The great street light switch off
Discussion
Otispunkmeyer said:
Do you have any data on replacement of LED lights? In theory they should last a long time, but I've seen LED lamps go bad in very short time. I presume they are then more expensive than the older sodium lamps to replace?
Up to 80000 hours depending on quality and wattageThat means that there's virtually no maintenance other than the odd wipe down with a cloth. AT £70 or more to send an engineer to change a lamp every two years the extra cost soon gets recovered.
An good quality LED version of a lantern is usually about £200/250 more than its SON equivalent so its no difficult to justify.
three five five said:
Up to 80000 hours depending on quality and wattage
That means that there's virtually no maintenance other than the odd wipe down with a cloth. AT £70 or more to send an engineer to change a lamp every two years the extra cost soon gets recovered.
An good quality LED version of a lantern is usually about £200/250 more than its SON equivalent so its no difficult to justify.
Good to know!That means that there's virtually no maintenance other than the odd wipe down with a cloth. AT £70 or more to send an engineer to change a lamp every two years the extra cost soon gets recovered.
An good quality LED version of a lantern is usually about £200/250 more than its SON equivalent so its no difficult to justify.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Do you have any data on replacement of LED lights? In theory they should last a long time, but I've seen LED lamps go bad in very short time. I presume they are then more expensive than the older sodium lamps to replace?
Yep this.Whilst LEDs themselves are rated for tens of thousands of hours - it's often the driver circuits that end up going. I doubt led lighting will be as reliable or as "maintenance free" as touted (I have just learnt that to my cost when the LED side lights on my car went after only 16,000 miles - and probably only a couple of hundred hours of use)
skyrover said:
The increase in crime will be the real problem with this idea.
Not necessarily - the data from studies that have been conducted is mixed.http://www.celfosc.org/biblio/seguridad/atkins.pdf
"The principal conclusion is that no evidence could be found to support the hypothesis that improved street lighting reduces reported crime. Although some areas and some crime types did show reductions in night-time crime relative to the day-light control, the dominant overall pattern, from which this study draws its authority, was of no significant change"
It appears that streetlights may affect the perception of safety/crime more than actual levels of crime.
Edited by Moonhawk on Wednesday 24th December 18:49
eccles said:
You do come across a little like you're looking for excuses to be offended. Ok, so you're one of the few people who don't carry a phone, but any supermarket can sell you a modern, small, LED torch for just a few quid that will easily fit in your pocket and not be in the way.
Maybe. I won't get into it again, but I was really just highlighting the poor selection process as much as the inconvenience to myself. Magog said:
Isn't electricity cheap as chips at night as it's mostly run of the baseload capacity, nuclear, wind and hydro... in reality for Uk plc it probably costs more on balance to spool the coal and gas turbines up and down... So streetlights should cost little in monetary terms as well as CO2.
My understanding is that the powerstations would be dumping the heat at night if the energy wasn't used to power electric lights so there is no CO2 gainjustanother5tar said:
I wouldn't walk around in the dark at all, let alone with £500+ worth of phone out in my hand.
Utterly stupid turning off streetlights, I'm more likely to drive around the corner to the shop now, as apposed to walking, I just don't feel safe tbh.
Oh dear Utterly stupid turning off streetlights, I'm more likely to drive around the corner to the shop now, as apposed to walking, I just don't feel safe tbh.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_of_crime
Are you a H&S advisor ??
speedyguy said:
Interesting article. I feel that the perception of crime is for many people far beyond the reality. With global media bombarding us with "bad news" day in day out, is it any wonder. We even have crime events that happen on the other side of the globe making headline news in the UK.Moonhawk said:
speedyguy said:
Interesting article. I feel that the perception of crime is for many people far beyond the reality. With global media bombarding us with "bad news" day in day out, is it any wonder. We even have crime events that happen on the other side of the globe making headline news in the UK.the stats tell us that hte person most likely to be bopped over the head and robbed in the evening is a young male, but it;s younger women and the elderly who often state their are the most afraid ...
speedyguy said:
Nope.None of the scum round here give a f
k what they do, cause they never get more than a few hours community service or a tiny fine. Why would I feel safe walking around with little to no lighting?
Moonhawk said:
skyrover said:
The increase in crime will be the real problem with this idea.
Not necessarily - the data from studies that have been conducted is mixed.http://www.celfosc.org/biblio/seguridad/atkins.pdf
"The principal conclusion is that no evidence could be found to support the hypothesis that improved street lighting reduces reported crime. Although some areas and some crime types did show reductions in night-time crime relative to the day-light control, the dominant overall pattern, from which this study draws its authority, was of no significant change"
It appears that streetlights may affect the perception of safety/crime more than actual levels of crime.
His basic admission was dark streets made his job a lot harder.
Perhaps it's time to take a leaf out of the American playbook and fit all patrol car's with swivelling spotlights?
skyrover said:
My opinion is a little biased after discussing the matter with a serving police officer.
His basic admission was dark streets made his job a lot harder.
I would have thought lenient slap on the wrist courts have made his job harder as he probably spends most of his time looking for repeat offenders.His basic admission was dark streets made his job a lot harder.
Not one for littlejohn or the Mail but as with everything else it's about priorities and resources
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2885806/...
Moonhawk said:
Yep this.
Whilst LEDs themselves are rated for tens of thousands of hours - it's often the driver circuits that end up going. I doubt led lighting will be as reliable or as "maintenance free" as touted (I have just learnt that to my cost when the LED side lights on my car went after only 16,000 miles - and probably only a couple of hundred hours of use)
I guess a moving car with lots of vibrations would be a lot more of a hostile environment to an LED than a streetlight though?Whilst LEDs themselves are rated for tens of thousands of hours - it's often the driver circuits that end up going. I doubt led lighting will be as reliable or as "maintenance free" as touted (I have just learnt that to my cost when the LED side lights on my car went after only 16,000 miles - and probably only a couple of hundred hours of use)
VeeDubBigBird said:
It's another idea pushed forward to help reduce power consumption and cost cutting, fine on paper but stupid in any practical sense.
Street lights help reduce crime, personal injury, and road accidents. These idiots think switching them off or dimming them at night ( the only time when they have a use) is smart.
Why not switch off their office lights at night (i worked in a 6 storey building and 4 floors always lit by the council) or cut the constant waste of resources with their overly complicated admin process.
Can you pop up the link to the studies supporting that - interested in seeing the correlation and the cost benefit to society of the reduced crime, injury and RTAs.Street lights help reduce crime, personal injury, and road accidents. These idiots think switching them off or dimming them at night ( the only time when they have a use) is smart.
Why not switch off their office lights at night (i worked in a 6 storey building and 4 floors always lit by the council) or cut the constant waste of resources with their overly complicated admin process.
johnfm said:
VeeDubBigBird said:
It's another idea pushed forward to help reduce power consumption and cost cutting, fine on paper but stupid in any practical sense.
Street lights help reduce crime, personal injury, and road accidents. These idiots think switching them off or dimming them at night ( the only time when they have a use) is smart.
Why not switch off their office lights at night (i worked in a 6 storey building and 4 floors always lit by the council) or cut the constant waste of resources with their overly complicated admin process.
Can you pop up the link to the studies supporting that - interested in seeing the correlation and the cost benefit to society of the reduced crime, injury and RTAs.Street lights help reduce crime, personal injury, and road accidents. These idiots think switching them off or dimming them at night ( the only time when they have a use) is smart.
Why not switch off their office lights at night (i worked in a 6 storey building and 4 floors always lit by the council) or cut the constant waste of resources with their overly complicated admin process.
In the news last week http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-31143466
skyrover said:
An interesting statement in the conclusions though:"....and that nighttime crimes do not decrease more than daytime crimes."
If i'm reading that right - it seems to be suggesting that improved street lighting decreased crime both during the day as well as at night - but that the decrease at night was no more than the decrease in the day.
This sounds a little odd to me. Why would improving street lighting lead to a decrease in crime rates during the day and surely if the street lights were having the effect on crime that is being suggested - the largest change would be observed when they were actually active.
There is one possibility. Street lighting is often improved as part of the overall regeneration of an area. Could it be that decreased crime is actually driven by this regeneration, rather than by the presence of improved street lighting?
Study suggests that reduced street lighting has no effect on crime or accidents.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33692675
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33692675
Blib said:
Study suggests that reduced street lighting has no effect on crime or accidents.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33692675
I am going to suggest that the study has been "adjusted". I used to live in an area where there were frequent attacks in the darkened areas yet where the alleys were lit, very few incidents.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33692675
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