UK General Election 2015

[BGARK]

Greg66 said:

BGARK said:

How many stupid people own Mansions and will just put up with this?

What do you suggest the clever mansion owners do to not put up with this?

Or more generally, what do you suggest anyone who doesn't agree with a tax does about it?

Reduce value of property to fall below threshold. Is the government going to guess values or pay to survey all of them?

How do you force someone to pay £25k/PA more if they say they cannot afford to?

My point being that if you live to the level of owning a "mansion" you are usually educated enough to find ways around things. It will end up costing more that it will generate.

[Zod]

BGARK said:

Greg66 said:

BGARK said:

How many stupid people own Mansions and will just put up with this?

What do you suggest the clever mansion owners do to not put up with this?

Or more generally, what do you suggest anyone who doesn't agree with a tax does about it?

Reduce value of property to fall below threshold. Is the government going to guess values or pay to survey all of them?

How do you force someone to pay £25k/PA more if they say they cannot afford to?

My point being that if you live to the level of owning a "mansion" you are usually educated enough to find ways around things. It will end up costing more that it will generate.

No, Labour will make homeowners pay for valuations.

[s2art]

Zod said:

BGARK said:

Greg66 said:

BGARK said:

How many stupid people own Mansions and will just put up with this?

What do you suggest the clever mansion owners do to not put up with this?

Or more generally, what do you suggest anyone who doesn't agree with a tax does about it?

Reduce value of property to fall below threshold. Is the government going to guess values or pay to survey all of them?

How do you force someone to pay £25k/PA more if they say they cannot afford to?

My point being that if you live to the level of owning a "mansion" you are usually educated enough to find ways around things. It will end up costing more that it will generate.

No, Labour will make homeowners pay for valuations.

Labour just might be stupid enough to try that. Imagine the discussion between homeowner and estate agent; 'I am paying for this valuation, make sure its less than 2 million if you want any money off me!'

[Zod]

Alex Salmond said:

(from around 3:50) He [Labour spokesperson on TV] said famously: “The Scottish Labour leader will not be writing the Labour party budget.” But then I knew that already, because I’m writing the Labour party budget

[anonymous-user]

BGARK said:

Reduce value of property to fall below threshold.

Perhaps I'm insufficiently imaginative, but short of knocking some holes in you house, or parking a dead fridge freezer and a stained mattress in the front garden, how does one reduce the value of one's house?

I've read of some schemes to sub-divide houses and lease the the divided parts back, but I'd be surprised if HMRC (or whoever has to enforce this) will be daft enough to fall for that scam.

BGARK said:

Is the government going to guess values or pay to survey all of them?

No idea, but I'd be surprised if the cost isn't going to be borne by those affected somehow.

BGARK said:

How do you force someone to pay £25k/PA more if they say they cannot afford to?

The same way you do any other unpaid tax. County court judgments, bailiffs, bankruptcy and ultimately sale of the house.

BGARK said:

My point being that if you live to the level of owning a "mansion" you are usually educated enough to find ways around things. It will end up costing more that it will generate.

Finding ways round things - in the shape of tax evasion? The trouble is that most of the people owning mansions are, contrary perhaps to popular opinion, fundamentally honest and don't have a huge appetite for exposing their family to financial risk. They will not be interested in scams. Much like every other scheme to tax basically law-abiding people, for the Govt this is like shooting fish in a barrel.

[MGJohn]

BlackLabel said:

Miliband's price continues to shorten in the betting markets.

Good reasons for this apart from some folks having already convinced themselves that Ed. M. will be PM.

It's also a way the heavy hitters in business who would prefer DC as PM to hedge against not having a Tory Government. Big money talks. Always did. Bet on Ed for PM and smile if he does reach No.10 as you collect your winnings.... 'appens.... whilst grimacing at the decline which will surely follow.

With over two weeks still to go, it's far from a done deal despite what the experts would have you believe.

Mind you if the bookies have got it right and Ed reaches No. 10, this former Labour voter will be very disappointed with both the system and the mindset of the British people ... and not for the first time by a long chalk.

In any event, we are doomed to continuing decline.

[Justayellowbadge]

I wonder what the Mansion Tax will do to higher end rentals?

2k pm for a property you could be realistically letting for 4k is enough of a hit to make it uneconomic if there's even a sliver of a mortgage.

Passing it on to tenants wouldn't work either, no-one's going to accept a 50% overnight hike, even corporates.

[blade runner]

Greg66 said:

BGARK said:

How do you force someone to pay £25k/PA more if they say they cannot afford to?

The same way you do any other unpaid tax. County court judgments, bailiffs, bankruptcy and ultimately sale of the house.

Can't wait for the first one of these when a supposed £2m house is sold on the open market and fails to reach anything like £2m due to the mansion tax threshold. Any chance you think of the previous owner appealing?

[BGARK]

s2art said:

Labour just might be stupid enough to try that. Imagine the discussion between homeowner and estate agent; 'I am paying for this valuation, make sure its less than 2 million if you want any money off me!'

Exactly this, a few K in the back-pocket of an Estate Agent to save £25K per year, no brainer!

I am going to dust off my "house valuation certificate"...

[pingu393]

Are there any odds for a Tory win (i.e. most seats), but Ed Miliband to be PM?

[turbobloke]

pingu393 said:

Are there any odds for a Tory win (i.e. most seats), but Ed Miliband to be PM?

Might be necessary to look at individual odds for each, i.e. Tories most seats one price, Ed as PM (jeez) another price, then place a double.

[HoHoHo]

BGARK said:

s2art said:

Labour just might be stupid enough to try that. Imagine the discussion between homeowner and estate agent; 'I am paying for this valuation, make sure its less than 2 million if you want any money off me!'

Exactly this, a few K in the back-pocket of an Estate Agent to save £25K per year, no brainer!

I am going to dust off my "house valuation certificate"...

Ah, but they'll surely have men eagerly looking at house prices suggesting the house you purchased last year for £1.95m is now worth £2.1m based on X growth and then bingo - gotcha...........

[Einion Yrth]

HoHoHo said:

BGARK said:

s2art said:

Labour just might be stupid enough to try that. Imagine the discussion between homeowner and estate agent; 'I am paying for this valuation, make sure its less than 2 million if you want any money off me!'

Exactly this, a few K in the back-pocket of an Estate Agent to save £25K per year, no brainer!

I am going to dust off my "house valuation certificate"...

Ah, but they'll surely have men eagerly looking at house prices suggesting the house you purchased last year for £1.95m is now worth £2.1m based on X growth and then bingo - gotcha...........

Alternatively, a house that cost £1.95 million when it didn't attract a swingeing envy tax is going to be worth a hell of a lot less once it does.

[BGARK]

HoHoHo said:

BGARK said:

s2art said:

Labour just might be stupid enough to try that. Imagine the discussion between homeowner and estate agent; 'I am paying for this valuation, make sure its less than 2 million if you want any money off me!'

Exactly this, a few K in the back-pocket of an Estate Agent to save £25K per year, no brainer!

I am going to dust off my "house valuation certificate"...

Ah, but they'll surely have men eagerly looking at house prices suggesting the house you purchased last year for £1.95m is now worth £2.1m based on X growth and then bingo - gotcha...........

Ok, so valuations are not needed, can someone make their mind up?

[HoHoHo]

BGARK said:

HoHoHo said:

BGARK said:

s2art said:

Labour just might be stupid enough to try that. Imagine the discussion between homeowner and estate agent; 'I am paying for this valuation, make sure its less than 2 million if you want any money off me!'

Exactly this, a few K in the back-pocket of an Estate Agent to save £25K per year, no brainer!

I am going to dust off my "house valuation certificate"...

Ah, but they'll surely have men eagerly looking at house prices suggesting the house you purchased last year for £1.95m is now worth £2.1m based on X growth and then bingo - gotcha...........

Ok, so valuations are not needed, can someone make their mind up?

Surely they will be - just think of the money that will be spent setting this little number up.

I bet if you asked Labour how much it will cost to implement they'd have no idea.

[Zod]

HoHoHo said:

BGARK said:

HoHoHo said:

BGARK said:

s2art said:

Labour just might be stupid enough to try that. Imagine the discussion between homeowner and estate agent; 'I am paying for this valuation, make sure its less than 2 million if you want any money off me!'

Exactly this, a few K in the back-pocket of an Estate Agent to save £25K per year, no brainer!

I am going to dust off my "house valuation certificate"...

Ah, but they'll surely have men eagerly looking at house prices suggesting the house you purchased last year for £1.95m is now worth £2.1m based on X growth and then bingo - gotcha...........

Ok, so valuations are not needed, can someone make their mind up?

Surely they will be - just think of the money that will be spent setting this little number up.

I bet if you asked Labour how much it will cost to implement they'd have no idea.

Correct: they have absolutely no idea.

[Mojocvh]

turbobloke said:

edh said:

FiF said:

HoHoHo said:

but at what point do they start to think about combining value........

As previously said this is a slippery slope to combining all property, houses, land, cars, bank accounts, paintings, even pensions.

For example in one of the periodic bash those boomers the bar stewards stole our future efforts, pensioners being the new Jews you know, the example of the number of millionaire pensioners is often raised. Now to get to their number they included not just the value of any property and savings etc, but the notional capital value attached to any pension in payment assuming whatever financially jiggery pokery mathematics that the unprincipled oiks dreamt up.

Work hard provide for yourself and your own and soon have to wear a star.

A bit hyperbolic don't you think?

Shifting taxation from income and transactions onto assets, in particular land, would be hugely beneficial. Don't see it as an extra tax, think of it as "rebalancing"... Wasn't all that long ago we had rates for private property - council tax has vastly reduced the amount payable on high value property.

Who really thinks the property bubble is a good idea?

How many people work hard at the moment, just to survive & pay the bank? Landlords are often just the middle men, collecting rents for the banks.

Proper Land value tax would encourage efficient use of land, and penalise speculation. It would also collect the planning gain that currently accrues to private individuals from taxpayer funded improvements like Crossrail.

Lib Dem policy btw

Which people are rejecting at the same or higher level of rejection as the lunacy from Natalie Bennett's lot. Talking of which, in a certain other thread:

Greg66 said:

...history tells us taxes are very, very rarely abolished or even reduced that much, so LVT in this country would likely start low, be piled on top of other taxes, and then increased...

Starting low was challenged on that occasion, but politicians do what's possible, not necessarily what's academically satisfying or economically literate.

FiF's post wasn't hyperbole, it was spot on.

Yes is was factually correct, I had a [false] hmrc claim for allowances taken from my public pension. It's taken many, many months for them to agree to the error despite having received and verified the documentation......... the clue is "pension" I was PAYE but they still went for the pension...

[anonymous-user]

blade runner said:

Labour claim £2b but more likely to be around £1.3b or even less (which is peanuts in the scheme of things).

The point is not to raise tax. It's to divide the country into 'rich toff tory bds' sat in their mansions and 'hardworking families' struggling with the cost of living. It doesn't matter that obviously the vast majority of Tories don't live in 'mansions', it's just clever marketing.

[Scuffers]

exactly

I don't often agree with Myleene Class, but she was 100% right with Millipede.

This and the Non-Dom bullst are all about the politics of envy.

[Mafffew]

fblm said:

The point is not to raise tax. It's to divide the country into 'rich toff tory bds' sat in their mansions and 'hardworking families' struggling with the cost of living. It doesn't matter that obviously the vast majority of Tories don't live in 'mansions', it's just clever marketing.

To call it clever is a bit of an overstatement. It's just using an old stereotype to pander to a certain group of people. Sadly, it's a lot of thick people and it seems to be working.