UK General Election 2015
Discussion
Greg66 said:
steveT350C said:
Says who?
You: Scuffers said:
7 way?
that's going to be a complete waste of time...
that's going to be a complete waste of time...
steveT350C said:
Agreed; dilutes everyone too much.
Milliband and CMD escape Farage.
Milliband and CMD escape Farage.
and CMD and Milliband get their own, undiluted, 1 on 1, and avoid Farage.
steveT350C said:
Greg66 said:
The only two people it dilutes are the PM and the Leader of the Opposition.
Farage's problem, I suspect, will be living up to the expectation. I've seen it said a few times that he will wipe the floor with the rest of them. He runs the risk of disappointing by failing to deliver to that standard.
Miliband should be made to squirm by possible allegiances with Sturgeon and the watermelons, which (I hope) will shock many into realising that the drak circle they've been looking at is, in fact, the wrong end of the barrel of a gun.
Wonder how the leaders will all react to this. There are pitfalls a-plenty now, for all of them...
CMD and Milliband get there own seperate debate, so not diluted at all.Farage's problem, I suspect, will be living up to the expectation. I've seen it said a few times that he will wipe the floor with the rest of them. He runs the risk of disappointing by failing to deliver to that standard.
Miliband should be made to squirm by possible allegiances with Sturgeon and the watermelons, which (I hope) will shock many into realising that the drak circle they've been looking at is, in fact, the wrong end of the barrel of a gun.
Wonder how the leaders will all react to this. There are pitfalls a-plenty now, for all of them...
The 7-way debate will show the minor parties as a bunch of squabbling nutters whilst the Con/Lab will be more akin to the US presidential one, only with Wallace v. someone with half a brain.
JustAnotherLogin said:
Esseesse said:
JustAnotherLogin said:
Increasingly however it looks like 2 parties will not be enough. Which more than doubles the complexity
Con/Lab coalition (in the national interest)?But however you try, it is difficult to think up a coalition that is likely to have enough seats and would not immediately break apart under its own internal disagreements. Closest I can get is Labour + SNP+ LibDems + Plaid, with maybe some NI parties thrown in for good measure.
Stable? Doesn't look it.
Which suggests either a Tory-Lab coalition or another election this year.
I just can't see Tories and Labour agreeing enough - in particular on benefits, taxation and the economy. Nor can I see Cameron and Balls in the same cabinet
As someone said when I posted the odds of another election this year (6/1) at the time IIRC)- "they look good odds". I see they have already dropped to 9/2.
If there was a re-run, do we think it would most favour one of the big two - or lead to an even heavier swing to UKIP or Greens? Presumably there are no recent (20th century) precendents for this?
steveT350C said:
Fail.
You cannot read my mind, or look at the big picture, which is in fact quite small....
The original debates were: (1) Cameron v Miliband; (2) Cameron v Miliband v Clegg; (3) Cameron v Miliband v Clegg v Farage. You cannot read my mind, or look at the big picture, which is in fact quite small....
There has always been a Cameron v Miliband debate planned. Then and now. You can't possibly have been claiming that they "escape Farage" because of that element of the new arrangement.
Equally, you can only have been making the point that they "escape Farage" under the new arrangement because Farage will become part of a crowd of bit-part players, and won't have the platform to attack Cameron and Miliband all to himself.
HTH with the reading your mind side of things.
Greg66 said:
steveT350C said:
Fail.
You cannot read my mind, or look at the big picture, which is in fact quite small....
The original debates were: (1) Cameron v Miliband; (2) Cameron v Miliband v Clegg; (3) Cameron v Miliband v Clegg v Farage. You cannot read my mind, or look at the big picture, which is in fact quite small....
There has always been a Cameron v Miliband debate planned. Then and now. You can't possibly have been claiming that they "escape Farage" because of that element of the new arrangement.
Equally, you can only have been making the point that they "escape Farage" under the new arrangement because Farage will become part of a crowd of bit-part players, and won't have the platform to attack Cameron and Miliband all to himself.
HTH with the reading your mind side of things.
steveT350C said:
The fact stands that Farage's voice, as leader of the majority Party that represents the UK in the EU, will be diluted to a near pointless level.
On that, we agree. It's f
king beautiful. It could only be made better if the DUP get to join in too (and given they have more seats than PC, the Greens, UKIP and the SNP, I wouldn't bet against them).
Then take out Cameron and Miliband and give them another debate alone, before the dwarves' parade, and you've got the debate format I proposed a while ago.
I'm wasted in my job. Really wasted.
steveT350C said:
The fact stands that Farage's voice, as leader of the majority Party that represents the UK in the EU, will be diluted to a near pointless level.
As are the Libdems who have far more MPs in Westminster (which is what this debate is about) and are in govtAnd the Greens who are party who seem to be doing best (in terms of movement) in the polls at present
Each of the minors can pick their own criteria and judge they have a better case. The others are no more biased than you
JustAnotherLogin said:
steveT350C said:
The fact stands that Farage's voice, as leader of the majority Party that represents the UK in the EU, will be diluted to a near pointless level.
As are the Libdems who have far more MPs in Westminster (which is what this debate is about) and are in govtAnd the Greens who are party who seem to be doing best (in terms of movement) in the polls at present
Each of the minors can pick their own criteria and judge they have a better case. The others are no more biased than you
0a said:
Ofcom's guidance is what should be used here. We can debate forever about it, but they have had to decided independently based on lots of factors to ensure fair TV coverage.
But what you keep conveniently forgetting is that their current list of major parties does not include UKIP either. All that has happened is that they have issued a consultation paper that suggests UKIP have demonstrated sufficient evidence to be included. That may change or the greens may be included. But for decisions now the broadasters should follow the existing list. The actual official list will not change until after the consultation period which ends on 5th Feb
steveT350C said:
The fact stands that Farage's voice, as leader of the majority Party that represents the UK in the EU, will be diluted to a near pointless level.
Not to mention that the broadcasters don't give a toss about whats democratic so it is all very surprising indeed. Their primary concern is to maximise audience figures- Farage would get people tuning in a lot more than Clegg Or Miliband so its more to do with not upsetting Cameron who could be PM again and seek vengeance if an empty chair is left.
JustAnotherLogin said:
But what you keep conveniently forgetting is that their current list of major parties does not include UKIP either. All that has happened is that they have issued a consultation paper that suggests UKIP have demonstrated sufficient evidence to be included. That may change or the greens may be included. But for decisions now the broadasters should follow the existing list.
The actual official list will not change until after the consultation period which ends on 5th Feb
Which is the only thing they can or should go on. The actual official list will not change until after the consultation period which ends on 5th Feb
Scuffers said:
Zod said:
The broadcasters are being provocative here. There is no justification for including nationalist or separatist parties in debates about the government of the whole of the UK.
Blimey, must be the first post from you i actually agree with!0a said:
JustAnotherLogin said:
But what you keep conveniently forgetting is that their current list of major parties does not include UKIP either. All that has happened is that they have issued a consultation paper that suggests UKIP have demonstrated sufficient evidence to be included. That may change or the greens may be included. But for decisions now the broadasters should follow the existing list.
The actual official list will not change until after the consultation period which ends on 5th Feb
Which is the only thing they can or should go on. The actual official list will not change until after the consultation period which ends on 5th Feb
Axionknight said:
Zod said:
The broadcasters are being provocative here. There is no justification for including nationalist or separatist parties in debates about the government of the whole of the UK.
What if those parties were to gain truly mainstream support at one point in the future?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff