UK General Election 2015

[anonymous-user]

I am engaged and interested in politics but none of the parties are really saying anything of value, they are saying things that they hope will appeal because there is so little they can actually do. Each party might have 1 or 2 decent ideas that should be implemented that would actually benefit the country but most of what they say/do is a waste of effort and our money.

We need to get back to living within our means which we don't, this means trimming our spending and expectations. We are promised more money for the NHS, what the fk happened to getting value for money, just throwing money at something only guarantees the bill next year will be even bigger for less out.

All that is being offered is re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic but we as a country are still sinking, I am all for helping people but they have also got to put a bit of effort in themselves not just put their hand out and expect.

So yes I am pissed of with it all and would rather watch the snooker because they are all st but some are more st than others.

[anonymous-user]

FiF said:

Always thought that the mansion tax is the thin end of a wedge to get a % valuation tax on all property. Initially one could interpret the word property to involve buildings eg houses etc, later on then land, then anything that the spendthrift politicians wish to grab a piece of.

Damn right it is. And you know what? That is the only silver lining to this hare-brained scheme.

When all the loafers and envious types who happily vote Labour this time around end up getting reamed by this tax once it is applied to all property, including their houses, their cars, their iphones and their 50" plasma TVs, how I shall laugh. I shall be laughing through tears of my own pain, but nevertheless, I shall laugh. Long and hard at the short-sighted greed, shortsightedness and general fecklessness of these voters. Ha!

[BGARK]

gottans said:

I am engaged and interested in politics but none of the parties are really saying anything of value, they are saying things that they hope will appeal because there is so little they can actually do. Each party might have 1 or 2 decent ideas that should be implemented that would actually benefit the country but most of what they say/do is a waste of effort and our money.

We need to get back to living within our means which we don't, this means trimming our spending and expectations. We are promised more money for the NHS, what the fk happened to getting value for money, just throwing money at something only guarantees the bill next year will be even bigger for less out.

All that is being offered is re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic but we as a country are still sinking, I am all for helping people but they have also got to put a bit of effort in themselves not just put their hand out and expect.

So yes I am pissed of with it all and would rather watch the snooker because they are all st but some are more st than others.

I agree with you completely, and after reading the UKIP's manifesto that has secured the deal for me.

Being fluffy and nice goes so far but tough and fair decisions sometimes need to be made for the greater good.

[jonby]

Welshbeef said:

funkyrobot said:

I've pretty much finished taking any note of the current election bks. However, I have noticed that the NHS is being used as a bh to try and swing voters. My brother is a mental health nurse and because Labour have said they will recruit more nurses if they win, they've got his vote.

There is a lot of stuff about the NHS springing up everywhere and it's really sad to see that rather than it being made more efficient and better, it's just being used as a tool to gain seats.

So the direction of the political landscape driving defence education NHS economic delivery and more or less progressive tax systems.

Kind of important - ditch the playing with balls and get real

I agree with both points. In relation to the first, I don't like the rhetoric that tries to make voters take sides - either that public sector is full of parasites and private sector pays for it all, or on the other hand that public sector is full of saints who do the important stuff and private sector are vultures. There is a symbiotic relationship between the two. But I do feel that the money could be so much better spent and in particular, on front line services rather than execs, management and quangos. The services could be so much better if the money was spent more wisely

In relation to the second point though, there is no question that regardless of how efficiently the money is spent, we need to decide how to pay for it which depends on how much we are prepared to be taxed and we what we all consider a fair tax basis - without a budget, everything else goes to pot

[jonby]

Greg66 said:

FiF said:

Always thought that the mansion tax is the thin end of a wedge to get a % valuation tax on all property. Initially one could interpret the word property to involve buildings eg houses etc, later on then land, then anything that the spendthrift politicians wish to grab a piece of.

Damn right it is. And you know what? That is the only silver lining to this hare-brained scheme.

When all the loafers and envious types who happily vote Labour this time around end up getting reamed by this tax once it is applied to all property, including their houses, their cars, their iphones and their 50" plasma TVs, how I shall laugh. I shall be laughing through tears of my own pain, but nevertheless, I shall laugh. Long and hard at the short-sighted greed, shortsightedness and general fecklessness of these voters. Ha!

100% correct. Anyone that thinks such a system once (if) in place won't filter down the chain to lower value houses is delusional

It's a bit like cars- we are taxed annually based on engine size, but the more expensive the annual tax, the more we pay in fuel tax too as it means you are in a less efficient car and of course the more miles you drive, the more that's amplified. Yet they want to bring in a third (4th if you include company car tax) road tax on miles, by way of a pay as you go

Likewise with property, we have council tax, we have stamp duty and we may soon have mansion tax. It's all different ways of taxing the same thing. Better to have fewer systems, concentrating on the fairest and raise more money from same. Council tax without upper bands and a disproportionately larger amount on higher value homes is the obvious solution

[pingu393]

Governments should decide what they consider good for us and what they consider bad and tax accordingly.

To my way of thinking, the proposed mansion tax means one of two things. Either they don't want any property in the UK to be valued at more than £2M, or they don't want people to aspire to owning £2M+ properties.

If they succeed with the former, the property market will crash. If they succeed with the latter, entrepreneurs will just leave these shores - who will pay 25% of the income tax then, Mr. Milliband?

[HoHoHo]

The average mansion tax bill will be £24,000 per annum (based on 1% of value) and that's a tax to be paid year after year after year and if you can't afford to pay they back date payments the day to die and take it from your estate.

So if you retire in your nice house you'll need a pension income of around £35- £40k per annum (?) just to tread water with that bill alone More likely you'll need a massive pension because you'll need to be a 40% tax payer to afford to pay this and general livings costs.

I can picture Millipede and his crowd rubbing their grubby, envious and greedy little left wings hands together think "that'll teach them for working hard during their life"

fking unbelievable, simply fking unbelievable.

[Welshbeef]

HoHoHo said:

The average mansion tax bill will be £24,000 per annum (based on 1% of value) and that's a tax to be paid year after year after year and if you can't afford to pay they back date payments the day to die and take it from your estate.

So if you retire in your nice house you'll need a pension income of around £35- £40k per annum (?) just to tread water with that bill alone More likely you'll need a massive pension because you'll need to be a 40% tax payer to afford to pay this and general livings costs.

I can picture Millipede and his crowd rubbing their grubby, envious and greedy little left wings hands together think "that'll teach them for working hard during their life"

fking unbelievable, simply fking unbelievable.

Crude maths would show that the Labour Govt assumed there are 100,000 houses in the UK which are valued at more than &2m.

Are there really that many?

[HoHoHo]

Welshbeef said:

HoHoHo said:

The average mansion tax bill will be £24,000 per annum (based on 1% of value) and that's a tax to be paid year after year after year and if you can't afford to pay they back date payments the day to die and take it from your estate.

So if you retire in your nice house you'll need a pension income of around £35- £40k per annum (?) just to tread water with that bill alone More likely you'll need a massive pension because you'll need to be a 40% tax payer to afford to pay this and general livings costs.

I can picture Millipede and his crowd rubbing their grubby, envious and greedy little left wings hands together think "that'll teach them for working hard during their life"

fking unbelievable, simply fking unbelievable.

Crude maths would show that the Labour Govt assumed there are 100,000 houses in the UK which are valued at more than &2m.

Are there really that many?

The figure I read was currently 55000 odd in the UK.

If your house is worth £1.2m now in 10 years time and assuming same growth you'll be paying the mansion tax

If your house is worth £550000 now you'll also be paying the mansion tax in 20 years or so.

Clearly house prices can go up down left or right and those figures are based on similar growth but my guess is long before then the council tax system will be either replaced or this way of raising revenue will apply to all houses throughout the UK (aside from those on benefits naturally).

I own several properties currently in joint value are under the £2m threshold but at what point do they start to think about combining value........

[FiF]

HoHoHo said:

but at what point do they start to think about combining value........

As previously said this is a slippery slope to combining all property, houses, land, cars, bank accounts, paintings, even pensions.

For example in one of the periodic bash those boomers the bar stewards stole our future efforts, pensioners being the new Jews you know, the example of the number of millionaire pensioners is often raised. Now to get to their number they included not just the value of any property and savings etc, but the notional capital value attached to any pension in payment assuming whatever financially jiggery pokery mathematics that the unprincipled oiks dreamt up.

Work hard provide for yourself and your own and soon have to wear a star.

[Snozzwangler]

Just wait...

They add aggregate value in to the mix...


Watch private rents rocket...

[Asterix]

Let's assume the Duchess of Cambridge pops soon and there's a wash of feel good factor across the UK - who would benefit the most Party wise?

I guess the Conservatives would - Let's ignore the fact it's a coalition Government with the LibDems. Does anyone in the street actually think they've done anything else but hinder stronger Tory policies (forget that Danny Alexander has been widely praised for his contribution to the Treasury - most won't appreciate that).

[edh]

Snozzwangler said:

Just wait...

They add aggregate value in to the mix...


Watch private rents rocket...

Ricardo's law of rent suggests not....

Are there lots of benevolent private landlords out there who are charging way less than the current market rent at the moment?

Of course there is an argument that any rise in NMW will just get eaten up in higher rent..

Edited by edh on Wednesday 22 April 09:14

[edh]

FiF said:

HoHoHo said:

but at what point do they start to think about combining value........

As previously said this is a slippery slope to combining all property, houses, land, cars, bank accounts, paintings, even pensions.

For example in one of the periodic bash those boomers the bar stewards stole our future efforts, pensioners being the new Jews you know, the example of the number of millionaire pensioners is often raised. Now to get to their number they included not just the value of any property and savings etc, but the notional capital value attached to any pension in payment assuming whatever financially jiggery pokery mathematics that the unprincipled oiks dreamt up.

Work hard provide for yourself and your own and soon have to wear a star.

A bit hyperbolic don't you think?

Shifting taxation from income and transactions onto assets, in particular land, would be hugely beneficial. Don't see it as an extra tax, think of it as "rebalancing"... Wasn't all that long ago we had rates for private property - council tax has vastly reduced the amount payable on high value property.

Who really thinks the property bubble is a good idea?

How many people work hard at the moment, just to survive & pay the bank? Landlords are often just the middle men, collecting rents for the banks.

Proper Land value tax would encourage efficient use of land, and penalise speculation. It would also collect the planning gain that currently accrues to private individuals from taxpayer funded improvements like Crossrail.

Lib Dem policy btw

When we retire, we plan to sell our family house & move somewhere smaller and more manageable - don't see the big deal really. I don' want a big house, big garden to maintain (just a big garage )

[Zod]

HoHoHo said:

The average mansion tax bill will be £24,000 per annum (based on 1% of value) and that's a tax to be paid year after year after year and if you can't afford to pay they back date payments the day to die and take it from your estate.

So if you retire in your nice house you'll need a pension income of around £35- £40k per annum (?) just to tread water with that bill alone More likely you'll need a massive pension because you'll need to be a 40% tax payer to afford to pay this and general livings costs.

I can picture Millipede and his crowd rubbing their grubby, envious and greedy little left wings hands together think "that'll teach them for working hard during their life"

fking unbelievable, simply fking unbelievable.

Despite saving a lot, I worry already about the amount of my pension. To have £30k taken out of it by these utter wkers means it has not been worth saving at all.

[Zod]

edh said:

FiF said:

HoHoHo said:

but at what point do they start to think about combining value........

As previously said this is a slippery slope to combining all property, houses, land, cars, bank accounts, paintings, even pensions.

For example in one of the periodic bash those boomers the bar stewards stole our future efforts, pensioners being the new Jews you know, the example of the number of millionaire pensioners is often raised. Now to get to their number they included not just the value of any property and savings etc, but the notional capital value attached to any pension in payment assuming whatever financially jiggery pokery mathematics that the unprincipled oiks dreamt up.

Work hard provide for yourself and your own and soon have to wear a star.

A bit hyperbolic don't you think?

Shifting taxation from income and transactions onto assets, in particular land, would be hugely beneficial. Don't see it as an extra tax, think of it as "rebalancing"... Wasn't all that long ago we had rates for private property - council tax has vastly reduced the amount payable on high value property.

But Labour would not "shift" the burden from income onto assets. It would simply add an additional burden on assets, keeping the existing impost on income. Labour has never reduced the overall tax burden.

[turbobloke]

edh said:

FiF said:

HoHoHo said:

but at what point do they start to think about combining value........

As previously said this is a slippery slope to combining all property, houses, land, cars, bank accounts, paintings, even pensions.

For example in one of the periodic bash those boomers the bar stewards stole our future efforts, pensioners being the new Jews you know, the example of the number of millionaire pensioners is often raised. Now to get to their number they included not just the value of any property and savings etc, but the notional capital value attached to any pension in payment assuming whatever financially jiggery pokery mathematics that the unprincipled oiks dreamt up.

Work hard provide for yourself and your own and soon have to wear a star.

A bit hyperbolic don't you think?

Shifting taxation from income and transactions onto assets, in particular land, would be hugely beneficial. Don't see it as an extra tax, think of it as "rebalancing"... Wasn't all that long ago we had rates for private property - council tax has vastly reduced the amount payable on high value property.

Who really thinks the property bubble is a good idea?

How many people work hard at the moment, just to survive & pay the bank? Landlords are often just the middle men, collecting rents for the banks.

Proper Land value tax would encourage efficient use of land, and penalise speculation. It would also collect the planning gain that currently accrues to private individuals from taxpayer funded improvements like Crossrail.

Lib Dem policy btw

Which people are rejecting at the same or higher level of rejection as the lunacy from Natalie Bennett's lot. Talking of which, in a certain other thread:

Greg66 said:

...history tells us taxes are very, very rarely abolished or even reduced that much, so LVT in this country would likely start low, be piled on top of other taxes, and then increased...

Starting low was challenged on that occasion, but politicians do what's possible, not necessarily what's academically satisfying or economically literate.

FiF's post wasn't hyperbole, it was spot on.

[Axionknight]

Zod said:

espite saving a lot, I worry already about the amount of my pension. To have £30k taken out of it by these utter wkers means it has not been worth saving at all.

Just down size once the kids have f'd off, tis' a sad day when such a thing is necessary to avoid a bill like that, though.

[HoHoHo]

Axionknight said:

Zod said:

espite saving a lot, I worry already about the amount of my pension. To have £30k taken out of it by these utter wkers means it has not been worth saving at all.

Just down size once the kids have f'd off, tis' a sad day when such a thing is necessary to avoid a bill like that, though.

That's a shed load of money to find in addition to council tax et al.

Looking at figures in slightly more detail let's assume the following (let's forget powerfully built company directors here for a second)

You are a professional living in a nice part of the country with a house worth £2.2m

Mansion tax = 1% or £22000 PA or £1833 PM

You earn a shed load of dosh by anyone's standards and let's say for the sake of argument £180,000 per annum

During 2015/2016 as a married man you'll take home £105,986. This equates to £8,832 in your pocket a month

20% of your monthly income is paid to the government in Mansion Tax leaving you with £6999 per month to play with - any you're likely to have a fairly hefty mortgage/school fees or whatever. That is still quite a lot of money I accept however your tax has just gone up by 20% of your net income..............and they may well put the higher rate up as well during their term in government.

This is fking scary stuff

Still, the NHS will be sorted by 5:15pm on his first day of power which is a huge relief.

Edited by HoHoHo on Wednesday 22 April 10:49

[blade runner]

HoHoHo said:

Still, the NHS will be sorted by 5:15pm on his first day of power which is a huge relief.

Yes, because all that money will be invested in just the right places and there will be a nice audit trail to ensure real benefit ensues and value for money has been achieved. Just like that 10billion or so that was wasted on a failed IT system for electronic patient records...