the reason it is broken is because it would seem, though of course my limited experience (I am interested to know yours BTW outside of being able to use Google!) that those "immigrants" are willing to do jobs and then work harder than our indigenous workshy morons would ever contemplate. You then couple with the fact that when they are skilled have a more socially and familialy responsible attitude which is far less selfish than the likes of most of the ingrates who were born here have.

Then I think you start to understand why "blaming immigration" is pretty much a fallacy. If we had the people in this country who were willing to do those jobs rather than the likes of the ones on the BTL thread who think they have the right to a £400k house then we might be less shafted as a nation!

Pathetic. You are as usual throwing a massive broad brush over two entire groups of people based on your limited experiences of both. FWIW in a previous job I worked with a large number of both immigrants and "indigenous workshy morons" and found them to be pretty similar in terms of attitude to a quality of work. I did notice was about 80% of our shoplifters were from Eastern Europe, what I'm not daft enough to do, unlike you, is to extrapolate my limited experiences to tens of millions of people.

Is it not nothing if not ironic to call someone pathetic, accuse them of making sweeping statements based on their own limited experience - then proceed to do exactly the same?

[heppers75]

Yazar said:

heppers75 said:

Well it would seem you do have some rather pent up resentment there... I shall leave you to that.

It also seems that the point I was making which is that the reason it is broken is because it would seem, though of course my limited experience (I am interested to know yours BTW outside of being able to use Google!) that those "immigrants" are willing to do jobs and then work harder than our indigenous workshy morons would ever contemplate. You then couple with the fact that when they are skilled have a more socially and familialy responsible attitude which is far less selfish than the likes of most of the ingrates who were born here have.

Then I think you start to understand why "blaming immigration" is pretty much a fallacy. If we had the people in this country who were willing to do those jobs rather than the likes of the ones on the BTL thread who think they have the right to a £400k house then we might be less shafted as a nation!

Happy to converse further, if you can assure me you are willing to
a) listen with clean slate and accept the real world maybe different beyond your life experience.
b) understand the concept of percentages. For example there are 30 Million people in employment in the UK and only 2 million ish EU migrants + 5.5Million ish non-eu. So since 75% (22.5 Million) jobs are being done by UK citizens, Would you now agree that your labelling them as 'indigenous workshy morons' cannot be correct?

I do not deny there will be evidence beyond my own experience, how that is classed as the real world however and any experience I have is not is a tad baffing!

So if there are 7.5 million non UK workers in the UK are there any statistics of credible source outside of either of our experience that tells us what sort of work they are doing?

My observations on it are (admittedly based on my own experiences) they are doing a fair amount of jobs that many of our own citizens would not be willing to do. Then the ones that I have experience of in more professional circles seem to be quite happy to live a lower standard of living in the UK than their income belies and send good portions of their earnings back home to families. However I fully admit that picture might not be played out on a macro level.