Who is most hated - Thatcher or Blair

[andymadmak]

crankedup said:

andymadmak said:

crankedup said:

When a sentence is written or the spoken word that commences with 'actually' it can be certain the person delivering has a certain pomposity of believing they are in some way superior.

Actually, if you do your home work you will find that Thatcher began (Big Bang)deregulation and Brown finished the job off.

Yes, but Cranky, we have discussed this before. Mrs Thatcher did indeed start deregulation. But what she left in place was pretty secure. What Brown did was decimate regulation.

Think of it like your local builder. You want a window putting in and he does the job. He tells you the maximum size window you can instal is 1m2 due to the load bearing nature of the wall and such like. He does the job, instals all the appropriate reinforcements and lintels etc. You have a good window and a safe house.

Then a few years later you decide you want a bigger window, despite the original advice that 1m2 was all you could have. Another builder comes in and does the job and doubles the size of the window, but he is not sensible and bodges the whole thing, ignores structural requirements, does not instal reinforcements, lintels etc.

Then the house falls down due to the load bearing wall being structurally compromised.....

Is it

a) the original builders fault
b) the second builders fault
c) your fault for wanting a bigger window
d) your fault for believing the second builder over the advice of the first (and proven to be competent) builder
e) other

It is completely unreasonable to bring Brown and his misdemeanour's into the thread in as much as my posts are concerned. None of my posts have sought to support Brown or his policies.
I was told 'Actually' by some pretentious poster that, in response to my assertion Thatcher deregulated(big Bang) the poster came back telling me I was wrong. I wasn't he was and deserved to be told as much.
What Thatcher left in place wasn't pretty secure though, prior to her interference it was secure. Look at all the insider dealing, banks brought down by rogue traders, yes Brown finished the job she started. If we go back before these idiots meddled we seemed to have confidence in our financial system, Brown was a prat but Thatcher, so far as this is concerned was as bad.

OK, well, you are entitled to your view, but I think my builder/window analogy is on the money. You seem to be suggesting that builder number one is the man at fault for putting the original window in, and that builder number two is somehow less culpable because all he did was expand on the initial works. You fail to recognise that the wall would still be standing if builder number 2 had not screwed things up.

[Rovinghawk]

crankedup said:

I was told 'Actually' by some pretentious poster

Pretentious? Moi?
Don't deflect attention onto my first word, please address the point made. If G.Brown didn't screw it all up, why did he feel the need to apologise for doing so? My point ('actually') is that Thatcher didn't screw it up as you claim.

crankedup said:

telling me I was wrong. I wasn't he was

At the risk of descending to pantomime, Oh no I wasn't, Oh yes you were.

The financial cognoscenti seem to score Thatcher ok on this one.

[legzr1]

Seems obvious in hindsight but the 'most hated' was never going to be the one who packed a few quid into the pockets of the pollsters.

Is there anyone on here who has made quite a tidy sum and a nice living from a once-public now privatised sector?

I'm thinking things like homes for the elderly/ care homes/ respite once the preserve of local government but now farmed out to the private sector which has created quite a few millionaires along with a steady flow of minimum wage jobs with crap terms & conditions.

[crankedup]

andymadmak said:

crankedup said:

andymadmak said:

crankedup said:

When a sentence is written or the spoken word that commences with 'actually' it can be certain the person delivering has a certain pomposity of believing they are in some way superior.

Actually, if you do your home work you will find that Thatcher began (Big Bang)deregulation and Brown finished the job off.

Yes, but Cranky, we have discussed this before. Mrs Thatcher did indeed start deregulation. But what she left in place was pretty secure. What Brown did was decimate regulation.

Think of it like your local builder. You want a window putting in and he does the job. He tells you the maximum size window you can instal is 1m2 due to the load bearing nature of the wall and such like. He does the job, instals all the appropriate reinforcements and lintels etc. You have a good window and a safe house.

Then a few years later you decide you want a bigger window, despite the original advice that 1m2 was all you could have. Another builder comes in and does the job and doubles the size of the window, but he is not sensible and bodges the whole thing, ignores structural requirements, does not instal reinforcements, lintels etc.

Then the house falls down due to the load bearing wall being structurally compromised.....

Is it

a) the original builders fault
b) the second builders fault
c) your fault for wanting a bigger window
d) your fault for believing the second builder over the advice of the first (and proven to be competent) builder
e) other

It is completely unreasonable to bring Brown and his misdemeanour's into the thread in as much as my posts are concerned. None of my posts have sought to support Brown or his policies.
I was told 'Actually' by some pretentious poster that, in response to my assertion Thatcher deregulated(big Bang) the poster came back telling me I was wrong. I wasn't he was and deserved to be told as much.
What Thatcher left in place wasn't pretty secure though, prior to her interference it was secure. Look at all the insider dealing, banks brought down by rogue traders, yes Brown finished the job she started. If we go back before these idiots meddled we seemed to have confidence in our financial system, Brown was a prat but Thatcher, so far as this is concerned was as bad.

OK, well, you are entitled to your view, but I think my builder/window analogy is on the money. You seem to be suggesting that builder number one is the man at fault for putting the original window in, and that builder number two is somehow less culpable because all he did was expand on the initial works. You fail to recognise that the wall would still be standing if builder number 2 had not screwed things up.

I am not disagreeing, merely saying Thatcher started de-regulation, some poster decided this was not the case. That's it, I do accept your analogy as fair and reasoned.
I agree Brown went further, I accept that. In the final analysis the bankers took full advantage of the political interference of both Governments offering them the golden opportunity to develop the maelstrom of virtual bankruptcy.

[crankedup]

Rovinghawk said:

crankedup said:

I was told 'Actually' by some pretentious poster

Pretentious? Moi?
Don't deflect attention onto my first word, please address the point made. If G.Brown didn't screw it all up, why did he feel the need to apologise for doing so? My point ('actually') is that Thatcher didn't screw it up as you claim.

crankedup said:

telling me I was wrong. I wasn't he was

At the risk of descending to pantomime, Oh no I wasn't, Oh yes you were.

The financial cognoscenti seem to score Thatcher ok on this one.

(Actually the)first word reflects exactly what I went onto say, Its full of pomposity and arrogance when used in the context such as your post. You know its true and you used the 'Actually' for that effect. I have offered my side of the debate. Now show me the evidence that the 'financial cognoscenti' deem thatchers deregulation (big bang) OK. That seems very vague OK. I mean OK for who, what.

[crankedup]

legzr1 said:

Seems obvious in hindsight but the 'most hated' was never going to be the one who packed a few quid into the pockets of the pollsters.

Is there anyone on here who has made quite a tidy sum and a nice living from a once-public now privatised sector?

I'm thinking things like homes for the elderly/ care homes/ respite once the preserve of local government but now farmed out to the private sector which has created quite a few millionaires along with a steady flow of minimum wage jobs with crap terms & conditions.

IIRC one of the first public sector areas to be put up for privatisation was the Public Parks and maintenance. Not sure how much truth may lay in the story that Dennis Thatcher had major shareholdings in a grounds maintenance company involved in the early bidding processes.

[whoami]

crankedup said:

II Not sure how much truth may lay in the story that Dennis Thatcher had major shareholdings in a grounds maintenance company involved in the early bidding processes.

So why did you post it then?

[legzr1]

crankedup said:

IIRC one of the first public sector areas to be put up for privatisation was the Public Parks and maintenance. Not sure how much truth may lay in the story that Dennis Thatcher had major shareholdings in a grounds maintenance company involved in the early bidding processes.

All rumours as far as I know.

Similar noises were made when investment in the railways was slashed and road building increased dramatically - some directors of Tarmac made a killing but that's politics for you - certainly not limited to one party.

Certainly less in the limelight than cash for questions / honours

[crankedup]

whoami said:

crankedup said:

II Not sure how much truth may lay in the story that Dennis Thatcher had major shareholdings in a grounds maintenance company involved in the early bidding processes.

So why did you post it then?

Something you may not understand but I will give you a try. Because I am hoping another poster may know the truth.

Edited by crankedup on Wednesday 17th December 19:10

[crankedup]

legzr1 said:

crankedup said:

IIRC one of the first public sector areas to be put up for privatisation was the Public Parks and maintenance. Not sure how much truth may lay in the story that Dennis Thatcher had major shareholdings in a grounds maintenance company involved in the early bidding processes.

All rumours as far as I know.

Similar noises were made when investment in the railways was slashed and road building increased dramatically - some directors of Tarmac made a killing but that's politics for you - certainly not limited to one party.

Certainly less in the limelight than cash for questions / honours

Cheers for that, I did wonder if it were true or not.
Seems a poster on this forum isn't aware that forums can be used to ask questions! Likely to busy, with the one track mind, trying to be obnoxious whilst in reality make themselves look like a dick.

[hairyben]

Getragdogleg said:

Both as hated but the people that hate Blair hate him for different reasons to those who hated Thatcher.

The Blair haters are less likely to make a song and dance about it and hold the grudge for the next 30 years and are more likely to shrug and think "that's politics" whereas the Thatcher haters are more of the knee jerk-never forget mindset.

Dunno why this thread has run to 27 pages when the first reply encapsulated it.

Thatcher hating isn't a political ideal so much as a lifestyle statement.

[don4l]

crankedup said:

IIRC one of the first public sector areas to be put up for privatisation was the Public Parks and maintenance. Not sure how much truth may lay in the story that Dennis Thatcher had major shareholdings in a grounds maintenance company involved in the early bidding processes.

Utterly disgusting post.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[loafer123]

Was parks maintenance even privatised? When I see park keepers (admittedly not a daily occurrence!) they are in council vans....

[smegmore]

don4l said:

crankedup said:

IIRC one of the first public sector areas to be put up for privatisation was the Public Parks and maintenance. Not sure how much truth may lay in the story that Dennis Thatcher had major shareholdings in a grounds maintenance company involved in the early bidding processes.

Utterly disgusting post.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Why?

I don't see any accusation in crankedup's post, only yourself coming over all precious at the thought that the spouse of MT may have taken a chance on a business opportunity, as businessmen sometimes do.

Have a word with yourself.

[andymadmak]

don4l said:

Utterly disgusting post.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Agreed. But Cranky is a bit of an old lefty, so for him casually besmirching the reputation of a decent man like Dennis Thatcher is easy - the odd innuendo here, a seemingly innocent question there,......... Its all good stuff for people like Cranky, just so long as the old man you're taking a pop at was a Conservative and is now dead so unable to defend himself. It does not count as being rude or offensive as far as Cranky and those like him are concerned. Conservatives are fair game you see, you can say what you like about thm, and all your bien pensant chums will nod approvingly and mentally slap you on your back for thinking in the right way.
The sad bit is that Cranky is not a stupid man. In fact, aside from some truly nutty ideas and occasionally displaying bizarre levels of naievity and idealism, he is , I am sure, a decent bloke.

[legzr1]

Of all the vitriolic posts on here, that one seems a strange one to get all offended and pretentious over.

Right-wingers - strange fkers...

[smegmore]

legzr1 said:

Of all the vitriolic posts on here, that one seems a strange one to get all offended and pretentious over.

Right-wingers - strange fkers...

Yarp...

[andymadmak]

legzr1 said:

Of all the vitriolic posts on here, that one seems a strange one to get all offended and pretentious over.

Right-wingers - strange fkers...

Vitriol is easy to deal with. We can all see it for what it is. Casual innuendo directed at a decent bloke because he was MTs. husband is just wrong,.

[Kermit power]

hairyben said:

Dunno why this thread has run to 27 pages when the first reply encapsulated it.

It's because every time you think it's all over, someone pops up a week later to start it up again!

Edited by Kermit power on Wednesday 24th December 08:34

[Asterix]

It's all about differing methods to boil a frog.