UK General Election 2015
Discussion
Guam said:
rover 623gsi said:
problem with that idea (another election) is that may well produce the same result
Perhaps but it would likely make people realise that the nation is paralysed and force them to make some difficult choices for a clear term for either party.Zod said:
Slight problem with that: he needs Parliament to vote for a dissolution, because of the ridiculous Fixed Term Parliaments Act that he and Clegg hastily and foolishly agreed upon in 2010. The wreckers can just vote against.
Not quite, a no-confidence vote can still trigger an early election, if it is not reversed within 14 days.Guam said:
Zod said:
Slight problem with that: he needs Parliament to vote for a dissolution, because of the ridiculous Fixed Term Parliaments Act that he and Clegg hastily and foolishly agreed upon in 2010. The wreckers can just vote against.
Well that just shows how much of an Idiot he is then doesn't it!Five years of paralysis because of an elitist ideal by the Boys and girls in the bubble
Wonderful!
And yet you still defend them!
As a country, we are just not that good at coalitions yet, there still quite new to us.
In an ideal world, I would like no party politics, with mps working together on doing the right thing, rather than being whipped to doing the party thing.
Yes, this will not happen ant time soon....
In an ideal world, I would like no party politics, with mps working together on doing the right thing, rather than being whipped to doing the party thing.
Yes, this will not happen ant time soon....
Or hold out in a minority government as long as possible. The wreckers would be shown up for what they are. The business of government would carry on carrying on. The business of politics might be paralysed. So what? Might slow the useless pobs from interfering with all sorts of stuff just because it's whatever the other lot did.
I agree with Guam that the attitudes and shrill outpourings from the three main parties and their tribalistic supporters seen here and elsewhere has had the effect of marginalising the minor parties, which frankly is a shame.
The country has in this and the next election what together amounts to a once in a lifetime opportunity to show these failures that they are just that, unacceptable failures. Yes before anyone picks me up on it, fully aware of the dissonance in referencing a once in a lifetime opportunity as over the course of two elections, but this is simply a reflection of the failings in the fptp system and the behaviour of the tribes.
I agree with Guam that the attitudes and shrill outpourings from the three main parties and their tribalistic supporters seen here and elsewhere has had the effect of marginalising the minor parties, which frankly is a shame.
The country has in this and the next election what together amounts to a once in a lifetime opportunity to show these failures that they are just that, unacceptable failures. Yes before anyone picks me up on it, fully aware of the dissonance in referencing a once in a lifetime opportunity as over the course of two elections, but this is simply a reflection of the failings in the fptp system and the behaviour of the tribes.
TEKNOPUG said:
The answer is to re-address that constituency boundaries - something that the Tories wanted to do but strangely, the LibDems opposed.....anyone would think that they want a hung parliament every election....
That was tit-for-tat because the Tories wouldn't agree to Lords reform. Anyone would think they want an unelected, unaccountable Lords with a Tory majority in perpetuity.....Bradgate said:
TEKNOPUG said:
The answer is to re-address that constituency boundaries - something that the Tories wanted to do but strangely, the LibDems opposed.....anyone would think that they want a hung parliament every election....
That was tit-for-tat because the Tories wouldn't agree to Lords reform. Anyone would think they want an unelected, unaccountable Lords with a Tory majority in perpetuity.....Zod said:
rover 623gsi said:
Neither the Tories nor Labour are likely to win enough seats to form a majority government. Therefore, the question is "what coalition do you want?"
Personally, I think UKIP will win very few seats so the only for the Tories will be another term with the Lib Dems.
Labour could possibly form a govt with SNP - but even as a bit of a leftie I don't like the thought of that and I also think that lots of Labour supporters wouldn't really want that either. They would rather go into govt with the Lib Dems.
So, my view is that even though they will lose seats, the Lib Dems will still have a major part to play.
On the figures in today's FT prediction, the Conservatives would have the most seats (just), but would have fewer seats combined with the LibDems than Labour combined with the SNP. A formal coalition would trump an informal agreement between Labour and the SNP, but the unholy alliance would no doubt act as wreckers for five years, making it impossible for the coalition to govern.Personally, I think UKIP will win very few seats so the only for the Tories will be another term with the Lib Dems.
Labour could possibly form a govt with SNP - but even as a bit of a leftie I don't like the thought of that and I also think that lots of Labour supporters wouldn't really want that either. They would rather go into govt with the Lib Dems.
So, my view is that even though they will lose seats, the Lib Dems will still have a major part to play.
What a mess!
However with 5 weeks to go the Tories will be hoping for those numbers to change.
Scuffers said:
As a country, we are just not that good at coalitions yet, there still quite new to us.
In an ideal world, I would like no party politics, with mps working together on doing the right thing, rather than being whipped to doing the party thing.
Yes, this will not happen ant time soon....
Or ever probably. In an ideal world, I would like no party politics, with mps working together on doing the right thing, rather than being whipped to doing the party thing.
Yes, this will not happen ant time soon....
One small thing I would wish to add to your wishes, even if it's a rather abstract notion. MPs have the right to the Right Honourable title, I would like to see ethics and behaviour which justifies that.
handpaper said:
Zod said:
Slight problem with that: he needs Parliament to vote for a dissolution, because of the ridiculous Fixed Term Parliaments Act that he and Clegg hastily and foolishly agreed upon in 2010. The wreckers can just vote against.
Not quite, a no-confidence vote can still trigger an early election, if it is not reversed within 14 days.FiF said:
Or hold out in a minority government as long as possible. The wreckers would be shown up for what they are. The business of government would carry on carrying on. The business of politics might be paralysed. So what? Might slow the useless pobs from interfering with all sorts of stuff just because it's whatever the other lot did.
Either as long as possible, or as long as they have to. It's a dangerous game for the wreckers to play, no doubt, as they have to balance the damage done to a minority Tory Govt limping on vs the damage to them in not voting the the Tories down. The only good thing I can see that might come of it is low levels of spending. IIRC in the final Clinton term US Gov spending plummeted because Congress and the Senate were deadlocked, and so nothing got voted through, meaning nothing that involved spending money saw the light of day.
Guam said:
rover 623gsi said:
you want one party to have an overall majority
Where did I say that's what I want?Come on lets play this nonsense out
Look up the word "pragmatist" (hint)
To me that implies that what you want is for one of the Tories or Labour to have a majority
Greg66 said:
handpaper said:
Zod said:
Slight problem with that: he needs Parliament to vote for a dissolution, because of the ridiculous Fixed Term Parliaments Act that he and Clegg hastily and foolishly agreed upon in 2010. The wreckers can just vote against.
Not quite, a no-confidence vote can still trigger an early election, if it is not reversed within 14 days.FiF said:
Or hold out in a minority government as long as possible. The wreckers would be shown up for what they are. The business of government would carry on carrying on. The business of politics might be paralysed. So what? Might slow the useless pobs from interfering with all sorts of stuff just because it's whatever the other lot did.
Either as long as possible, or as long as they have to. It's a dangerous game for the wreckers to play, no doubt, as they have to balance the damage done to a minority Tory Govt limping on vs the damage to them in not voting the the Tories down. The only good thing I can see that might come of it is low levels of spending. IIRC in the final Clinton term US Gov spending plummeted because Congress and the Senate were deadlocked, and so nothing got voted through, meaning nothing that involved spending money saw the light of day.
Guam said:
>>much snipped <<
Unless Farage can reach the massive numbers of do not usually vote, electorate out there nothing is going to really change.
... and that nothing will really change come May 7th gives us all a warm glow inside.Unless Farage can reach the massive numbers of do not usually vote, electorate out there nothing is going to really change.
Roll on ....
Currently watching BBC2's Daily Politics show. "ACE" media luvvies Jo Coburn and Andrew Neil in full BBC pc-riddled swing.
Stroll on .....
rover 623gsi said:
Neither the Tories nor Labour are likely to win enough seats to form a majority government. Therefore, the question is "what coalition do you want?"
Personally, I think UKIP will win very few seats so the only for the Tories will be another term with the Lib Dems.
Labour could possibly form a govt with SNP - but even as a bit of a leftie I don't like the thought of that and I also think that lots of Labour supporters wouldn't really want that either. They would rather go into govt with the Lib Dems.
So, my view is that even though they will lose seats, the Lib Dems will still have a major part to play.
I could see a Lab / Lib coalition but don't think that their combined number seats will give a majority. Same with Con / Lib coalition.Personally, I think UKIP will win very few seats so the only for the Tories will be another term with the Lib Dems.
Labour could possibly form a govt with SNP - but even as a bit of a leftie I don't like the thought of that and I also think that lots of Labour supporters wouldn't really want that either. They would rather go into govt with the Lib Dems.
So, my view is that even though they will lose seats, the Lib Dems will still have a major part to play.
It looks like the SNP will be the third biggest party in terms of number seats but Labour has already ruled out a formal coalition with the SNP.
BlackLabel said:
Most of the predictions as things stand are that Con+Lib won't reach the 326 needed whereas Lab+SNP will. So we'll have a situation where party number 2 is in government propped up by party number 5 (in terms of the national vote). A real mess indeed.
Indeed it is.Thing is, the UK is a genetically capitalist society but we're also a compassionate bunch which is why we have two parties representing both sides so close to the centre line. Truth is, whether Labour or Conservatives are in power, when all is said and done, really makes little difference to our day to day lives.
The world see the UK as a safe pair of hands. We don't do multi-party coalitions that take months or even years to form. We do simple politics and historically give our leaders a mandate to govern for at least 4 years. One can argue all day about Thatcher but what cannot be argued is that the public gave her the mandate to govern. That provides the confidence of overseas institutions and companies to invest in the UK and it's this that drives up the economy - nothing else, and it's the economy that drives everything else from there on.
We're in this totally daft scenario where it's likely we'll have a Labour led government that less than a third of the public want sharing power with a party who's sole interest is focused on one part of the country at the expense of the others, whilst kicking out the lot that are seemingly doing a pretty good of sorting out an almighty mess inherited from the last government.
The world is looking at this and thinking "WTF?"
I really cannot understand how or why we have arrived at this position other than we have somehow grown a population of the terminally thick.
For the UK to maintain and strengthen its position and well being, we need a majority, single party government with a strong opposition. Labour or Conservative or Conservative or Labour - which way round is less important.
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