Gunman Takes Hostages In Sydney Cafe, 'ISIS' Flags Held

[PRTVR]

Bill said:

Which is probably why he was on bail: just a common or garden scumbag rather than an obvious threat.

No, a common or garden scumbag doesn't hold people hostage, does not put religious flags up at the window, he may be a nutter, but he is a Muslim nutter, the actions were carried out as terrorism, to terrorise people.

Have a look at the make up of terrorism in 2013, you will see its made up of mostly Muslim groups.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-30086435

[Bill]

PRTVR said:

No, a common or garden scumbag doesn't hold people hostage, does not put religious flags up at the window, he may be a nutter, but he is a Muslim nutter, the actions were carried out as terrorism, to terrorise people.

Have a look at the make up of terrorism in 2013, you will see its made up of mostly Muslim groups.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-30086435

Which bits of Tonker's post do you disagree with?

[Eric Mc]

PRTVR said:

No, a common or garden scumbag doesn't hold people hostage, does not put religious flags up at the window, he may be a nutter, but he is a Muslim nutter, the actions were carried out as terrorism, to terrorise people.

Have a look at the make up of terrorism in 2013, you will see its made up of mostly Muslim groups.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-30086435

At the moment. 30 years ago it was Irish, Palestinian or extreme left wing groups (Black September etc). In 30 years it will be somebody else.

In a world increasingly dominated by 24 hour intense media coverage, "terrorism" of this type is with us to stay.

On occasions, people with a grudge against society will latch on to terrorist causes in order to justify and legitimise (in their mind) their anger- as they did in this case.

[PRTVR]

Bill said:

PRTVR said:

No, a common or garden scumbag doesn't hold people hostage, does not put religious flags up at the window, he may be a nutter, but he is a Muslim nutter, the actions were carried out as terrorism, to terrorise people.

Have a look at the make up of terrorism in 2013, you will see its made up of mostly Muslim groups.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-30086435

Which bits of Tonker's post do you disagree with?

It was your post I disagreed with, that's why I quoted it.
Do you disagree with my post?

[superkartracer]

Eric Mc said:

PRTVR said:

No, a common or garden scumbag doesn't hold people hostage, does not put religious flags up at the window, he may be a nutter, but he is a Muslim nutter, the actions were carried out as terrorism, to terrorise people.

Have a look at the make up of terrorism in 2013, you will see its made up of mostly Muslim groups.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-30086435

At the moment. 30 years ago it was Irish, Palestinian or extreme left wing groups (Black September etc). In 30 years it will be somebody else.

In a world increasingly dominated by 24 hour intense media coverage, "terrorism" of this type is with us to stay.

On occasions, people with a grudge against society will latch on to terrorist causes in order to justify and legitimise (in their mind) their anger- as they did in this case.

Yeah but this lot are on a different scale, they will at some point nuke a city.

[PRTVR]

Eric Mc said:

PRTVR said:

No, a common or garden scumbag doesn't hold people hostage, does not put religious flags up at the window, he may be a nutter, but he is a Muslim nutter, the actions were carried out as terrorism, to terrorise people.

Have a look at the make up of terrorism in 2013, you will see its made up of mostly Muslim groups.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-30086435

At the moment. 30 years ago it was Irish, Palestinian or extreme left wing groups (Black September etc). In 30 years it will be somebody else.

In a world increasingly dominated by 24 hour intense media coverage, "terrorism" of this type is with us to stay.

On occasions, people with a grudge against society will latch on to terrorist causes in order to justify and legitimise (in their mind) their anger- as they did in this case.

I agree Eric, but some on here do not appear to accept that at present, the justification is based around a certain belief, how ever twisted.

[Cobnapint]

Bill said:

Which is probably why he was on bail: just a common or garden scumbag rather than an obvious threat.

The 7/7 bombers weren't considered 'obvious threats' before they did what they did.

Nor were the two wastes of oxygen that killed Lee Rugby.

Nor was the shoe-bomber, or the tt that stormed the Canadian parliament, or jihaddy John, etc, etc.

Most of them previously used the democratic rights they were given to spout their st, then the mo-circuit breaker tripped. Therefore, we may have to consider changing what we consider an obvious threat in the future.

[WinstonWolf]

trashbat said:

creampuff said:

Of course Islam isn't a race. It's a religion. With an unusually high proportion of violent nutters who are happy to kill strangers.

What do you think of the Irish these days?

I'm a lot happier since they stopped blowing us up.

[fishballs]

Cobnapint said:

Bill said:

Which is probably why he was on bail: just a common or garden scumbag rather than an obvious threat.

The 7/7 bombers weren't considered 'obvious threats' before they did what they did.

Nor were the two wastes of oxygen that killed Lee Rugby.

Nor was the shoe-bomber, or the tt that stormed the Canadian parliament, or jihaddy John, etc, etc.

Most of them previously used the democratic rights they were given to spout their st, then the mo-circuit breaker tripped. Therefore, we may have to consider changing what we consider an obvious threat in the future.

But wouldn't you concede that here in the uk we have been very good at foiling these plots.

[croyde]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Goes off to take his beta blockers, aspirin and calcium blockers. I'll leave the statins until later.

[JagLover]

cookie118 said:

Many on here say Islam needs to get its st in order and fight the extremists while ignoring the fact that the people fighting and losing their lives defending against IS are mostly Muslim.

The problem is the hate that gets stirred up-the 'Islam is a horrible religion' is exactly what the nutters want, Australia dealt with it best with the 'I'll ride with you' tag.

It's the same every time with events like this on NP&E

Some nutjob(s) decide to have a go in the deluded view that they're doing right by their god and all of a sudden some PHer's closet racism isn't so hidden any more while the victims and events are forgotten after the first 10 or so pages.

Many religions have issues. The Old Testament isn't a barrel of laughs either and Jesus seems to have been fairly unique in preaching a religion of peace and tolerance. Islam seems to have the most problems however and those saying it is extremists misrepresenting Islam have two fundamental problems in that

a) Most of what they propose is in the Koran (Burkhas and the like aren't but the rest is)
b) Islam was always a religion carried at the point of a sword. There isn't the same tradition of peaceful conversion and most of the lands that now practice Islam were conquered by either Arab armies in the first wave, or by later nomadic tribesmen who had adopted Islam (such as the Ottoman Turks or the Mughal's in India).

It is up to the people who live in those lands to find a way to reconcile their beliefs with the modern world. What we need to do in the west is simply say enough is enough. We will integrate those here as best we can and hope in time for them to adopt a more secular outlook. But there should be no further migration from Muslim lands.

[trashbat]

WinstonWolf said:

I'm a lot happier since they stopped blowing us up.

With 4.6 million of them at it, it's a wonder they didn't get you.

[fishballs]

JagLover said:

cookie118 said:

Many on here say Islam needs to get its st in order and fight the extremists while ignoring the fact that the people fighting and losing their lives defending against IS are mostly Muslim.

The problem is the hate that gets stirred up-the 'Islam is a horrible religion' is exactly what the nutters want, Australia dealt with it best with the 'I'll ride with you' tag.

It's the same every time with events like this on NP&E

Some nutjob(s) decide to have a go in the deluded view that they're doing right by their god and all of a sudden some PHer's closet racism isn't so hidden any more while the victims and events are forgotten after the first 10 or so pages.

Many religions have issues. The Old Testament isn't a barrel of laughs either and Jesus seems to have been fairly unique in preaching a religion of peace and tolerance. Islam seems to have the most problems however and those saying it is extremists misrepresenting Islam have two fundamental problems in that

a) Most of what they propose is in the Koran (Burkhas and the like aren't but the rest is)
b) Islam was always a religion carried at the point of a sword. There isn't the same tradition of peaceful conversion and most of the lands that now practice Islam were conquered by either Arab armies in the first wave, or by later nomadic tribesmen who had adopted Islam (such as the Ottoman Turks or the Mughal's in India).

It is up to the people who live in those lands to find a way to reconcile their beliefs with the modern world. What we need to do in the west is simply say enough is enough. We will integrate those here as best we can and hope in time for them to adopt a more secular outlook. But there should be no further migration from Muslim lands.

Someone will be along soon to tell you what a racist pig you are but the truth hurts

[robinessex]

Elroy Blue said:

lewisf182 said:

What a fking pointless waste of life. I fking hate religion....

Surely they could have taken him out countless times when he came up to windows etc? I know films arent like real life but surely they have a sniper capable enough to make that shot at a relatively small distance? Cant see how letting it get to this stage helped at all, 2 innocent people dead.

The body has a remarkable ability to survive gunshots. It most certainly isn't like the films. You shoot, he survives, there's an awfully lot of dead hostages. Shooting through windows is not recommended.

A hit from a 0.5 Barrett sniper rifle from 50mtrs wouldn't leave anyone in a fit state to do anything, glass window in the way or not. British snipers in Afghanistan were taking out the Taliban at 1.5 MILES distance.

The rifle



The bullet

Edited by robinessex on Tuesday 16th December 09:57

[fishballs]

robinessex said:

Elroy Blue said:

lewisf182 said:

What a fking pointless waste of life. I fking hate religion....

Surely they could have taken him out countless times when he came up to windows etc? I know films arent like real life but surely they have a sniper capable enough to make that shot at a relatively small distance? Cant see how letting it get to this stage helped at all, 2 innocent people dead.

The body has a remarkable ability to survive gunshots. It most certainly isn't like the films. You shoot, he survives, there's an awfully lot of dead hostages. Shooting through windows is not recommended.

A hit from a 0.5 Barrett sniper rifle from 50mtrs wouldn't leave anyone in a fit state to do anything, glass window in the way or not. British snipers in Afghanistan were taking out the Taliban at 1.5 MILES distance.

im sure they thought of the obvious. clearly it was considered too risky

[andy_s]

This event is pretty small beer compared to other events across the globe.
RIP nonetheless for those caught up in this violence.

[Oakey]

robinessex said:

A hit from a 0.5 Barrett sniper rifle from 50mtrs wouldn't leave anyone in a fit state to do anything, glass window in the way or not. British snipers in Afghanistan were taking out the Taliban at 1.5 MILES distance.

The rifle



The bullet

Edited by robinessex on Tuesday 16th December 09:57

Right, because they're obviously going to be using that in an urban environment. The aim isn't to take out the hostage taker, five hostages and a car 200metres down the road.

[TobyLaRohne]

Oakey said:

robinessex said:

A hit from a 0.5 Barrett sniper rifle from 50mtrs wouldn't leave anyone in a fit state to do anything, glass window in the way or not. British snipers in Afghanistan were taking out the Taliban at 1.5 MILES distance.

The rifle



The bullet

Edited by robinessex on Tuesday 16th December 09:57

Right, because they're obviously going to be using that in an urban environment. The aim isn't to take out the hostage taker, five hostages and a car 200metres down the road.

Overkill...

On PH????

Surely not!

[simo1863]

robinessex said:

A hit from a 0.5 Barrett sniper rifle from 50mtrs wouldn't leave anyone in a fit state to do anything, glass window in the way or not. British snipers in Afghanistan were taking out the Taliban at 1.5 MILES distance.

The rifle



The bullet

Edited by robinessex on Tuesday 16th December 09:57

But you'd kill anyone in front, behind and probably immediately to the sides of the gunman. You don't want to be putting a large calibre round like that into a small space full of people.

Even if you don't get hit by the round or it's shockwave it's going to be throwing all kinds of fragments and debris around.

[SplatSpeed]

Oakey said:

robinessex said:

A hit from a 0.5 Barrett sniper rifle from 50mtrs wouldn't leave anyone in a fit state to do anything, glass window in the way or not. British snipers in Afghanistan were taking out the Taliban at 1.5 MILES distance.

The rifle



The bullet

Edited by robinessex on Tuesday 16th December 09:57

Right, because they're obviously going to be using that in an urban environment. The aim isn't to take out the hostage taker, five hostages and a car 200metres down the road.

maybe we should!! send a message!!