The great street light switch off

[Moonhawk]

VeeDubBigBird said:

It's another idea pushed forward to help reduce power consumption and cost cutting, fine on paper but stupid in any practical sense.

Street lights help reduce crime, personal injury, and road accidents. These idiots think switching them off or dimming them at night ( the only time when they have a use) is smart.

Why not switch off their office lights at night (i worked in a 6 storey building and 4 floors always lit by the council) or cut the constant waste of resources with their overly complicated admin process.

It's hardly a new idea - astronomers have been campaigning for fewer streetlights - or at the very least - more efficient designs which direct light downwards, rather than to the side or up.

I'm not convinced on the crime argument, there have been studies that show a reduction when street lights are turned off (criminals have to be able to see what they are doing and using a torch in an unlit area will certainly attract attention). Also is there any evidence that unlit roads are less accident prone than similar lit roads?

Edited by Moonhawk on Monday 22 December 18:46

[colonel c]

Every night I walk the dog last thing before going to bed. My village ha no street lights. I take a little torch but after a few minutes my eyes magically adjust and I can see enough detail to walk around safely. I'm sure this physiological quirk is not unique to me. The only use for the torch is when I need to pick up the dog poo.

[petrolsniffer]

droopsnoot said:

I was expecting something like that. Yes, I have a torch, but I'm going to the pub, not trekking the Amazon. I don't want to have to carry stuff like that. I still don't see how turning out lights on an area with pedestrian access in preference to those with no pedestrian access is the correct decision. I even suggested they turn out every second light on the adjacent road, on that stretch alone it would have saved more of whatever they're trying to save (unless it's opportunities to wind me up) and both would be lit.

Every mobile phone thats come out within the last say 5 or 6 years comes with a function to use the camera flash as a torch quite bright too useful for looking under bonnets in darkness I've found!

Turn them all off I say apart from very inner city/town areas.

[mondeoman]

Progress is great isn't it? We live in a world where putting a man on the moo is old news, we can split the atom and control it, we've mapped the human genome, but ask a council (or government) to provide lighting and it's "oh no, can't afford that sir!" Makes me fuucking angry!

[anonymous-user]

E

SkinnyP said:

Where I live the council has already turned off the motorway lighting, but has kept street lights on by fitting new LEDs.

Where would that be or is it just bullst ?

[Tunku]

Street lights were always off during the small hours, it is only fairly recently that various agencies demanded they be left on to prevent assaults etc. Councils jumped on this as a major breakthrough for crime prevention until they started getting the bills in. The astronomical lot (star gazers) despaired at the pollution.
Councils stared switching them off again. My council is now installing low cost LED lights which will annoy the star gazers again. They also now annoy me because it is more difficult to detect car headlights coming from an angle, eg. a side road.

[droopsnoot]

petrolsniffer said:

Every mobile phone thats come out within the last say 5 or 6 years comes with a function to use the camera flash as a torch quite bright too useful for looking under bonnets in darkness I've found!

True, but

droopsnoot said:

I don't carry a phone, though mine is so ancient I doubt the light from it would be much use. Keep in mind, I only take a coat with me if it looks like it's going to rain, I don't like to be weighed down with "stuff".

I don't have a problem with lights being turned out, just that there doesn't seem to be much sense being applied when selecting which lights to turn out. There's also no warning about which are selected, which might have allowed me to contribute to that process as I could for example in a planning application that a normal person might have to submit when they want to make a change that might affect others.

[eccles]

youngsyr said:

Has anyone actually looked at the sums though?

My local council turns the lights off at midnight, not sure what time they come on - before 7am though.

However, I've heard that it cost over a million quid to fit the equipment required to turn the lights off on a timer and the annual saving in electricity bills is 1/10th of that!

Some background reading:

http://www.newscenter.philips.com/gb_en/standard/n...

Edited by youngsyr on Monday 22 December 11:55

I can't remember the figures, but the next market town to us fitted remote sensors to the lights so they could be switched off at midnight and back on at six in the morning and they quoted 9 years as the break even point for parts and labour.

The town I'm in has done the same, and they've fitted LED lights to some of the main roads that remain lit at night.
There was a little bit of fuss in the local paper from the usual suspects when it was introduced but now everyone is used to it. It also hasn't had the predicted increase in crime either.

[eccles]

droopsnoot said:

madbadger said:

Personally I can manage where there isn't street lighting, and I am happy that the council save a few quid.

I've got used to it, it's just a poor decision IMO. Other stretches of the journey are in darkness too, but are just straight bits of pavement without the hazards of this one. I don't carry a phone, though mine is so ancient I doubt the light from it would be much use. Keep in mind, I only take a coat with me if it looks like it's going to rain, I don't like to be weighed down with "stuff".

You do come across a little like you're looking for excuses to be offended. Ok, so you're one of the few people who don't carry a phone, but any supermarket can sell you a modern, small, LED torch for just a few quid that will easily fit in your pocket and not be in the way.

[SkinnyP]

speedyguy said:

Where would that be or is it just bullst ?

Go on then, tell me why it might be bullst?

Do you really think people come on a forum to lie about street lighting?

[Moonhawk]

Tunku said:

My council is now installing low cost LED lights which will annoy the star gazers again. They also now annoy me because it is more difficult to detect car headlights coming from an angle, eg. a side road.

They have just done that in the next village to ours. They are extremely bright white and dazzle when driving late at night - far more than the lights they replaced. I think they could be half as bright as they are and still provide adequate lighting.

From an astronomy point of view they are a mixed blessing. They are generally housed so that the majority of the light is directed down (so called "full cutoff") - which is a good thing since less light will be directed into the sky thereby cutting down on light pollution......however what light pollution does remain is a big problem since the light from white LEDs cannot be filtered out unlike the yellow sodium lights of old.

[anonymous-user]

SkinnyP said:

Where I live the council has already turned off the motorway lighting, but has kept street lights on by fitting new LEDs.

SkinnyP said:

speedyguy said:

Where would that be or is it just bullst ?

Go on then, tell me why it might be bullst?

Do you really think people come on a forum to lie about street lighting?

No, maybe i should have phrased it better.

Councils only own a tiny bit of motorway lighting in small rare pockets.

That's why i asked, The HA own nearly all motorway lighting and i wouldn't want you to let facts get in the way of a "Daily Wail" style rant

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2235560/Th...

Search "dft foi F0009362"
http://www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge/projects/redu...

[eccles]

Moonhawk said:

Tunku said:

My council is now installing low cost LED lights which will annoy the star gazers again. They also now annoy me because it is more difficult to detect car headlights coming from an angle, eg. a side road.

They have just done that in the next village to ours. They are extremely bright white and dazzle when driving late at night - far more than the lights they replaced. I think they could be half as bright as they are and still provide adequate lighting.

From an astronomy point of view they are a mixed blessing. They are generally housed so that the majority of the light is directed down (so called "full cutoff") - which is a good thing since less light will be directed into the sky thereby cutting down on light pollution......however what light pollution does remain is a big problem since the light from white LEDs cannot be filtered out unlike the yellow sodium lights of old.

In my home village back in Wales they've gone for LED street lights, they're not too bright and don't dazzle you or anything but the puddle of light is quite small and focused. Now when you look down the street, the houses aren't lit up like they were (so no need for thick curtains), but there are dark spots between the lights, i.e., the puddles of light aren't big enough to join up the lights like they used to.

[SkinnyP]

speedyguy said:

SkinnyP said:

Where I live the council has already turned off the motorway lighting, but has kept street lights on by fitting new LEDs.

SkinnyP said:

speedyguy said:

Where would that be or is it just bullst ?

Go on then, tell me why it might be bullst?

Do you really think people come on a forum to lie about street lighting?

No, maybe i should have phrased it better.

Councils only own a tiny bit of motorway lighting in small rare pockets.

That's why i asked, The HA own nearly all motorway lighting and i wouldn't want you to let facts get in the way of a "Daily Wail" style rant

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2235560/Th...

Search "dft foi F0009362"
http://www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge/projects/redu...

So if you already know how it works then why are you commenting that it might be bullst?

The council did turn off the motorway lights where I live, what more is there to say.

[Westy Pre-Lit]

The lights round our way are turned off or on by means of an adjusting timer switch...I'll say that again ....they are turned OFF or ON by means of an adjusting TIMER SWITCH......located within the lamp pole.

Just saying

[Glade]

I work in a factory that manufactures the kit that retrofits street lights with LEDs, and other bits that network them.

There is plenty of stuff that can be done, e.g. dim (not switch off) the lights at certain times, and on the motorway, if there were an accident, whack them back up to full brightness etc...

Lumen output per watt is much better than sodium lamps, you can choose colour temperature and lens designs to create anything you like really...

Saves money for councils, creates jobs, saves energy - why not?

I am quite biased though

ETA: in terms of ROI they expect a 25 year life span, dunno low long they depreciate the investment over, but combined with the energy saving I think it's a no-brainer.

Edited by Glade on Tuesday 23 December 19:18

[RYH64E]

Adrian W said:

After all who gives a st about people (especially old people) who are now terrified to go out at night because it is to dark to walk the streets where they live.

We've got some street lights in our village but not many, it's not that they've been switched off, we've never had any. As an ex-Londoner it took me by surprised when we first moved to the sticks, I remember taking our then small children to a fireworks display, it was dusk when we left but completely pitch black when we walked home, there wasn't even enough light to see where the road finished and the hedge/ditch began. Since then we take torches if we go out at night, as do our various neighbours, and life goes on quite smoothly, even the old folk manage.

If nothing else it's a good excuse to expand my ever increasing collection of LED torches, I've got everything from retina burning, search light bright to handy pocket sized convenience. A torch for every occasion, and spares.

[Magog]

Isn't electricity cheap as chips at night as it's mostly run of the baseload capacity, nuclear, wind and hydro... in reality for Uk plc it probably costs more on balance to spool the coal and gas turbines up and down... So streetlights should cost little in monetary terms as well as CO2. My guess is the accounts are fudged somehow so that the electricity savings are averaged across a days consumption by generating source, not by the actual generating source at the time of operation.

The turning off of street lights strike me as coming being born out of a similar mindset to one of my relatives, who bought a poverty spec luxury car, and then did most of his driving in the wife's hatchback in order to save putting miles on it...

[Agrispeed]

We have lots of people from big urban areas stay with us, there are no lights here - the nearest are a glow on the horizon. It's dark, really dark. When there's no moon it's pitch black.

Usually the first comment is something like 'I didn't realise it went dark like this at night!' Surprisingly how many of these people are also scared of the dark

No ones got hurt, (no burglaries, but then there's not many places to nick stuff from!) and when you go to the pub at night those that walk carry a torch. Simple.

It's so much easier to go to sleep when it's actually dark! The amount of stars you can see compared to urban areas is quite amazing too.

[three five five]

Streetlighting design engineer here.

LED schemes can pay back in a matter of a few years when you take into account the running cost and lack of need to replace a lamp every three years. Its being done on our estate as we speak. Switching off lighting is done more so to satisfy CO 2 reduction promises for political gain.

Shutting off lighting increases crime.

The council I work for has switched off some motorway lighting but mainly as cost of renewing associated barriers and providing passively safe equip is killing the budget so the price of the electric is only part of it.

hope that clarifies