UK General Election 2015

[Stuart70]

Tory vote split by ukip.

Question of alliance between:
Tory/ukip and out of Europe, or
Labour/snp and out of work.

Other outcomes would be preferable in my opinion.

[McWigglebum4th]

The best possible result would be a hugely shakey coalition between many parties who cannot agree on anything and for 5 years not one single piece of legislation can be passed by any of them.

Or in other terms

5 years without the government screwing anything up

[rovermorris999]

JustAnotherLogin said:

Even if you were right, I can't see the greens agreeing to it

Economic policy might be a bit of a hot topic for one thing:
http://greenparty.org.uk/values/fair-society.html

That's hilarious or it would be if so many didn't believe it.

[BlackLabel]

rovermorris999 said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

Even if you were right, I can't see the greens agreeing to it

Economic policy might be a bit of a hot topic for one thing:
http://greenparty.org.uk/values/fair-society.html

That's hilarious or it would be if so many didn't believe it.

They've been getting a lot of media coverage lately, their leader (the lady with the Aussie accent is always on the radio) claims that their economic policies are all 'costed'. I wonder who by - perhaps they've got Tesco's accountants on board.

Edited by BlackLabel on Friday 19th December 19:08

[Scuffers]

Their energy policy is even more looney, basically, it involves a return to the middle ages.

[McWigglebum4th]

Scuffers said:

Their energy policy is even more looney, basically, it involves a return to the middle ages.

Any chance of narrowing it down what party you are talking about

[JustAnotherLogin]

Can we try and drop the pejorative terms on this thread please. If you want to criticise a party you like then use facts and analysis, not just blanket insults

[hairyben]

JustAnotherLogin said:

McWigglebum4th said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

so, my view

Tories:
UKIP- possible in return for referendum (which is Tory policy anyway)
Lib Dems- possible if Tories are close to mark, but would split what is left of tne
SNP- can't see it
Irish parties: not as coalition, but support possible
Greens- unlikely

I would say the tory party would love to take the greens onboard if they could

Even if you were right, I can't see the greens agreeing to it

Economic policy might be a bit of a hot topic for one thing:
http://greenparty.org.uk/values/fair-society.html

I wouldn't be surprised to see overall vote share for the greens increase as they'd be the obvious choice for many left-leaning previous lib-dem protest voters, but whether that'll translate into seats I don't know.

As for hooking up with the tories that's pretty unlikely, greenies are just a bit too faeries and unicorns about important stuff aren't they?

[Mr_B]

The interesting bit is both Labour and Tory have an equal chance at the mo, so another type of coalition is almost certain. Problem is, no one wants to replace the LibDems/Clegg and be seen as the whipping boy for either. The price of loaning support/votes is going to be interesting too.

[anonymous-user]

hairyben said:

I wouldn't be surprised to see overall vote share for the greens increase as they'd be the obvious choice for many left-leaning previous lib-dem protest voters, but whether that'll translate into seats I don't know.

As for hooking up with the tories that's pretty unlikely, greenies are just a bit too faeries and unicorns about important stuff aren't they?

I think the greens are experiencing a rise with support from young people going towards them from labour. Perhaps the reverse of older voters going with UKIP?

I think the lib dems could end up being the deciding factor again with a labour/green and cons/ukip about equal. Then there are the SNP (with labour??) who could possibly also swing it.

The one thing I think that perhaps stands UKIP in bad stead is that the party generally doesn't give off a good impression of it's policies towards women, which might cost it at the election. I can't imagine many (especially young) women voting for a party that wants to scrap paid maternity leave?

Anyway-I've got to decide which way to vote still! I really don't know-I'll probably go with the person best for my constituency.

[rs1952]

tangerine_sedge said:

My personal view is that it's far too early to start working out winners and losers and coalition partners. I think these will only actually coalesce once the results start coming in.

It's easy for parties to take a moral/political stance on forming/not forming coalitions 5 months away, but politicians will throw all of that away for the slightest sniff of power!

This. The matter of who forms a coalition with who will have more to do with the electoral arithmetic after the election than drawing phoney red lines/posturing five months before the kick-off..

[Scuffers]

McWigglebum4th said:

Scuffers said:

Their energy policy is even more looney, basically, it involves a return to the middle ages.

Any chance of narrowing it down what party you are talking about

Sorry, the greens..

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/how-the-gree...

[hairyben]

Scuffers said:

McWigglebum4th said:

Scuffers said:

Their energy policy is even more looney, basically, it involves a return to the middle ages.

Any chance of narrowing it down what party you are talking about

Sorry, the greens..

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/how-the-gree...

I remember years ago nailing one of their followers to the floor, metaphorically speaking, and demanding he explain to me how his claims the UK "subsidises" motorists work, when from figures I can see they collect something like 5x in tax/vat/rfl/duty/fines/whatever/etc than what they spend... he actually had the humility to be embarrassed as he sheepishly explained the concept of the "asset value" of the UK's road network to me. The idea that people vote for this party with no obvious working concept of the chilling ramifications of this mindset.. often while triumphantly referring to the likes of UKIP as the "nazis"... is worrying. but, but polar bears right? polar bears anyone?

[Scuffers]

The terrifying bit about this is just how many people are gullible enough to believe this crap.

It really is a religion.

[rovermorris999]

McWigglebum4th said:

Any chance of narrowing it down what party you are talking about

Green, err..... Tory, errr Labour ummm Libdem. Hmmm, you have a point.

[Ecosseven]

If the SNP gain a few seats in Scotland and greens manage another MP or two I could see an informal Labour / SNP / Green alliance. God help us.........

[anonymous-user]

McWigglebum4th said:

The best possible result would be a hugely shakey coalition between many parties who cannot agree on anything and for 5 years not one single piece of legislation can be passed by any of them.

Or in other terms

5 years without the government screwing anything up

Spot on. That's more or less the situation you're in now. The coalition has done nothing, absolutely nothing of any substance and the country has just got on with it. Not fvcking things up is about the best you can hope for from the political pygmies Miliband, Cameron, Farage and whoever runs the LibDems.

[flyingvisit]

JustAnotherLogin said:

...
No throwing insults at other PHers
No insulting politicians you don't like
...
some Kippers jumping up and down that they were right all along
...

Nice start.

[JustAnotherLogin]

flyingvisit said:

JustAnotherLogin said:

...
No throwing insults at other PHers
No insulting politicians you don't like
...
some Kippers jumping up and down that they were right all along
...

Nice start.

You think that is an insult? Doesn't seem it to me, and wasn't intended that way. If you have taken offence from that then I apologise

[FiF]

JustAnotherLogin said:

If Cameron gives people a vote on leaving EU, no matter what reforms heö has achieved (if any) and no matter what recommendation he gives, then it is meaningful. Even if the vote goes against you.

And in fact, without renegotiation, more people would vote to stay in than leave on the last 2 polls
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_referendum_o...

Though given the number of unsures, margin and past history, I think we can agree that it is too close to call


Anyway. Back to the subject if we may

We are going to have to agree to disagree.

You asked what I thought they would do to make any referendum not meaningful.

I answered that question.

You clearly do not agree, appearing to hang your hat on a peg that a very complicated situation, with significant unknowns on both sides, would ultimately result in a very binary question and result.

I think the polling results to which you linked proved my point. The results are overwhelmingly in favour of in when the question posed was "if the government had recommended a stay in vote after a renegotiation". Even though there was no indication in the question of what reforms, if any, had been obtained.

Therefore I am standing by my point that after a negotiation which resulted in relatively minor reforms resulted in a govt recommendation for staying in this would lead to a referendum which, while binary in its result with all the ensuing consequences, would not resolve in any meaningful way the issues at stake. In that event the rumblings and divisions would continue, one suspects.

Yet, as indicated on the UKIP thread, in the case of any result going against my voting direction, whichever that way that turns out to be, would be to accept the democratic decision, pick up, move on.

Suppose it depends on what one considers are the purposes and aims of holding the referendum. That will differ from person to person.

Edited by FiF on Saturday 20th December 10:51