CIA lied over brutal interrogations
Discussion
Just hope you're not the next Westerner captured by an ISIS or Al-Qaeda hot-head seeking reprisal:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30401100
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30401100
I surprised there's bee no mention of this on PH.
From what I have heard on the news so far, the treatment handed out to these detainees by the US authorities is Shamefulll. And that's a polite description. Suspects kidnapped from their homes, in their own country, flown to secret locations, and then tortured! No wonder there are people in the Middle East who hate the US.
From what I have heard on the news so far, the treatment handed out to these detainees by the US authorities is Shamefulll. And that's a polite description. Suspects kidnapped from their homes, in their own country, flown to secret locations, and then tortured! No wonder there are people in the Middle East who hate the US.
JensenA said:
. No wonder there are people in the Middle East who hate the US.
Do you think it would have happened if 3000 people hadn't been killed in the 9/11 attacks by people from the Middle East?Everybody wants to sleep safe in their beds. Nobody wants to hear how that's achieved.
HD Adam said:
Everybody wants to sleep safe in their beds. Nobody wants to hear how that's achieved.
It is an awfully thin line that needs to be trodden IMO... Whenever I read these stories I am always reminded of this particular monologue... Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
The dichotomy is I am also a big believer in Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
Edited by heppers75 on Tuesday 9th December 19:43
I agree it's a very thin line.
Do I want to think that my kids can travel safely on the Tube?
Yes, of course.
Would I be happy if the Police picked up a potential bomber or somebody with information and tortured them to get the info that saved them?
Yes, of course.
Do I think the Police should be able to pick me up off the street and torture me?
Ah, no, hang on a minute.
Obviously, we all want it all ways but can't have it and I don't have an answer.
Do I want to think that my kids can travel safely on the Tube?
Yes, of course.
Would I be happy if the Police picked up a potential bomber or somebody with information and tortured them to get the info that saved them?
Yes, of course.
Do I think the Police should be able to pick me up off the street and torture me?
Ah, no, hang on a minute.
Obviously, we all want it all ways but can't have it and I don't have an answer.
EskimoArapaho said:
HD Adam said:
Everybody wants to sleep safe in their beds. Nobody wants to hear how that's achieved.
Wrong. Stop projecting your own morals on to other people. Some people want to hear how that's achieved and then have massive moany whinge to score political points from it.
Is that better?
davepoth said:
You'll no doubt feel a bit worse when the UK's involvement eventually becomes clear. We weren't just making the tea.
This will cost us millions. And many of the cases will just be paid out because it's too embarrassing or sensitive to have the details heard in court. article said:
A Libyan man can sue the UK government over claims he was illegally sent back to Libya and tortured, the Court of Appeal has ruled.
Abdul Hakim Belhaj alleges that former Foreign Secretary Jack Straw and MI6 were complicit in arranging his and his wife's rendition from China in 2004.
The High Court had ruled the case could not be heard in the UK courts because it could damage foreign relationships.
But appeal judges said the claims were so "grave" a court should hear them.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29831112Abdul Hakim Belhaj alleges that former Foreign Secretary Jack Straw and MI6 were complicit in arranging his and his wife's rendition from China in 2004.
The High Court had ruled the case could not be heard in the UK courts because it could damage foreign relationships.
But appeal judges said the claims were so "grave" a court should hear them.
article said:
A Pakistani man can sue the British Government over claims that he was detained unlawfully by UK soldiers before being held by American forces without charge for a decade, the High Court has ruled.
Yunus Rahmatullah, who was only released from custody this summer, was captured by British special forces in Iraq in 2004 and then allegedly transferred to American custody in the knowledge he faced further unlawful detention and torture
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/yunus-rahmatullah-can-sue-government-over-alleged-rendition-high-court-rules-9871450.htmlYunus Rahmatullah, who was only released from custody this summer, was captured by British special forces in Iraq in 2004 and then allegedly transferred to American custody in the knowledge he faced further unlawful detention and torture
Wow, we waterboarded and humiliated them......
How awful for them
Perhaps we should have stuck electric probes to their testicles and once they gave information we needed turned the power up and offered them to IMCGMOOH contestants.
They are animals and they deserve no respect whatsoever.
How awful for them
Perhaps we should have stuck electric probes to their testicles and once they gave information we needed turned the power up and offered them to IMCGMOOH contestants.
They are animals and they deserve no respect whatsoever.
ks to reports and stuff I get my extensive intelligence on all sorts of matters from Hollywood.....JensenA said:
I surprised there's bee no mention of this on PH.
From what I have heard on the news so far, the treatment handed out to these detainees by the US authorities is Shamefulll. And that's a polite description. Suspects kidnapped from their homes, in their own country, flown to secret locations, and then tortured! No wonder there are people in the Middle East who hate the US.
It is an incredible revelation.From what I have heard on the news so far, the treatment handed out to these detainees by the US authorities is Shamefulll. And that's a polite description. Suspects kidnapped from their homes, in their own country, flown to secret locations, and then tortured! No wonder there are people in the Middle East who hate the US.
If we ignore the moral implications of torture and beatings, a number of points come instantly to mind.
It doesn't take a lot of reading to realise that torture does not bring results, or at least results that compare to the more professional interrogation techniques. The best way for results is to form a relationship with the person, chat to them, laugh, talk about their friends.
The FBI techniques used to be taught around the world 'cause they were so good, so why use the CIA?
If you are dealing with a pro then they will have responses already planned to torture. If dealing with amateurs then there are much better ways.
On top of that there is the fallout from such behaviour. This will go around the world, although, to be fair, the propaganda machines would have said that they were doing this sort of thing anyway.
Shameful indeed. As is any part that we took in it.
The problem seems to be that those in charge will not accept the opinion of those who know. They would have been told that torture is, at best, undependable. They would have been told that it also loses a source that might well have been useful had proper techniques been used.
HD Adam said:
JensenA said:
. No wonder there are people in the Middle East who hate the US.
Do you think it would have happened if 3000 people hadn't been killed in the 9/11 attacks by people from the Middle East?Everybody wants to sleep safe in their beds. Nobody wants to hear how that's achieved.
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