CIA lied over brutal interrogations
Discussion
By any stretch of the imagination, the USA (and allies) has killed more innocent people in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan than multiples of the 9/11 attacks. I'm not arguing if this "collateral damage" was justified/needed or not; but it's worth thinking about to try and understand why and how some terrorists are created and how it acts as a great recruiting tool by some maniacs. "Cos they hate our way of life innit" is a pretty lazy premise and doesn't tell anywhere near the full story. However sadly, there are brainwashed and narrow-minded people on both ends of the spectrum and it's more often than not that the minorities can cause the greatest damage.
King 
said:
said:Jimbeaux said:
Idiot! 
I got that expression from 10 years on this U.K. based website and they are your allies. We are your allies yet are called Septics, what the hell does it matter? Go read this in your Leonardo Di Vinci decoder - LLORT. 
Maybe it hasn't occurred to you that PH isn't representative of the UK. The vast majority of British people no longer refer to other races by epithets, they realised it was rude and unnecessary. The people on here who use terms like 'frogs' tend to be reactionary dinosaurs, like you. If you go over to the current "I hate the french" type thread, not one person has referred to frogs, despite not liking French people. I got that expression from 10 years on this U.K. based website and they are your allies. We are your allies yet are called Septics, what the hell does it matter? Go read this in your Leonardo Di Vinci decoder - LLORT. I've never even heard of Americans being referred to as Septics either. Perhaps you need to mix with nicer people? It might help improve your unhealthy attitudes towards foreigners.
Septic Tanks - Yanks. A very well known and used slang for Americans.
Bit of a silly post of yours really.
drivin_me_nuts said:
I find this an interesting side dish to the recent internal conflicts within America.
It feels to me that America seems to be having a bit of an identity crisis.
Interesting point. There are definitely divisions and there is probably more internal conflict than in living memory. A lot of that is to do with the fact that there are unquestionably a large number of Americans who have yet to get over the fact that their country elected a black man President. And then elected him again! There has been a kind of mock outrage from the right about everything that Obama has tried to do and the underlying whiff of racism has pervaded a lot of what they have done. Whilst from the political classes that has usually been done with a nudge and a wink that has not been the case where their acolytes on talk radio are concerned. It feels to me that America seems to be having a bit of an identity crisis.
Divisions have been created where none should exist and to watch FOX news you would think the country was close to economic meltdown. The truth of course is that we have a vibrant economy, more jobs have been created this year than in any year under Bush, we have record stock markets, record company profits and consumer confidence way up on when Obama came in. We are told by the right that Obamacare is a disaster but since it's introduction the uninsured rate has dropped by 50%, health care inflation hit a 50 year low in 2013 and with the increased competition the ludicrous cost of healthcare is coming down at last.
We have a Republican congress that has obstructed everything the President has tried to do and created division in a most un American way and I believe that they have fostered tension, a lot of it racial at every turn. The left wing media are also responsible and have played up the racial aspects of everything for all they are worth but the damaging, vitriolic and plain abusive treatment of this American president by the right has been disgusting to see. You can expect a lot more too as Cheney and co go into an ever more desperate defense mode over these allegations.
DJRC said:
No, most of us still call the French "frogs". Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys has come into fairly widespread humorous use aswell. And unlike you Ive lived in France for over 20yrs
Septic Tanks - Yanks. A very well known and used slang for Americans.
Bit of a silly post of yours really.
Personally, I wouldn't boast about how ill mannered your acquaintances are, it might reflect poorly on you. Septic Tanks - Yanks. A very well known and used slang for Americans.
Bit of a silly post of yours really.
I've only spent about 5 years living and working in France and the only people I've met who called french people frogs were your typical overbearing ex pat types. You know, public school, overloud voices, red trousers and generally loathed by the french.
I've never heard the expression 'septics' and wouldn't dream of using it, the world has moved on since we had an Empire and called silly people names.
KareemK said:
Rovinghawk said:
pork911 said:
psgcarey said:
Does all this mean the US of A has officially withdrawn from the Geneva Convention, or is this one of those 'do as I say, not as I do' situations?
they've trampled over it for many yearsGot a link?
https://facthai.wordpress.com/2009/02/17/us-plans-...
King said:
said:DJRC said:
No, most of us still call the French "frogs". Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys has come into fairly widespread humorous use aswell. And unlike you Ive lived in France for over 20yrs
Septic Tanks - Yanks. A very well known and used slang for Americans.
Bit of a silly post of yours really.
Personally, I wouldn't boast about how ill mannered your acquaintances are, it might reflect poorly on you. Septic Tanks - Yanks. A very well known and used slang for Americans.
Bit of a silly post of yours really.
I've only spent about 5 years living and working in France and the only people I've met who called french people frogs were your typical overbearing ex pat types. You know, public school, overloud voices, red trousers and generally loathed by the french.
I've never heard the expression 'septics' and wouldn't dream of using it, the world has moved on since we had an Empire and called silly people names.
there's a world of difference between calling the Americans 'Septics' etc in jest, and it actually being intended as a serious insult. I can't believe it bothers any right minded person, any more than the many insults us British receive from time to time.
We are getting rather OT here though.
King said:
said:DJRC said:
No, most of us still call the French "frogs". Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys has come into fairly widespread humorous use aswell. And unlike you Ive lived in France for over 20yrs
Septic Tanks - Yanks. A very well known and used slang for Americans.
Bit of a silly post of yours really.
Personally, I wouldn't boast about how ill mannered your acquaintances are, it might reflect poorly on you. Septic Tanks - Yanks. A very well known and used slang for Americans.
Bit of a silly post of yours really.
I've only spent about 5 years living and working in France and the only people I've met who called french people frogs were your typical overbearing ex pat types. You know, public school, overloud voices, red trousers and generally loathed by the french.
I've never heard the expression 'septics' and wouldn't dream of using it, the world has moved on since we had an Empire and called silly people names.
Derek Smith said:
Is their a non Jimbo-centric thread on this important subject? Whilst we are all glad to hear that the republicans never hurt anyone, did not kill anyone, and certainly never told lies, it doesn't move us on from what has been a tremendous revelation.
In the same vein, you may also enjoy this, if you have not already seen it:
"The United States of America is awesome. We are awesome, but we've had this discussion" about torture, Tantaros said. She lamented, "the reason they want to have this discussion is not to show how awesome we are;" rather, "this administration wants to have this discussion to show us how we're not awesome." This is because "they apologized for this country, they don't like this country, they want us to look bad. And all this does is have our enemies laughing at us, that we are having this debate again."
https://news.yahoo.com/fox-news-host-torture-repor...
scherzkeks said:
In the same vein, you may also enjoy this, if you have not already seen it:
"The United States of America is awesome. We are awesome, but we've had this discussion" about torture, Tantaros said. She lamented, "the reason they want to have this discussion is not to show how awesome we are;" rather, "this administration wants to have this discussion to show us how we're not awesome." This is because "they apologized for this country, they don't like this country, they want us to look bad. And all this does is have our enemies laughing at us, that we are having this debate again."
https://news.yahoo.com/fox-news-host-torture-repor...
Jimbeaux said:
King said:
said:Jimbeaux said:
Idiot! I got that expression from 10 years on this U.K. based website and they are your allies. We are your allies yet are called Septics, what the hell does it matter? Go read this in your Leonardo Di Vinci decoder - LLORT.
Maybe it hasn't occurred to you that PH isn't representative of the UK. The vast majority of British people no longer refer to other races by epithets, they realised it was rude and unnecessary. The people on here who use terms like 'frogs' tend to be reactionary dinosaurs, like you. If you go over to the current "I hate the french" type thread, not one person has referred to frogs, despite not liking French people. I got that expression from 10 years on this U.K. based website and they are your allies. We are your allies yet are called Septics, what the hell does it matter? Go read this in your Leonardo Di Vinci decoder - LLORT. I've never even heard of Americans being referred to as Septics either. Perhaps you need to mix with nicer people? It might help improve your unhealthy attitudes towards foreigners.
unrepentant said:
John McCain shows why, even though he's misguided and still bitter about losing the 2008 election, he is a statesman.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/09/politics/mccain-laud...
Meanwhile Dick Cheney demonstrates once again that he is an utter disgrace to the office he once held.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/10/politics/dick-cheney...
A solid, illustrative post if ever there was one on this subject.http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/09/politics/mccain-laud...
Meanwhile Dick Cheney demonstrates once again that he is an utter disgrace to the office he once held.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/10/politics/dick-cheney...
180 times. 180 f
king times. Clearly torture.Even our marine [who was subjected to the law and convicted] just shot them in the head once...
scherzkeks said:
Derek Smith said:
Is their a non Jimbo-centric thread on this important subject? Whilst we are all glad to hear that the republicans never hurt anyone, did not kill anyone, and certainly never told lies, it doesn't move us on from what has been a tremendous revelation.
In the same vein, you may also enjoy this, if you have not already seen it:
"The United States of America is awesome. We are awesome, but we've had this discussion" about torture, Tantaros said. She lamented, "the reason they want to have this discussion is not to show how awesome we are;" rather, "this administration wants to have this discussion to show us how we're not awesome." This is because "they apologized for this country, they don't like this country, they want us to look bad. And all this does is have our enemies laughing at us, that we are having this debate again."
https://news.yahoo.com/fox-news-host-torture-repor...
I have an American friend who is almost tea-party and she vilifies Fox News. She used to send me links until I said 'enough already.'
I can't help thinking that the woman is right, but about Fox News. It enables their enemies to laugh at them.
Mojocvh said:
unrepentant said:
John McCain shows why, even though he's misguided and still bitter about losing the 2008 election, he is a statesman.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/09/politics/mccain-laud...
Meanwhile Dick Cheney demonstrates once again that he is an utter disgrace to the office he once held.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/10/politics/dick-cheney...
A solid, illustrative post if ever there was one on this subject.http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/09/politics/mccain-laud...
Meanwhile Dick Cheney demonstrates once again that he is an utter disgrace to the office he once held.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/10/politics/dick-cheney...
180 times. 180 f
king times. Clearly torture.Even our marine [who was subjected to the law and convicted] just shot them in the head once...
That just about sums it up.
His comments about the report justifying terrorist attacks is spot on as well.
scherzkeks said:
In the same vein, you may also enjoy this, if you have not already seen it:
"The United States of America is awesome. We are awesome, but we've had this discussion" about torture, Tantaros said. She lamented, "the reason they want to have this discussion is not to show how awesome we are;" rather, "this administration wants to have this discussion to show us how we're not awesome." This is because "they apologized for this country, they don't like this country, they want us to look bad. And all this does is have our enemies laughing at us, that we are having this debate again."
https://news.yahoo.com/fox-news-host-torture-repor...
HD Adam said:
I agree it's a very thin line.
Do I want to think that my kids can travel safely on the Tube?
Yes, of course.
Would I be happy if the Police picked up a potential bomber or somebody with information and tortured them to get the info that saved them?
Yes, of course.
Do I think the Police should be able to pick me up off the street and torture me?
Ah, no, hang on a minute.
Obviously, we all want it all ways but can't have it and I don't have an answer.
There is only one answer and it is never going to be the politically correct one that the do gooders would like.In which case we can only hope that those enforcing the law know what they are doing by applying what needs to be done selectively,proportionally and to the right people. Do I want to think that my kids can travel safely on the Tube?
Yes, of course.
Would I be happy if the Police picked up a potential bomber or somebody with information and tortured them to get the info that saved them?
Yes, of course.
Do I think the Police should be able to pick me up off the street and torture me?
Ah, no, hang on a minute.
Obviously, we all want it all ways but can't have it and I don't have an answer.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GvNc24yQZA
In this case there's probably no way that the CIA would have been acting without the go ahead of the NSA.In which case the CIA are just acting as a Patsy to cover for their guvnors.Who ( hopefully ) knew exactly what they were doing,proportionally in line with the potential threat,to the right people,with good enough reason.In line with your former example.
Mojocvh said:
Jimbeaux said:
King said:
said:Jimbeaux said:
Idiot! I got that expression from 10 years on this U.K. based website and they are your allies. We are your allies yet are called Septics, what the hell does it matter? Go read this in your Leonardo Di Vinci decoder - LLORT.
Maybe it hasn't occurred to you that PH isn't representative of the UK. The vast majority of British people no longer refer to other races by epithets, they realised it was rude and unnecessary. The people on here who use terms like 'frogs' tend to be reactionary dinosaurs, like you. If you go over to the current "I hate the french" type thread, not one person has referred to frogs, despite not liking French people. I got that expression from 10 years on this U.K. based website and they are your allies. We are your allies yet are called Septics, what the hell does it matter? Go read this in your Leonardo Di Vinci decoder - LLORT. I've never even heard of Americans being referred to as Septics either. Perhaps you need to mix with nicer people? It might help improve your unhealthy attitudes towards foreigners.
XJ Flyer said:
HD Adam said:
I agree it's a very thin line.
Do I want to think that my kids can travel safely on the Tube?
Yes, of course.
Would I be happy if the Police picked up a potential bomber or somebody with information and tortured them to get the info that saved them?
Yes, of course.
Do I think the Police should be able to pick me up off the street and torture me?
Ah, no, hang on a minute.
Obviously, we all want it all ways but can't have it and I don't have an answer.
There is only one answer and it is never going to be the politically correct one that the do gooders would like.In which case we can only hope that those enforcing the law know what they are doing by applying what needs to be done selectively,proportionally and to the right people. Do I want to think that my kids can travel safely on the Tube?
Yes, of course.
Would I be happy if the Police picked up a potential bomber or somebody with information and tortured them to get the info that saved them?
Yes, of course.
Do I think the Police should be able to pick me up off the street and torture me?
Ah, no, hang on a minute.
Obviously, we all want it all ways but can't have it and I don't have an answer.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GvNc24yQZA
In this case there's probably no way that the CIA would have been acting without the go ahead of the NSA.In which case the CIA are just acting as a Patsy to cover for their guvnors.Who ( hopefully ) knew exactly what they were doing,proportionally in line with the potential threat,to the right people,with good enough reason.In line with your former example.
Has anyone bothered to listen to President Obama's own head of the CIA today? He gave a news conference. I would think that you all might like to hear more than one side of a story before taking up pitchforks and torches. This report was not made by the Senate Intelligence Committee, that was just the name it was released under. The report was begun, five years ago, and completed by Dem Senator Feinstein's staff; a staff of mainly idealistic left leaning west coast youngsters. Ask yourself for a moment; would you believe without question a report written solely by the staff of one of the Labour party's leaders? Answer truthfully?
Edited by Jimbeaux on Saturday 13th December 05:00
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff