UK General Election 2015

[FredClogs]

MGJohn said:

FredClogs said:

Scuffers said:

My view is the state is not there to pay for you to breed, if you can't afford children, don't have them (its not a human right etc)

This is such a sad place to be. You genuinely consider the continuation of the human race and having children to be the sole preserve of the wealthy? That young life can be valued in cash terms? In your world where would be in 2 generations? Only left with rich people? Is that how you understand the economy and humanity to be? I mean wtf.

It just so depresses me that opinions like yours exist.

There again, there are some, myself included, who are depressed with your stance on this matter.

Care to explain why? Do you believe people are to be blamed for being poor?

[4v6]

FredClogs said:

This is such a sad place to be. You genuinely consider the continuation of the human race and having children to be the sole preserve of the wealthy? That young life can be valued in cash terms? In your world where would be in 2 generations? Only left with rich people? Is that how you understand the economy and humanity to be? I mean wtf.

It just so depresses me that opinions like yours exist.

Love opinions like this, makes total sense not to go pushing percy in any vacant holes whilst theres only enough food for you and the missis.
A couple of million starved to death africans will attest to that.

Or you could just accept a greater share of the tax burden and pay for more kids of other less wealthy and less responsible individuals?

No? Didnt think so!

[IainT]

Boydie88 said:

There will come a point where the world cannot provide for the number of people on it.

yawn-quack (it's a tired canard)

World population is not on a linear trajectory. Go do some really basic research on population forecasts and trend and you'll have a sunnier view of the future.

The inverse link between wealth and population growth is very strong - as more of our planet is brought out of absolute poverty and gain higher levels of health care and education so the birth rates decrease.

[Boydie88]

IainT said:

yawn-quack (it's a tired canard)

World population is not on a linear trajectory. Go do some really basic research on population forecasts and trend and you'll have a sunnier view of the future.

The inverse link between wealth and population growth is very strong - as more of our planet is brought out of absolute poverty and gain higher levels of health care and education so the birth rates decrease.

But as the world is brought out of poverty, death rates will decrease. Coupled with longer life expectancy and more cures to disease. I know it's not a straight line, but I think you're a bit daft if you think it will find a happy plateau.

As for the sunnier view, it won't be life time so I'm not fussed really but it strikes me as hypocritical when the left bleat about saving the world by curing everyone and encouraging population increase.

Edited by Boydie88 on Thursday 30th April 15:18

[anonymous-user]

Boydie88 said:

But as the world is brought out of poverty, death rates will decrease. Coupled with longer life expectancy and more cures to disease. I know it's not a straight line, but I think you're a bit daft if you think it will find a happy plateau.

You're ignoring birthrates.

http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_shows_the_be...

[Boydie88]

fblm said:

You're ignoring birthrates.

http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_shows_the_be...

Awesome video, I've a strange liking of stats but which part of that thinks world population will find a happy level?

Simply, population is still increasing in the richest countries. What will cause birth rates to drop to below 2 per couple?

[FredClogs]

4v6 said:

FredClogs said:

This is such a sad place to be. You genuinely consider the continuation of the human race and having children to be the sole preserve of the wealthy? That young life can be valued in cash terms? In your world where would be in 2 generations? Only left with rich people? Is that how you understand the economy and humanity to be? I mean wtf.

It just so depresses me that opinions like yours exist.

Love opinions like this, makes total sense not to go pushing percy in any vacant holes whilst theres only enough food for you and the missis.
A couple of million starved to death africans will attest to that.

Or you could just accept a greater share of the tax burden and pay for more kids of other less wealthy and less responsible individuals?

No? Didnt think so!

You think Africa is poor because of over population? WTF! Seriously, you think that if Africans stopped giving birth the future of those nations would improve?

You think not having sex is "responsible" what a puritanical load of rubbish and if I may be so bold you're only concerned about the protection of your own wealth, which unless your some kind of millionaire in exile is entirely bound up in the nature of economic growth and future growth and your relative position and vicinity to the source of that growth.

Believe me you do not want to live in an economy with a falling birth rate, falling and aging population and shrinking supply of cash - you just don't...

[IainT]

fblm said:

Boydie88 said:

But as the world is brought out of poverty, death rates will decrease. Coupled with longer life expectancy and more cures to disease. I know it's not a straight line, but I think you're a bit daft if you think it will find a happy plateau.

You're ignoring birthrates.

http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_shows_the_be...

Exactly!

Boydie - the projections take into account longer life-spans that are a result of healthcare and dietary improvements. The underlying driver is the replacement birth rates and the stable birth rates of wealthy societies. From memory each (western) couple needs to have 2.1 children to maintain stable population (average, accounting for early accidental deaths, infertility and choice).

EU average is 1.6 children per woman. 1.88 in the US.

[MGJohn]

FredClogs said:

MGJohn said:

FredClogs said:

Scuffers said:

My view is the state is not there to pay for you to breed, if you can't afford children, don't have them (its not a human right etc)

This is such a sad place to be. You genuinely consider the continuation of the human race and having children to be the sole preserve of the wealthy? That young life can be valued in cash terms? In your world where would be in 2 generations? Only left with rich people? Is that how you understand the economy and humanity to be? I mean wtf.

It just so depresses me that opinions like yours exist.

There again, there are some, myself included, who are depressed with your stance on this matter.

Care to explain why? Do you believe people are to be blamed for being poor?

OK. I'll have a go. My background means few come any poorer than me. Plus whilst still at school my feckless mother pissed off leaving me and my younger brother to get on with things. Hugely affected my education and I have under achieved as a result. We did not have two pennies to rub together. We survived although we had every "excuse" to go off the rails. We did not. Both myself and younger brother contributed and made something of ourselves. I retired a few years ago aged 68 so I've done my bit and then some. Now folks accuse me of being lucky as I own my properties and all my cars are paid for. Luck did not play any part in that. Hard work and responsible planning did the "lucky" bit for me and my brother. Like waiting until I had broken the back of my crippling Mortgage before we considered having and affording the cost of children. I was forty-two when our first child came along. We have two fine sons both adults now. No direct state funded breeding for my generation.

Nothing special about me. If I could do it, there's no excuse for others. It means working though...often hard and long.

So get out there and "earn" the right to breed, not as many have done, put your feet up and breed at taxpayers expense. Seeing front pages of newspapers time and again with such breeding types with huge numbers of children all financed by taxpayers makes my blood boil.

I now fully realise I've been a mug all my life. Could have had a life of leisure and pleasure taking advantage of our fertility and get the Taxpayer to pick up the tab. Saved a fortune on contraceptives too. It's my "right". I demand a SKY dish and you dear taxpayer must "rightfully" pay for it!

===============================

I'm still voting United Kingdom Independence Party. Independence from the blood sucker EU.

Even if the poisonous women gets her way and severs her country from the United Kingdom means divided we fall. Which is a possibilty...

Worse still, there are many who are convinced the Two Eds have the answer ... That's so laughable.

If you think I'm more that a little angry about the way things are shaping up in my country today, you're dead right!

Pick holes in that.

[rover 623gsi]

Boydie88 said:

Awesome video, I've a strange liking of stats but which part of that thinks world population will find a happy level?

Simply, population is still increasing in the richest countries. What will cause birth rates to drop to below 2 per couple?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/11414064/How-Europe-is-slowly-dying-despite-an-increasing-world-population.html

How Europe is slowly dying despite an increasing world population

[Bluebarge]

FredClogs said:

You think Africa is poor because of over population? WTF! Seriously, you think that if Africans stopped giving birth the future of those nations would improve?

Actually, contraception for women in Africa has a massive impact on their quality of life; shelling out sprogs every 12 months leads to an early grave for many women. Fewer mouths to feed would most certainly lead to a higher quality of life for the general population, as it did in the UK after the Black Death - shortage of labour led to the birth of political rights for the masses and broke the feudal system.

[Boydie88]

IainT said:

Exactly!

Boydie - the projections take into account longer life-spans that are a result of healthcare and dietary improvements. The underlying driver is the replacement birth rates and the stable birth rates of wealthy societies. From memory each (western) couple needs to have 2.1 children to maintain stable population (average, accounting for early accidental deaths, infertility and choice).

EU average is 1.6 children per woman. 1.88 in the US.

If we are still increasing world population at an alarming rate (compared to the age of the planet), will we get a point where the 'third world' no longer exists and every woman is having 2.1 children before the world population is unsustainable? In nature, the goal of life is to reproduce. What makes you think humans will act differently?

Anyway, this is all going a bit beyond welfare caps. As the video shows, money tends to mean healthy kids. So maybe kids 1 and 2 should be helped towards by the state in the sense of a credit that can only be spent on the kid's future. But beyond that, not in my opinion. It's then irresponsible parenting.

[hidetheelephants]

Esseesse said:

Scuffers said:

Axionknight said:

So society is a breeding based, never ending ponzi scheme?

Precisely....

Here's a question, what do people think the realistic number is for the UK to be full/overcrowded?

bear in mind the Supermarkets already think there are some 70M people in the UK.

IIRC once upon a time it was thought that the UK could sustain around 40M I think? So perhaps with modern farming techniques, 50M?

With new farming techniques like this being developed the limitations of being able to feed extra billions arguably aren't there any more.

FredClogs said:

This is such a sad place to be. You genuinely consider the continuation of the human race and having children to be the sole preserve of the wealthy? That young life can be valued in cash terms? In your world where would be in 2 generations? Only left with rich people? Is that how you understand the economy and humanity to be? I mean wtf.

It just so depresses me that opinions like yours exist.

I've no objections to people breeding like rabbits, but I don't want to have to pay for it; child benefit should be available only for the first two or three, any beyond that and you're on your own. Stupid people's sexual incontinence is not my or the state's responsibility.

[FredClogs]

MGJohn said:

FredClogs said:

MGJohn said:

FredClogs said:

Scuffers said:

My view is the state is not there to pay for you to breed, if you can't afford children, don't have them (its not a human right etc)

This is such a sad place to be. You genuinely consider the continuation of the human race and having children to be the sole preserve of the wealthy? That young life can be valued in cash terms? In your world where would be in 2 generations? Only left with rich people? Is that how you understand the economy and humanity to be? I mean wtf.

It just so depresses me that opinions like yours exist.

There again, there are some, myself included, who are depressed with your stance on this matter.

Care to explain why? Do you believe people are to be blamed for being poor?

OK. I'll have a go. My background means few come any poorer than me. Plus whilst still at school my feckless mother pissed off leaving me and my younger brother to get on with things. Hugely affected my education and I have under achieved as a result. We did not have two pennies to rub together. We survived although we had every "excuse" to go off the rails. We did not. Both myself and younger brother contributed and made something of ourselves. I retired a few years ago aged 68 so I've done my bit and then some. Now folks accuse me of being lucky as I own my properties and all my cars are paid for. Luck did not play any part in that. Hard work and responsible planning did the "lucky" bit for me and my brother. Like waiting until I had broken the back of my crippling Mortgage before we considered having and affording the cost of children. I was forty-two when our first child came along. We have two fine sons both adults now. No direct state funded breeding for my generation.

Nothing special about me. If I could do it, there's no excuse for others. It means working though...often hard and long.

So get out there and "earn" the right to breed, not as many have done, put your feet up and breed at taxpayers expense. Seeing front pages of newspapers time and again with such breeding types with huge numbers of children all financed by taxpayers makes my blood boil.

I now fully realise I've been a mug all my life. Could have had a life of leisure and pleasure taking advantage of our fertility and get the Taxpayer to pick up the tab. Saved a fortune on contraceptives too. It's my "right". I demand a SKY dish and you dear taxpayer must "rightfully" pay for it!

===============================

I'm still voting United Kingdom Independence Party. Independence from the blood sucker EU.

Even if the poisonous women gets her way and severs her country from the United Kingdom means divided we fall. Which is a possibilty...

Worse still, there are many who are convinced the Two Eds have the answer ... That's so laughable.

If you think I'm more that a little angry about the way things are shaping up in my country today, you're dead right!

Pick holes in that.

Are you telling us that you believe that people like you shouldn't have been born, I mean I just want to be clear about where you're coming from. Sounds like you want to shape a brave new world.

[anonymous-user]

Boydie88 said:

Awesome video, I've a strange liking of stats but which part of that thinks world population will find a happy level?

Simply, population is still increasing in the richest countries. What will cause birth rates to drop to below 2 per couple?

Brithrates already below that in western world. This vid is by the same guy, well worth watching the whole lot but the link is to the most relevant 5 mins...

https://youtu.be/fJATiIhFaCE?t=1129

[BlackLabel]

The Labour candidate in the key marginal seat of Pendle in Lancashire is using the same dirty tricks that former Tower Hamlets mayor Lutfur Rahman used.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/573964/Musl...

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/articl...

[markh1973]

MGJohn said:

OK. I'll have a go. My background means few come any poorer than me. Plus whilst still at school my feckless mother pissed off leaving me and my younger brother to get on with things. Hugely affected my education and I have under achieved as a result. We did not have two pennies to rub together. We survived although we had every "excuse" to go off the rails. We did not. Both myself and younger brother contributed and made something of ourselves. I retired a few years ago aged 68 so I've done my bit and then some. Now folks accuse me of being lucky as I own my properties and all my cars are paid for. Luck did not play any part in that. Hard work and responsible planning did the "lucky" bit for me and my brother. Like waiting until I had broken the back of my crippling Mortgage before we considered having and affording the cost of children. I was forty-two when our first child came along. We have two fine sons both adults now. No direct state funded breeding for my generation.

Nothing special about me. If I could do it, there's no excuse for others. It means working though...often hard and long.

So get out there and "earn" the right to breed, not as many have done, put your feet up and breed at taxpayers expense. Seeing front pages of newspapers time and again with such breeding types with huge numbers of children all financed by taxpayers makes my blood boil.

I now fully realise I've been a mug all my life. Could have had a life of leisure and pleasure taking advantage of our fertility and get the Taxpayer to pick up the tab. Saved a fortune on contraceptives too. It's my "right". I demand a SKY dish and you dear taxpayer must "rightfully" pay for it!

===============================

I'm still voting United Kingdom Independence Party. Independence from the blood sucker EU.

Even if the poisonous women gets her way and severs her country from the United Kingdom means divided we fall. Which is a possibilty...

Worse still, there are many who are convinced the Two Eds have the answer ... That's so laughable.

If you think I'm more that a little angry about the way things are shaping up in my country today, you're dead right!

Pick holes in that.

Are you saying that you didn't receive Child Benefit for your kids? Married Couples Allowance? MIRAS?

[Axionknight]

MGJohn said:

OK. I'll have a go. My background means few come any poorer than me. Plus whilst still at school my feckless mother pissed off leaving me and my younger brother to get on with things. Hugely affected my education and I have under achieved as a result. We did not have two pennies to rub together. We survived although we had every "excuse" to go off the rails. We did not. Both myself and younger brother contributed and made something of ourselves. I retired a few years ago aged 68 so I've done my bit and then some. Now folks accuse me of being lucky as I own my properties and all my cars are paid for. Luck did not play any part in that. Hard work and responsible planning did the "lucky" bit for me and my brother. Like waiting until I had broken the back of my crippling Mortgage before we considered having and affording the cost of children. I was forty-two when our first child came along. We have two fine sons both adults now. No direct state funded breeding for my generation.

Nothing special about me. If I could do it, there's no excuse for others. It means working though...often hard and long.

So get out there and "earn" the right to breed, not as many have done, put your feet up and breed at taxpayers expense. Seeing front pages of newspapers time and again with such breeding types with huge numbers of children all financed by taxpayers makes my blood boil.

I now fully realise I've been a mug all my life. Could have had a life of leisure and pleasure taking advantage of our fertility and get the Taxpayer to pick up the tab. Saved a fortune on contraceptives too. It's my "right". I demand a SKY dish and you dear taxpayer must "rightfully" pay for it!
Pick holes in that.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaye the olden days, where nobody had an inside toilet and international travel or surviving cancer was a pipe dream for many - those were the good old days, boy we had it tough, not like you little sts today, we had to walk six miles to school and back - and it was uphill both ways!

Edited by Axionknight on Thursday 30th April 17:41

[hidetheelephants]

BlackLabel said:

The Labour candidate in the key marginal seat of Pendle in Lancashire is using the same dirty tricks that former Tower Hamlets mayor Lutfur Rahman used.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/573964/Musl...

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/articl...

Fascinating how bribing corrupt imams to 'proclaim' you as a descendant of a schizoid paedophile works as a vote winner. The sale of indulgences continues to fund this nonsense, just like it funded the towering edifices of medieval religion.

[Welshbeef]

hidetheelephants said:

Fascinating how bribing corrupt imams to 'proclaim' you as a descendant of a schizoid paedophile works as a vote winner. The sale of indulgences continues to fund this nonsense, just like it funded the towering edifices of medieval religion.

It's a labour MP those with Vested interest will lap it up.


Vote UKIP