Gunman Takes Hostages In Sydney Cafe, 'ISIS' Flags Held
Discussion
robinessex said:
Elroy Blue said:
lewisf182 said:
What a f
king pointless waste of life. I fking hate religion....
Surely they could have taken him out countless times when he came up to windows etc? I know films arent like real life but surely they have a sniper capable enough to make that shot at a relatively small distance? Cant see how letting it get to this stage helped at all, 2 innocent people dead.
The body has a remarkable ability to survive gunshots. It most certainly isn't like the films. You shoot, he survives, there's an awfully lot of dead hostages. Shooting through windows is not recommended.king pointless waste of life. I fking hate religion....Surely they could have taken him out countless times when he came up to windows etc? I know films arent like real life but surely they have a sniper capable enough to make that shot at a relatively small distance? Cant see how letting it get to this stage helped at all, 2 innocent people dead.
The rifle
The bullet
Edited by robinessex on Tuesday 16th December 09:57
fishballs said:
Someone will be along soon to tell you what a racist pig you are but the truth hurts
I thought we worked out before that "muslim" isn't a race. If you are going to insult somebody, best not pick an insult which is obviously factually incorrect. And make it a bit more subtle, as well as not obviously factually incorrect.fishballs said:
But wouldn't you concede that here in the uk we have been very good at foiling these plots.
Yes, apart from 7/7 and Woolwich.They probably need more resources as well to combat the increasing number of a
holes walking our streets.The problem isn't going away anytime soon.
simo1863 said:
But you'd kill anyone in front, behind and probably immediately to the sides of the gunman. You don't want to be putting a large calibre round like that into a small space full of people.
Even if you don't get hit by the round or it's shockwave it's going to be throwing all kinds of fragments and debris around.
It is a big bullet, it isn't a magic bullet. It can't magically kill everyone in the room or even the people next to the target, although they probably would end up a bit messy. Even if you don't get hit by the round or it's shockwave it's going to be throwing all kinds of fragments and debris around.
However I doubt that the NSW police have such a weapon. They would have assault rifles which are perhaps not accurate enough and too small a calibre to penetrate glass and then go on to be effective and they would perhaps have some 7.62mm sniper rifle.
creampuff said:
It is a big bullet, it isn't a magic bullet. It can't magically kill everyone in the room or even the people next to the target, although they probably would end up a bit messy.
However I doubt that the NSW police have such a weapon. They would have assault rifles which are perhaps not accurate enough and too small a calibre to penetrate glass and then go on to be effective and they would perhaps have some 7.62mm sniper rifle.
I read somewhere that disintegrating shards of bone hit with high velocity bullets can have the same effect as shrapnel.However I doubt that the NSW police have such a weapon. They would have assault rifles which are perhaps not accurate enough and too small a calibre to penetrate glass and then go on to be effective and they would perhaps have some 7.62mm sniper rifle.
creampuff said:
It is a big bullet, it isn't a magic bullet. It can't magically kill everyone in the room or even the people next to the target, although they probably would end up a bit messy.
However I doubt that the NSW police have such a weapon. They would have assault rifles which are perhaps not accurate enough and too small a calibre to penetrate glass and then go on to be effective and they would perhaps have some 7.62mm sniper rifle.
I read somewhere that disintegrating shards of bone hit with high velocity bullets can have the same effect as shrapnel.However I doubt that the NSW police have such a weapon. They would have assault rifles which are perhaps not accurate enough and too small a calibre to penetrate glass and then go on to be effective and they would perhaps have some 7.62mm sniper rifle.
Oakey said:
robinessex said:
A hit from a 0.5 Barrett sniper rifle from 50mtrs wouldn't leave anyone in a fit state to do anything, glass window in the way or not. British snipers in Afghanistan were taking out the Taliban at 1.5 MILES distance.
The rifle
The bullet
Right, because they're obviously going to be using that in an urban environment. The aim isn't to take out the hostage taker, five hostages and a car 200metres down the road. The rifle
The bullet
Edited by robinessex on Tuesday 16th December 09:57
Bill said:
PRTVR said:
It was your post I disagreed with, that's why I quoted it.
Do you disagree with my post?
Yes. He was a Muslim version of Raoul Moat, IS would love you to see this as a terror plot but he basically just a criminal scumbag looking for a big out.Do you disagree with my post?
Raoul Moat was not part of a bigger problem, how many lone wolves would have to carry out a similar attack before you would admit to a link?
creampuff said:
simo1863 said:
But you'd kill anyone in front, behind and probably immediately to the sides of the gunman. You don't want to be putting a large calibre round like that into a small space full of people.
Even if you don't get hit by the round or it's shockwave it's going to be throwing all kinds of fragments and debris around.
It is a big bullet, it isn't a magic bullet. It can't magically kill everyone in the room or even the people next to the target, although they probably would end up a bit messy. Even if you don't get hit by the round or it's shockwave it's going to be throwing all kinds of fragments and debris around.
However I doubt that the NSW police have such a weapon. They would have assault rifles which are perhaps not accurate enough and too small a calibre to penetrate glass and then go on to be effective and they would perhaps have some 7.62mm sniper rifle.
The Australian army has the
AMR 50 Cal
Edited by robinessex on Tuesday 16th December 13:14
robinessex said:
A hit from a 0.5 Barrett sniper rifle from 50mtrs wouldn't leave anyone in a fit state to do anything, glass window in the way or not. British snipers in Afghanistan were taking out the Taliban at 1.5 MILES distance.
The rifle
The bullet
I think you mean Accuracy International AWM/L115A3 (Artic Warfare Magnum), which is what the Army/Marines use. that uses a .338 Lapua Magnum. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_Internationa...The rifle
The bullet
Edited by robinessex on Tuesday 16th December 09:57
smaller round so less theoretical range but far more accurate compared to the .50BMG which is a heavy machine gun round not a rifle round. it is capable of holding ~0.25 minutes at 5 shots vs ~2 for the .50BMG
Either way, even with hollow points they are not suitable for use around hostages due to over penetration.
Kind of baffling reading the descriptions of what went down. One fruticake with that many people in the cafe - keeping them all at bay with a crappy little shotgun. Post the 9/11 "let's roll" thing you might have thought some of the men would have just rushed him. And surely once the first hostages were out and had told law enforcement it was one islamic nut with a shotgun then a headshot from a sniper could have ended this. Very odd.
krunchkin said:
Kind of baffling reading the descriptions of what went down. One fruticake with that many people in the cafe - keeping them all at bay with a crappy little shotgun. Post the 9/11 "let's roll" thing you might have thought some of the men would have just rushed him. And surely once the first hostages were out and had told law enforcement it was one islamic nut with a shotgun then a headshot from a sniper could have ended this. Very odd.
Shotgun will do massive damage at close range. krunchkin said:
Kind of baffling reading the descriptions of what went down. One fruticake with that many people in the cafe - keeping them all at bay with a crappy little shotgun. Post the 9/11 "let's roll" thing you might have thought some of the men would have just rushed him. And surely once the first hostages were out and had told law enforcement it was one islamic nut with a shotgun then a headshot from a sniper could have ended this. Very odd.
Very odd indeed. Almost as if the decisions made were taken by those involved and present, without the insight of those catching bits of it on the web.
KemP said:
krunchkin said:
Kind of baffling reading the descriptions of what went down. One fruticake with that many people in the cafe - keeping them all at bay with a crappy little shotgun. Post the 9/11 "let's roll" thing you might have thought some of the men would have just rushed him. And surely once the first hostages were out and had told law enforcement it was one islamic nut with a shotgun then a headshot from a sniper could have ended this. Very odd.
Shotgun will do massive damage at close range. Justayellowbadge said:
krunchkin said:
Kind of baffling reading the descriptions of what went down. One fruticake with that many people in the cafe - keeping them all at bay with a crappy little shotgun. Post the 9/11 "let's roll" thing you might have thought some of the men would have just rushed him. And surely once the first hostages were out and had told law enforcement it was one islamic nut with a shotgun then a headshot from a sniper could have ended this. Very odd.
Very odd indeed. Almost as if the decisions made were taken by those involved and present, without the insight of those catching bits of it on the web.
Tonker's post clearly went right over their heads.
creampuff said:
It is a big bullet, it isn't a magic bullet. It can't magically kill everyone in the room or even the people next to the target, although they probably would end up a bit messy.
However I doubt that the NSW police have such a weapon. They would have assault rifles which are perhaps not accurate enough and too small a calibre to penetrate glass and then go on to be effective and they would perhaps have some 7.62mm sniper rifle.
I mean it could have kicked up all sorts of debris from the time it hits the glass to anything it hits before it comes to a stop.However I doubt that the NSW police have such a weapon. They would have assault rifles which are perhaps not accurate enough and too small a calibre to penetrate glass and then go on to be effective and they would perhaps have some 7.62mm sniper rifle.
I know there are a lot of urban myths about big calibre shockwaves and you could stand next to something hit by a kinetic tank round and not be hurt, I still don't think it's a good call to start chucking big calibre shots through a coffee shop.
As others have pointed out too; a shotgun can do a lot of damage and we don't know what sort of shotgun it was. Granted it's something he's managed to get access to and has managed to conceal until he's got to the coffee shop so it's not going to be military grade but he's still managed to kill two people.
I sounds like someone made a grab for it and he's shot them, prompting the armed forces to go in. Maybe they were optimistic of him giving himself up before then.
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