UK General Election 2015

[jonby]

Scuffers said:

One assumes they will use the same data used for council tax calculations, with suitable uplift to get to today's values?

Can see this being fraught with issues, arguments over valuations, etc.etc.etc.

Really can't see it making anything like £1.2bn pa.

upper limit on council tax valuations is only £320k IIRC

needs looking at from scratch, will cost a fortune, be subject to constant arguments and never raise net profit

it's gesture politics, plain & simple

[Scuffers]

jonby said:

upper limit on council tax valuations is only £320k IIRC

needs looking at from scratch, will cost a fortune, be subject to constant arguments and never raise net profit

it's gesture politics, plain & simple

Valuations as of 1 April 1991

[anonymous-user]

jonby said:

Scuffers said:

One assumes they will use the same data used for council tax calculations, with suitable uplift to get to today's values?

Can see this being fraught with issues, arguments over valuations, etc.etc.etc.

Really can't see it making anything like £1.2bn pa.

upper limit on council tax valuations is only £320k IIRC

needs looking at from scratch, will cost a fortune, be subject to constant arguments and never raise net profit

it's gesture politics, plain & simple

Plus you get the issue of people living in modest houses that have greatly appreciated in value, without a corresponding increases in their incomes who may be unable to pay this levy - such as pensioners. You can see the "Labour forced this sweet old dear to sell her house and move out of London" headlines coming a mile off.

[Welshbeef]

jonby said:

those are exactly the problems with both council tax and a mansion tax. In the instance of mansion tax, because it's not a marginal tax, the problems of houses hovering in value on the limit are immense. At least with council tax, is simply an extension the current system (which needs a house revaluation across the board badly now anyway) and it doesn't have that ridiculous marginal aspect

They did the revaluation in Wales - end result everyone paid more plus the cost of the valuations.

[Scuffers]

Using online valuation uplift calculators, £320k in 1991 is now just over £1m now.

Wonder what liebour are basing their shambles on?

[edh]

Symbolica said:

jonby said:

Scuffers said:

One assumes they will use the same data used for council tax calculations, with suitable uplift to get to today's values?

Can see this being fraught with issues, arguments over valuations, etc.etc.etc.

Really can't see it making anything like £1.2bn pa.

upper limit on council tax valuations is only £320k IIRC

needs looking at from scratch, will cost a fortune, be subject to constant arguments and never raise net profit

it's gesture politics, plain & simple

Plus you get the issue of people living in modest houses that have greatly appreciated in value, without a corresponding increases in their incomes who may be unable to pay this levy - such as pensioners. You can see the "Labour forced this sweet old dear to sell her house and move out of London" headlines coming a mile off.

Only they will be able to roll up their charges to be paid on the sale of the house, so no "poor widow in a mansion" issues. Mind you it must be such a downer to own a house that has "greatly appreciated in value"..

Mansion tax is a crude instrument, an extension of council tax bands would be better, Land Value Tax even better..

I don't believe valuations is major issue, after all we have a whole profession whose job is to value property.. And a massive database of sale prices.

[Welshbeef]

edh said:

Only they will be able to roll up their charges to be paid on the sale of the house, so no "poor widow in a mansion" issues. Mind you it must be such a downer to own a house that has "greatly appreciated in value"..

Mansion tax is a crude instrument, an extension of council tax bands would be better, Land Value Tax even better..

I don't believe valuations is major issue, after all we have a whole profession whose job is to value property.. And a massive database of sale prices.

True but to revalue 27,000,000 houses all at the same time and then annually those in the "in or out" zone would cost a fortune and take decades to achieve.

What about all the legal challenges to dispute the values? I'm fairly confident that those who own houses of such values will do plenty to prove its value is actually less than what the govt valuation says it is. What then let's say you have hundreds of thousands all disputing at the same time how can the courts deal with it?


Is the mansion tax just as bad as the poll tax and could kill labour support in certain areas for good plus lead to civil disturbances and protests.

[FiF]

Always thought that the mansion tax is the thin end of a wedge to get a % valuation tax on all property. Initially one could interpret the word property to involve buildings eg houses etc, later on then land, then anything that the spendthrift politicians wish to grab a piece of.

[anonymous-user]

edh said:

Only they will be able to roll up their charges to be paid on the sale of the house, so no "poor widow in a mansion" issues. Mind you it must be such a downer to own a house that has "greatly appreciated in value"..

Mansion tax is a crude instrument, an extension of council tax bands would be better, Land Value Tax even better..

I don't believe valuations is major issue, after all we have a whole profession whose job is to value property.. And a massive database of sale prices.

In which case they have another variable to account for, they won't get anything out of those people unless they move or die. Kind of makes the claim that they'll definitely get £1.2 billion out of all this sound pretty stupid.

[Scuffers]

Easy to sound stupid when you are...

[Bill]

On a lighter note we have this loon: http://movementforactivedemocracy.org.uk

[Welshbeef]

Symbolica said:

edh said:

Only they will be able to roll up their charges to be paid on the sale of the house, so no "poor widow in a mansion" issues. Mind you it must be such a downer to own a house that has "greatly appreciated in value"..

Mansion tax is a crude instrument, an extension of council tax bands would be better, Land Value Tax even better..

I don't believe valuations is major issue, after all we have a whole profession whose job is to value property.. And a massive database of sale prices.

In which case they have another variable to account for, they won't get anything out of those people unless they move or die. Kind of makes the claim that they'll definitely get £1.2 billion out of all this sound pretty stupid.

Serious question what if the owners simply cannot afford to pay the tax ever?

From recent memory Balls said it will not harm those who have lived there for a long time and seen asset values grow but have little cash. What is the time frame exclusion does it apply to properties inherited is family home passing down which would change the ownership date on the deeds and potentially they simply have no money to pay the tax.

Talk about forcing people to move & what would happen if those individuals attempted to move but found the actual market value for their house was sub £2m they clearly could then stay ? No?



Evil tax this one makes the spare room subsidy removal seem a stroll in the park.

[Vaud]

wc98 said:

in complete contrast to the one i received from broon today,promising to cure all with a mansion tax ,stealing more money from the tobacco companies and cracking down on tax avoidance,which i thought was legal .
written by morons to appeal to morons by the look of it.

Well I know a number of well regarded companies have offered to recover known unpaid overseas student loans and unpaid taxes for a fixed % of the recovery.

But that needs a more aggressive policy than the one in place, but the treasury could recover a lot of money with no incremental resources and at low risk to the tax payer, at least for the first few hundred M or BN. The really bad debtors are easy. The rest, less so.

[Scuffers]

Its the politics of envy for simpletons

[Challo]

S

Greg66 said:

Scuffers said:

Symbolica said:

https://twitter.com/daily_politics/status/59048376...

If anybody missed this Mansion Tax interview on today's Daily Politics then I highly recommend taking 8 mins to listen to it

What a complete c0ckknob!

I never used to be a fan of Andrew Neill, but he does those interviews very very well.

Alarming that that muppet didn't know what part of the house value would be taxed, nor the rate, but was adamant about how much the mansion tax would raise. Alas a point that Labour voters just won't care about...

Jesus wept. A fundermental policy to raise money, and the guy can't even say how it is calculated. And people want to vote for this party. I'm generally worried if these guys win.

[pingu393]

Axionknight said:

It might be the truth, but when they stand there and say livng standards have risen during the coalitions tenure and the figure is around the 1% mark, don't be surprised if the average joe doesn't feel any better off than he/she did five years ago.

Earn twenty thousand pounds after tax per annum sir? Because we have GOOD NEWS, you are 54p a day better off than you were under that Labour lot.

Edited by Axionknight on Tuesday 21st April 12:49

If you break into the cockpit of a plane that some wazzock has nose-dived from 30,000ft to 15,000ft after turning off three of the four engines, you've got to expect it to drop some more (and hear some noise) before you can fire them back up and return to cruising altitude. And you'd think "ungrateful bds" when they complain to you about the plane being late.

[Vaud]

pingu393 said:

Axionknight said:

It might be the truth, but when they stand there and say livng standards have risen during the coalitions tenure and the figure is around the 1% mark, don't be surprised if the average joe doesn't feel any better off than he/she did five years ago.

Earn twenty thousand pounds after tax per annum sir? Because we have GOOD NEWS, you are 54p a day better off than you were under that Labour lot.

Edited by Axionknight on Tuesday 21st April 12:49

If you break into the cockpit of a plane that some wazzock has nose-dived from 30,000ft to 15,000ft after turning off three of the four engines, you've got to expect it to drop some more (and hear some noise) before you can fire them back up and return to cruising altitude. And you'd think "ungrateful bds" when they complain to you about the plane being late.

Quite. Put simply, magic money fairies don't exist.

Or we have put your house fire out, but I'm sorry the tea towels are a write-off.

[anonymous-user]

When will it be over, just going on too long I am starting to suffer PTED, help. Hopefully watching the snooker on the red button will help.

Post Traumatic Election Disorder.

[funkyrobot]

I've pretty much finished taking any note of the current election bks. However, I have noticed that the NHS is being used as a bh to try and swing voters. My brother is a mental health nurse and because Labour have said they will recruit more nurses if they win, they've got his vote.

There is a lot of stuff about the NHS springing up everywhere and it's really sad to see that rather than it being made more efficient and better, it's just being used as a tool to gain seats.

[Welshbeef]

gottans said:

When will it be over, just going on too long I am starting to suffer PTED, help. Hopefully watching the snooker on the red button will help.

Post Traumatic Election Disorder.

Have you attended any town hall local discussions - a really good chance to challenge and debate.
We want people engaged with politics lets properly discuss all the points even with strangers while in shops or stop them in the street for a full on one on one.