Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 3

[turbobloke]

How did that get there

Must be due to global warming

[steveT350C]

a new message is more important than the name of the messenger...

https://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2016/09/25/ned-nik...

[turbobloke]

steveT350C said:

a new message is more important than the name of the messenger...

https://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2016/09/25/ned-nik...

Many thanks for the link and update on how anonymity was used to secure publication for valid innovative work where previously journals and editors had refused even to consider papers received which carried the names of the authors. Scandalously these refusals were not based on any basic flaw in the submitted work. Mere prejudice based on howls from The Team was enough to silence the authors in the mainstream literature for quite sone time.

For those interested, this is from December 2012, on a PH climate thread, where I refer to the poster paper from these authors which is mentioned on Tallbloke's blog. Scroll down to my post on Friday 21 December 2012. It begins "For those interested..."

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Anyone wanting more scientific and mathematical detail on the 'new' work and the 'old' poster paper can find it here on WUWT.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/12/29/unified-the...

[steveT350C]

Thanks TB,


One wonders how many other inconvenient papers never get a proper airing.

[Mr GrimNasty]

When your intuition tells you something smells like a rat, 97%(pffffft) of the time you are proven right in the long run.

Wiggins needing medical-exemption steroids just before a big race.

Temperatures from the past need cooling for 'accuracy'.

Karl et al pause-buster paper magicked out of a hat just in time for COP21.

etc. etc.


It must be pure coincidence that CAGW 'science' seems to contain so many filthy fetid super-size rats!

[LongQ]

According to the Guardian the Dutch parliament has voted to close all of its coal fired power stations as soon as possible in order to achieve the Paris COP15 targets.

They have 5 coal plants, 3 of which become operational as recently as 2015.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/2...

"The Dutch Liberal MP and vice president of the parliament, Stientje van Veldhoven, told the Guardian: “Closing down big coal plants – even if they were recently opened – is by far the most cost effective way to achieve the goals of the Paris agreement, and all countries will need to take such far-reaching measures. We cannot continue to use coal as the cheapest source of energy when it is the most expensive from a climate perspective.”"

Interesting fiscal logic in that.

It's really difficult to know where to begin with his report - assuming the reporting is in fact accurate.

Of course the Dutch, smart traders though some might be, do have previous with respect to fiscal fantasia.

Tulips can be rather attractive flowers, for example, but perhaps are not entirely suitable as the "value" basis for an entire country's economy.

Such are the politics of 21st century climate change.

For those who have not come across the event previously I offer a Wiki link.

Take from it what you will.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

[LongQ]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/worldfamous-c...

This report of a court case in London is probably worth following.

Here we seem to have either a group of individuals seeking investment cash to fund projects to save the planet and not managing to spend it all quickly enough (or in the right way); or

A tax regine that is being retrospectively engineered to cover loopholes that were not foreseen when it was formulated nor through the process during during which the legal definition was refined.

So either we have a bunch of chancers ripping off the tax payer or we have the tax collectors more than happy to rip off tax payers by retrospective changes to the "rules".

Note that either way a (mythical?) tax payer gets ripped off.

[mybrainhurts]

LongQ said:

According to the Guardian the Dutch parliament has voted to close all of its coal fired power stations as soon as possible in order to achieve the Paris COP15 targets.

"You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but not all of the people all of the time...."

This is coming perilously close to being incorrect.

[LongQ]

mybrainhurts said:

LongQ said:

According to the Guardian the Dutch parliament has voted to close all of its coal fired power stations as soon as possible in order to achieve the Paris COP15 targets.

"You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but not all of the people all of the time...."

This is coming perilously close to being incorrect.

One begins to suspect that "governments" have worked out what might be possible with the Internet and mass obfuscation if only they can find a way to force everyone to be connected.

Which of course they can by making it their business to ensure that any and every interaction with government is moved "on-line" as soon as is practically possible. If not sooner.

[turbobloke]

September's climate conference - vids are online.

The quality is reasonable and for those unable to attend (that includes me) they give a good idea of how things went.

http://www.deluxetech.co.uk/climate-change-confere...

[dickymint]

turbobloke said:

September's climate conference - vids are online.

The quality is reasonable and for those unable to attend (that includes me) they give a good idea of how things went.

http://www.deluxetech.co.uk/climate-change-confere...

Felt proud and nearly shed a tear (out and out lie there as i did... nearly.... sort of ) to see my mate and fellow Wedger Tallbloke take the stage

[turbobloke]

dickymint said:

turbobloke said:

September's climate conference - vids are online.

The quality is reasonable and for those unable to attend (that includes me) they give a good idea of how things went.

http://www.deluxetech.co.uk/climate-change-confere...

Felt proud and nearly shed a tear (out and out lie there as i did... nearly.... sort of ) to see my mate and fellow Wedger Tallbloke take the stage

Tallbloke has his Talkshop and has for some time but he's a fellow PHer too with many contributions to climate threads over the years. He and others in academe are out there and in here.

There was also a chance to listen to Ned and Zeller, see post not long ago from SteveT350C.

[dickymint]

turbobloke said:

Tallbloke has his Talkshop and has for some time but he's a fellow PHer too with many contributions to climate threads over the years. He and others in academe are out there and in here.

There was also a chance to listen to Ned and Zeller, see post not long ago from SteveT350C.

Read and followed SteveT's post this morning and also remembered your 'heads up' on Zeller from years ago.

........... personally I (still) blame the Sun

[turbobloke]

dickymint said:

turbobloke said:

Tallbloke has his Talkshop and has for some time but he's a fellow PHer too with many contributions to climate threads over the years. He and others in academe are out there and in here.

There was also a chance to listen to Ned and Zeller, see post not long ago from SteveT350C.

Read and followed SteveT's post this morning and also remembered your 'heads up' on Zeller from years ago.

........... personally I (still) blame the Sun

Roger that

[El Guapo]

LongQ said:

According to the Guardian the Dutch parliament has voted to close all of its coal fired power stations as soon as possible in order to achieve the Paris COP15 targets.

What about the CO2 that'll be produced by all the candles that people will need? I bet nobody has thought about that.

[robinessex]

Hinkley Point contract to be signed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37502547

The government and French energy giant EDF are set to sign the key contract for the new £18bn Hinkley Point C nuclear power station.
EDF boss Jean-Bernard Levy is expected to join high ranking officials from the UK, France and China at the behind-closed-doors ceremony in London.

How long before that becomes a big fkup?

[jet_noise]

robinessex said:

Hinkley Point contract to be signed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37502547

The government and French energy giant EDF are set to sign the key contract for the new £18bn Hinkley Point C nuclear power station.
EDF boss Jean-Bernard Levy is expected to join high ranking officials from the UK, France and China at the behind-closed-doors ceremony in London.

How long before that becomes a big fkup?

It already is

[pgtips]

There has been a massive change in the power sector since the CfD was first awarded to EdF, which makes the contract look really poor value for money now. Massive fall in the cost of renewables (reduce the subsidy and amazing how cost competitive they have become), huge advancement in large scale battery deployment to augment intermittency and balance the system, a period of sustained low gas prices, reductions in demand..... On its own it now looks expensive and a big risk to consumers. I guess the hope is that New nucs 2, 3, 4, etc will be less costly as a result of Hinkley. I'm somewhat skeptical myself. Hopefully we'll see a growth in small scale nucs which can be deployed much more easily.

[Gandahar]

jet_noise said:

robinessex said:

Hinkley Point contract to be signed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37502547

The government and French energy giant EDF are set to sign the key contract for the new £18bn Hinkley Point C nuclear power station.
EDF boss Jean-Bernard Levy is expected to join high ranking officials from the UK, France and China at the behind-closed-doors ceremony in London.

How long before that becomes a big fkup?

It already is

"EDF boss Jean-Bernard Levy joined officials from the UK, France and China at the behind-closed-doors ceremony in London on Thursday."

Behind closed doors.

I'd rather have us leading the way in tidal, wave and wind than this fecking monstrosity that saves on CO2 but then gives French and Chinese lots of money and gives a flat rate far more than needed.

We are being ripped off, and that's if it goes all to plan. Likely there will be delays and cost over runs.

You can see it now, biggest white elephant ever. Why cannot our leaders see it?

[bodhi]

Gandahar said:

"EDF boss Jean-Bernard Levy joined officials from the UK, France and China at the behind-closed-doors ceremony in London on Thursday."

Behind closed doors.

I'd rather have us leading the way in tidal, wave and wind than this fecking monstrosity that saves on CO2 but then gives French and Chinese lots of money and gives a flat rate far more than needed.

We are being ripped off, and that's if it goes all to plan. Likely there will be delays and cost over runs.

You can see it now, biggest white elephant ever. Why cannot our leaders see it?

Hardly the biggest white elephant ever. You just have to drive past one of the many stationary wind turbines to see that.