Bin Lorry crashes in Glasgow

[MrBarry123]

I'm late to this whole discussion however...

I do feel massively for the driver here. He clearly lied to protect his livelihood and he's now been hounded by the families of those unfortunate to die, being made out to be some crazed lunatic of a driver who was intent on murder.

Yes, I also feel sorry for those who died however will prosecuting this bloke really make amends?

It's an horrific accident however it's exactly that, an accident.

[TheSnitch]

r11co said:

TheSnitch said:

I have followed the FAI from the start, and I completely disagree. It has undoubtedly uncovered the facts; the inquiry had heard already from numerous doctors, seen health declarations the driver made and what he stated on application forms.

The QC should not have been drawing conclusions from the facts already established in an atempt to get a witness (I repeat a witness, not 'the accused') to agree or disagree with her conclusions and elicit a response. What reason does she have to do that (except to open the door to a prosecution that, succesful or not, she stands to make a shedload from)?

The purpose of the Inquiry is to establish if any processes can be put in place to avoid a repeat. The culpability of anyone involved is an entirely separate issue.

The conclusion that better checks and greater responsibilities may be required can be drawn already from what is known.

Edited by r11co on Friday 21st August 14:05

Well it was up to his counsel or the Sheriff conducting the inquiry to object, then. It's not as if he wasn't represented. As far as her attempting to open the door to a prosecution I think that is nonsense, expecially considering the background to these events.
I don't disagree with you entirely - I think it would have been better all round if he hadn't taken the stand, considering he couldn't answer most of the questions. It was a pointless process.

The main issue here is that the Inquiry really couldn't fulfil it's purpose because the culpability of the driver and the decision not to prosecute became ''the story''. That has given rise to the prospect of a private prosecution, and hence he couldn't answer most of the questions.

[TheSnitch]

MrBarry123 said:

I'm late to this whole discussion however...

I do feel massively for the driver here. He clearly lied to protect his livelihood and he's now been hounded by the families of those unfortunate to die, being made out to be some crazed lunatic of a driver who was intent on murder.

Yes, I also feel sorry for those who died however will prosecuting this bloke really make amends?

It's an horrific accident however it's exactly that, an accident.

Where and how has he been hounded by them?

[kev1974]

MrBarry123 said:

I'm late to this whole discussion however...

I do feel massively for the driver here. He clearly lied to protect his livelihood and he's now been hounded by the families of those unfortunate to die, being made out to be some crazed lunatic of a driver who was intent on murder.

Yes, I also feel sorry for those who died however will prosecuting this bloke really make amends?

It's an horrific accident however it's exactly that, an accident.

Prosecuting also serves to remind others in the same position why there are medicals and why he should have declared his health issues. If we just say "ah well never mind", are we not just saying to everyone else that wants to, to just go ahead and drive big trucks in crowded spaces, whether they are fit enough to or not.

[TheSnitch]

kev1974 said:

MrBarry123 said:

I'm late to this whole discussion however...

I do feel massively for the driver here. He clearly lied to protect his livelihood and he's now been hounded by the families of those unfortunate to die, being made out to be some crazed lunatic of a driver who was intent on murder.

Yes, I also feel sorry for those who died however will prosecuting this bloke really make amends?

It's an horrific accident however it's exactly that, an accident.

Prosecuting also serves to remind others in the same position why there are medicals and why he should have declared his health issues. If we just say "ah well never mind", are we not just saying to everyone else that wants to, to just go ahead and drive big trucks in crowded spaces, whether they are fit enough to or not.

This

[kev1974]

saaby93 said:

hidetheelephants said:

The only practical way to improve the odds of preventing a repetition is by changing to a system of regular medicals and approved medical examiners with access to medical records, not unlike seafarers or aircrew medicals. None of which will happen because civil liberty types will wail about privacy and the transport industry will wail(and lobby heavily) about the cost of employing drivers.

or to have public service vehicles fitted with the equivalent of dead mans handle
or to make available something in the cab so any of the other three can press stop if they see something untoward

At the start of the inquiry they reviewed whether persons in other seats of the cab would have been able to reach the handbrake, and in the main they concluded they could, despite safety bars that were in there, although some people might have been too fat or short to make it easy.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/24/gla...

However for whatever reason, none of them did, all happened too quickly maybe.

Trouble with some kind of stop button / dead mans handle, is that it might cause more problems than it solves if accidentally triggered/knocked and a chunky vehicle suddenly stops in the road in front of other vehicles. Also this just happened to be a bin lorry with multiple people in the cab, it could easily have been the same lorry but no other people in the cab, or some other single-man-operated lorry/coach anyway. So the onus has to be on the driver himself being, to the best of anyone's knowledge, known to be safe to drive.

[Welshbeef]

MrBarry123 said:

I'm late to this whole discussion however...

I do feel massively for the driver here. He clearly lied to protect his livelihood and he's now been hounded by the families of those unfortunate to die, being made out to be some crazed lunatic of a driver who was intent on murder.

Yes, I also feel sorry for those who died however will prosecuting this bloke really make amends?

It's an horrific accident however it's exactly that, an accident.

Cut to the chase

Driver lies to his employer about known medical issues which could seriously hamper safe delivery of his work.
Tragically said illness has resulted in death of many and wiped out 3 generations of 1 family.
Chap who told a few assumed low risk porkies to keep his job / quality of life is refusing to answer any question the bereaved families need to hear.
Causing stress to said families to try to save own skin.

The clear point is it was an utterly avoidable accident and it's all down to him telling huge porkie pies - I'm surprised that said individual is not doing what 99.99999% of people would do and come clean and face the consequences. Imagine if it was his grand daughter would he go oh you know what I agree you didn't want to lose your job due to ill health and my granddaughters death at your hands is neither here or there.



He is and has dug himself a deep hole --- utterly shameful / disposable. Sure an "accident" but my God your so far from the mark of basic common decency it's beyond belief.

[TheSnitch]

MrBarry123 said:

I'm late to this whole discussion however...

I do feel massively for the driver here. He clearly lied to protect his livelihood and he's now been hounded by the families of those unfortunate to die, being made out to be some crazed lunatic of a driver who was intent on murder.

Yes, I also feel sorry for those who died however will prosecuting this bloke really make amends?

It's an horrific accident however it's exactly that, an accident.

If he had epilepsy and was suffering seizures, yet continued to drive, would you regard it as ''an accident''? How about if he was losing his sight?

No-one is suggesting this man went out with any malice or intent to cause the devastation he has undoubtedly caused, but no-one has a god given right to a driving licence, especially to drive heavy vehicles, for the very reason that they can kill and maim.

It's not his fault he developed this illness, but he had a responsibility to report it truthfully. In lying to protect his livelihood he has deprived other families of something more important. One woman lost both her parents and her daughter, for god's sake. That's what his determination to carry on driving has cost her.

[TheJimi]

TheSnitch said:

MrBarry123 said:

I'm late to this whole discussion however...

I do feel massively for the driver here. He clearly lied to protect his livelihood and he's now been hounded by the families of those unfortunate to die, being made out to be some crazed lunatic of a driver who was intent on murder.

Yes, I also feel sorry for those who died however will prosecuting this bloke really make amends?

It's an horrific accident however it's exactly that, an accident.

Where and how has he been hounded by them?

Maybe not the families, but the Scottish press have been relentless in their hounding of him on the front pages.

fking disgraceful actually.

[dudleybloke]

TheJimi said:

Maybe not the families, but the Scottish press have been relentless in their hounding of him on the front pages.

fking disgraceful actually.

Well if he obeyed the law they wouldn't be tearing him a new one.

[andy_s]

TheJimi said:

Maybe not the families, but the Scottish press have been relentless in their hounding of him on the front pages.

fking disgraceful actually.

Hound away, guy made his bed and made six people sleep in it, no sympathy.

[Davel]

I'm surprised that he can live with himself to be honest.

He may well never have intended to hurt anyone but, as soon as he realised that he wasn't safe to drive, he should have come clean.

No sympathy for him but plenty for the victims and their families.

[saaby93]

Davel said:

I'm surprised that he can live with himself to be honest.

and thats the worry
we dont want another one to add to the tally
This is supposed to be about what can be learned about systems etc that led up to it , not a witch hunt

[hidetheelephants]

Davel said:

I'm surprised that he can live with himself to be honest.

He may well never have intended to hurt anyone but, as soon as he realised that he wasn't safe to drive, he should have come clean.

No sympathy for him but plenty for the victims and their families.

There's evidence he didn't have much difficulty living with himself; it appears he had made enquiries after he got out of hospital about getting his licence back. Getting his licence back?

I suppose you could lock him up but that wouldn't do anyone any good, so I'd be satisfied with a lifetime driving ban and some community service.

[Digger]

saaby93 said:

Davel said:

I'm surprised that he can live with himself to be honest.

and thats the worry
we dont want another one to add to the tally
This is supposed to be about what can be learned about systems etc that led up to it , not a witch hunt

I've just read via the BBC article, that he tried to re-obtain his license. . . . after the event itself.

That's not normal, surely!

[Welshbeef]

Digger said:

I've just read via the BBC article, that he tried to re-obtain his license. . . . after the event itself.

That's not normal, surely!

What a nasty individual he is trying to cover his arse

[TheSnitch]

Digger said:

saaby93 said:

Davel said:

I'm surprised that he can live with himself to be honest.

and thats the worry
we dont want another one to add to the tally
This is supposed to be about what can be learned about systems etc that led up to it , not a witch hunt

I've just read via the BBC article, that he tried to re-obtain his license. . . . after the event itself.

That's not normal, surely!

And he was given it back, having failed to tell the DVLA - again - what was wrong with him.

Now the DVLA know it has of course been suspended again, for 10 years this time. But this guy had his licence back in April, faced no prosecution, and technically could have been back on the road driving trucks months ago.

I find that fking scary

Edited by TheSnitch on Friday 21st August 15:42

[Digger]

Welshbeef said:

Digger said:

I've just read via the BBC article, that he tried to re-obtain his license. . . . after the event itself.

That's not normal, surely!

What a nasty individual he is trying to cover his arse

Is this what's known as, and I tentatively refer to the term. . . . Irony?


we know you're not nasty Welshy

[Davel]

saaby93 said:

nd thats the worry
we dont want another one to add to the tally
This is supposed to be about what can be learned about systems etc that led up to it , not a witch hunt

I'm not saying that he should kill or have killed himself - I'm saying that I would find it very difficult to live with the guilt.

There is a difference

[RobinOakapple]

One of the defining characteristics of stupidity is difficulty in predicting the likely future consequences of present actions. The guy is guilty mainly of being thick. He's probably a sociopath as well, but mostly he's thick.