UK General Election 2015
Discussion
FiF said:
HoHoHo said:
but at what point do they start to think about combining value........
As previously said this is a slippery slope to combining all property, houses, land, cars, bank accounts, paintings, even pensions. For example in one of the periodic bash those boomers the bar stewards stole our future efforts, pensioners being the new Jews you know, the example of the number of millionaire pensioners is often raised. Now to get to their number they included not just the value of any property and savings etc, but the notional capital value attached to any pension in payment assuming whatever financially jiggery pokery mathematics that the unprincipled oiks dreamt up.
Work hard provide for yourself and your own and soon have to wear a star.
Shifting taxation from income and transactions onto assets, in particular land, would be hugely beneficial. Don't see it as an extra tax, think of it as "rebalancing"... Wasn't all that long ago we had rates for private property - council tax has vastly reduced the amount payable on high value property.
Who really thinks the property bubble is a good idea?
How many people work hard at the moment, just to survive & pay the bank? Landlords are often just the middle men, collecting rents for the banks.
Proper Land value tax would encourage efficient use of land, and penalise speculation. It would also collect the planning gain that currently accrues to private individuals from taxpayer funded improvements like Crossrail.
Lib Dem policy btw
When we retire, we plan to sell our family house & move somewhere smaller and more manageable - don't see the big deal really. I don' want a big house, big garden to maintain (just a big garage
) HoHoHo said:
The average mansion tax bill will be £24,000 per annum (based on 1% of value) and that's a tax to be paid year after year after year and if you can't afford to pay they back date payments the day to die and take it from your estate.
So if you retire in your nice house you'll need a pension income of around £35- £40k per annum (?) just to tread water with that bill alone
More likely you'll need a massive pension because you'll need to be a 40% tax payer to afford to pay this and general livings costs.
I can picture Millipede and his crowd rubbing their grubby, envious and greedy little left wings hands together think "that'll teach them for working hard during their life"
f
king unbelievable, simply fking unbelievable.
Despite saving a lot, I worry already about the amount of my pension. To have £30k taken out of it by these utter wSo if you retire in your nice house you'll need a pension income of around £35- £40k per annum (?) just to tread water with that bill alone
More likely you'll need a massive pension because you'll need to be a 40% tax payer to afford to pay this and general livings costs. I can picture Millipede and his crowd rubbing their grubby, envious and greedy little left wings hands together think "that'll teach them for working hard during their life"
f
king unbelievable, simply fking unbelievable.kers means it has not been worth saving at all.edh said:
FiF said:
HoHoHo said:
but at what point do they start to think about combining value........
As previously said this is a slippery slope to combining all property, houses, land, cars, bank accounts, paintings, even pensions. For example in one of the periodic bash those boomers the bar stewards stole our future efforts, pensioners being the new Jews you know, the example of the number of millionaire pensioners is often raised. Now to get to their number they included not just the value of any property and savings etc, but the notional capital value attached to any pension in payment assuming whatever financially jiggery pokery mathematics that the unprincipled oiks dreamt up.
Work hard provide for yourself and your own and soon have to wear a star.
Shifting taxation from income and transactions onto assets, in particular land, would be hugely beneficial. Don't see it as an extra tax, think of it as "rebalancing"... Wasn't all that long ago we had rates for private property - council tax has vastly reduced the amount payable on high value property.
edh said:
FiF said:
HoHoHo said:
but at what point do they start to think about combining value........
As previously said this is a slippery slope to combining all property, houses, land, cars, bank accounts, paintings, even pensions. For example in one of the periodic bash those boomers the bar stewards stole our future efforts, pensioners being the new Jews you know, the example of the number of millionaire pensioners is often raised. Now to get to their number they included not just the value of any property and savings etc, but the notional capital value attached to any pension in payment assuming whatever financially jiggery pokery mathematics that the unprincipled oiks dreamt up.
Work hard provide for yourself and your own and soon have to wear a star.
Shifting taxation from income and transactions onto assets, in particular land, would be hugely beneficial. Don't see it as an extra tax, think of it as "rebalancing"... Wasn't all that long ago we had rates for private property - council tax has vastly reduced the amount payable on high value property.
Who really thinks the property bubble is a good idea?
How many people work hard at the moment, just to survive & pay the bank? Landlords are often just the middle men, collecting rents for the banks.
Proper Land value tax would encourage efficient use of land, and penalise speculation. It would also collect the planning gain that currently accrues to private individuals from taxpayer funded improvements like Crossrail.
Lib Dem policy btw
Greg66 said:
...history tells us taxes are very, very rarely abolished or even reduced that much, so LVT in this country would likely start low, be piled on top of other taxes, and then increased...
Starting low was challenged on that occasion, but politicians do what's possible, not necessarily what's academically satisfying or economically literate.FiF's post wasn't hyperbole, it was spot on.
Zod said:
espite saving a lot, I worry already about the amount of my pension. To have £30k taken out of it by these utter wkers means it has not been worth saving at all.
Just down size once the kids have f'd off, tis' a sad day when such a thing is necessary to avoid a bill like that, though.kers means it has not been worth saving at all.Axionknight said:
Zod said:
espite saving a lot, I worry already about the amount of my pension. To have £30k taken out of it by these utter wkers means it has not been worth saving at all.
Just down size once the kids have f'd off, tis' a sad day when such a thing is necessary to avoid a bill like that, though.kers means it has not been worth saving at all.Looking at figures in slightly more detail let's assume the following (let's forget powerfully built company directors here for a second)
You are a professional living in a nice part of the country with a house worth £2.2m
Mansion tax = 1% or £22000 PA or £1833 PM
You earn a shed load of dosh by anyone's standards and let's say for the sake of argument £180,000 per annum
During 2015/2016 as a married man you'll take home £105,986. This equates to £8,832 in your pocket a month
20% of your monthly income is paid to the government in Mansion Tax leaving you with £6999 per month to play with - any you're likely to have a fairly hefty mortgage/school fees or whatever. That is still quite a lot of money I accept however your tax has just gone up by 20% of your net income..............and they may well put the higher rate up as well during their term in government.
This is f
king scary stuff 
Still, the NHS will be sorted by 5:15pm on his first day of power which is a huge relief.
Edited by HoHoHo on Wednesday 22 April 10:49
HoHoHo said:
Still, the NHS will be sorted by 5:15pm on his first day of power which is a huge relief.
Yes, because all that money will be invested in just the right places and there will be a nice audit trail to ensure real benefit ensues and value for money has been achieved. Just like that 10billion or so that was wasted on a failed IT system for electronic patient records...pingu393 said:
Axionknight said:
It might be the truth, but when they stand there and say livng standards have risen during the coalitions tenure and the figure is around the 1% mark, don't be surprised if the average joe doesn't feel any better off than he/she did five years ago.
Earn twenty thousand pounds after tax per annum sir? Because we have GOOD NEWS, you are 54p a day better off than you were under that Labour lot.
If you break into the cockpit of a plane that some wazzock has nose-dived from 30,000ft to 15,000ft after turning off three of the four engines, you've got to expect it to drop some more (and hear some noise) before you can fire them back up and return to cruising altitude. And you'd think "ungrateful bEarn twenty thousand pounds after tax per annum sir? Because we have GOOD NEWS, you are 54p a day better off than you were under that Labour lot.
Edited by Axionknight on Tuesday 21st April 12:49
ds" when they complain to you about the plane being late.Every time they get into number 10, they trash the UK economy, and leave it in a weakened state.
A decent NHS, schools, the benefits system, the public sector, the armed forces, roads, the police etc are all secondary elements to the economy, because without a sound economy we cannot have any of them, because they have to be paid for.
Labour have a factual track record of destroying the UK`s economy EVERY time they get into power, so a vote for them, is actually a vote for the eventual destruction of all the things we want for the UK.
turbobloke said:
edh said:
FiF said:
HoHoHo said:
but at what point do they start to think about combining value........
As previously said this is a slippery slope to combining all property, houses, land, cars, bank accounts, paintings, even pensions. For example in one of the periodic bash those boomers the bar stewards stole our future efforts, pensioners being the new Jews you know, the example of the number of millionaire pensioners is often raised. Now to get to their number they included not just the value of any property and savings etc, but the notional capital value attached to any pension in payment assuming whatever financially jiggery pokery mathematics that the unprincipled oiks dreamt up.
Work hard provide for yourself and your own and soon have to wear a star.
Shifting taxation from income and transactions onto assets, in particular land, would be hugely beneficial. Don't see it as an extra tax, think of it as "rebalancing"... Wasn't all that long ago we had rates for private property - council tax has vastly reduced the amount payable on high value property.
Who really thinks the property bubble is a good idea?
How many people work hard at the moment, just to survive & pay the bank? Landlords are often just the middle men, collecting rents for the banks.
Proper Land value tax would encourage efficient use of land, and penalise speculation. It would also collect the planning gain that currently accrues to private individuals from taxpayer funded improvements like Crossrail.
Lib Dem policy btw
Greg66 said:
...history tells us taxes are very, very rarely abolished or even reduced that much, so LVT in this country would likely start low, be piled on top of other taxes, and then increased...
Starting low was challenged on that occasion, but politicians do what's possible, not necessarily what's academically satisfying or economically literate.FiF's post wasn't hyperbole, it was spot on.
vonuber said:
Given the way property prices in London are going there could be a lot of ordinary folks getting clobbered because they had the misfortune to live in the same area for 20 years.
I thought that earlier and it's going to be an absolute killer for those on low income (retired etc.)Sure they can sell but this tax goes so much further than simply taking money from peoples pockets.
HoHoHo said:
I thought that earlier and it's going to be an absolute killer for those on low income (retired etc.)
Sure they can sell but this tax goes so much further than simply taking money from peoples pockets.
Dangerous stuff indeed!Sure they can sell but this tax goes so much further than simply taking money from peoples pockets.
Amazing though how so many people (my brother included) are so short sighted and will vote Labour simply because they say they will hire more nurses. They completely disregard the bigger picture and fail to realise that the parties are throwing anything into the mix to get people on board.
funkyrobot said:
Dangerous stuff indeed!
Amazing though how so many people (my brother included) are so short sighted and will vote Labour simply because they say they will hire more nurses. They completely disregard the bigger picture and fail to realise that the parties are throwing anything into the mix to get people on board.
As we all know, to many the NHS is a sacred cow that can only be fed more and more. The mere mention of 'efficiency' or 'not fit for purpose' is anathema to these people. Amazing though how so many people (my brother included) are so short sighted and will vote Labour simply because they say they will hire more nurses. They completely disregard the bigger picture and fail to realise that the parties are throwing anything into the mix to get people on board.
I've tried having the discussion with people before about the NHS being unsustainable with the change in life expectancy now compared to when it was set up, let alone the inefficiencies that exist. The response is as though I insulted their mother!
I am playing with the democratic dashboard website and looking at the seats in Scotland, my seat of Gordon is classed as Marginal and i have a relatively high voting power with my vote.
However taking the press stories that the SNP are expected to sweep to victory with some 50 seats, i cant quite see how this all adds up.
In the last 3 elections both uk and Holyrood most of the seats have been massively either labour or lib dem, with some SNP support.
However according to recent polling the vote is now looking to be massively the other way towards the SNP.
I cannot fathom how so many people are swiching from Labour to the SNP or Lib Dem to SNP.
I realise many will come out to vote and this will swell the SNP numbers after the loss at the referendum, but is till cant see in quite a few places an almost 35% swing from Labour to SNP.
My GF is worried and i am a bit to TBH, but i dont think the SNP are going to get half as many seats as they think they are.
I can see them getting a lot, like 20 odd, but to get all of Scotland i think is wishfull thinking.
Am i pissing in the wind of hope here or does anyone else share my view that i cant see the labour vote collapsing as much as many see.
However taking the press stories that the SNP are expected to sweep to victory with some 50 seats, i cant quite see how this all adds up.
In the last 3 elections both uk and Holyrood most of the seats have been massively either labour or lib dem, with some SNP support.
However according to recent polling the vote is now looking to be massively the other way towards the SNP.
I cannot fathom how so many people are swiching from Labour to the SNP or Lib Dem to SNP.
I realise many will come out to vote and this will swell the SNP numbers after the loss at the referendum, but is till cant see in quite a few places an almost 35% swing from Labour to SNP.
My GF is worried and i am a bit to TBH, but i dont think the SNP are going to get half as many seats as they think they are.
I can see them getting a lot, like 20 odd, but to get all of Scotland i think is wishfull thinking.
Am i pissing in the wind of hope here or does anyone else share my view that i cant see the labour vote collapsing as much as many see.
Justayellowbadge said:
HoHoHo said:
Sure they can sell.
Can they? The market for anything within sniffing distance either way of 2M will flatline. Already happens around SDLT thresholds. 
funkyrobot said:
Dangerous stuff indeed!
Amazing though how so many people (my brother included) are so short sighted and will vote Labour simply because they say they will hire more nurses. They completely disregard the bigger picture and fail to realise that the parties are throwing anything into the mix to get people on board.
I'm not sure how you can convince those like your brother they really are wasting their vote?Amazing though how so many people (my brother included) are so short sighted and will vote Labour simply because they say they will hire more nurses. They completely disregard the bigger picture and fail to realise that the parties are throwing anything into the mix to get people on board.
vonuber said:
Given the way property prices in London are going there could be a lot of ordinary folks getting clobbered because they had the misfortune to live in the same area for 20 years.
There are several old people on our street who have lived there for thirty, forty or fifty years, having bought their houses for relatively modest amounts of money and who live on modest pensions. Their houses are now worth £2m+ and they will simply not be able to pay the mansion tax. QUite a few of them (this is North London) will be Labour voters.Zod said:
vonuber said:
Given the way property prices in London are going there could be a lot of ordinary folks getting clobbered because they had the misfortune to live in the same area for 20 years.
There are several old people on our street who have lived there for thirty, forty or fifty years, having bought their houses for relatively modest amounts of money and who live on modest pensions. Their houses are now worth £2m+ and they will simply not be able to pay the mansion tax. QUite a few of them (this is North London) will be Labour voters.ked they'll be shortly.If they insist on voting Labour - try not to laugh too much as you walk back home.
garyhun said:
As we all know, to many the NHS is a sacred cow that can only be fed more and more. The mere mention of 'efficiency' or 'not fit for purpose' is anathema to these people.
I've tried having the discussion with people before about the NHS being unsustainable with the change in life expectancy now compared to when it was set up, let alone the inefficiencies that exist. The response is as though I insulted their mother!
I worked for the NHS on an off from 1999 to 2005 (2003 - 2005 was full time). I saw first hand what a dinosaur it was and the type of people that flourish there. We had meetings for meetings, massive job title and pay reviews that didn't achieve much and people were having jollies all of the time. I have never known people to spend so much money visiting pointless conferences and having meetings at lavish hotels when the buildings we were in had sufficient rooms.I've tried having the discussion with people before about the NHS being unsustainable with the change in life expectancy now compared to when it was set up, let alone the inefficiencies that exist. The response is as though I insulted their mother!
As you say, people do not seem to understand that simply throwing more money at something will not always make it better. What is the point of doing this if you don't address the reason why you need to throw more money at it? Would these people fix an oil leak on a car or simply keep pouring more oil into it?
It really grates me as some people are so, so stupid. I love my brother, but he is really silly when it comes to the current electioneering and the NHS.
More money for the NHS? If yes, you have my vote mister (I don't care about the rest of your policies). Such a silly thing to base your voting preference on.
HoHoHo said:
Justayellowbadge said:
HoHoHo said:
Sure they can sell.
Can they? The market for anything within sniffing distance either way of 2M will flatline. Already happens around SDLT thresholds. Something appraised at, say, 1.95M could end up being fought over and selling at significantly more, as it is liability free.
A similar property assigned a price of 2.05M will be all but unsaleable unless discounted to take into account the MT costs for a few years. 1.7M perhaps?
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