Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 3
Discussion
gofasterrosssco said:
Again, my point is that subsidies distorts the true cost of energy from different sources.
Yes indeed, government policies distort the free market, no companies would be pursuing wind, solar, etc. unless they were given free money - they aren't economically viable. Any jobs created are at the expense of many more jobs elsewhere. Renewables destroy jobs, cause energy poverty, etc. etc.Coal/oil is economically viable - there is no true subsidy, it is a wealth enhancer for all of society.
Only a twisted green fanatic can claim that carbon fuels are subsidised.
The nuclear deal (and the lagoon scheme) is dreadful for the UK, can't argue with that - but it's only happened because of the renewables/climate scam and the prospect of being able to profiteer out of rocketing energy prices and consequential insecurity of supply.
gofasterrosssco said:
I don't know the breakdown of the subsidy levels for the quoted $550B, I'm just quoting headline global figures from the IMF and IEA - as noted, the societal subsidy infered by the term externalities due to polution and health costs, is put at $5.3Tn. I don't agree with that as its very speculative.
Likewise, there seems to be the assumption that all renewables subsidy is in direct cash handouts, which its not, and you can apply all of the potential benefits in relation to employment, income tax revenue etc. to many of the renewables industries, as you can with any heavily subsidised nuclear project.
Again, my point is that subsidies distorts the true cost of energy from different sources. Renewables is still likely to be more expensive (and play a small overall percentage in the energy mix), but the implicit "cost per MWh" is perhaps not a true reflection of unsubsidised energy production cost (at least, its very clouded).
Respectively.Likewise, there seems to be the assumption that all renewables subsidy is in direct cash handouts, which its not, and you can apply all of the potential benefits in relation to employment, income tax revenue etc. to many of the renewables industries, as you can with any heavily subsidised nuclear project.
Again, my point is that subsidies distorts the true cost of energy from different sources. Renewables is still likely to be more expensive (and play a small overall percentage in the energy mix), but the implicit "cost per MWh" is perhaps not a true reflection of unsubsidised energy production cost (at least, its very clouded).
If you don't know, do a bit of digging there is lots of data out there, collate and assess from all sources. I'm not even going to mention the $5.3tn nonsense as it is just a straw man to try to make the $550bn look more realistic and look, it worked.
No the subsidies are deliberately byzantine in order to obscure their magnitude and origins (your bills and taxes). Yes you can apply the same rules re income taxes etc however, that's robbing Peter to pay Paul, is not a free market and ultimately is unsustainable.
Absolutely! Subsidies and complex tax rules across all the industries that both produce and consume power just obscure the true costs, they should be exposed and leveled.
I think there are some countries that do not offer carbon fuel subsidies in the mass market although their top 1% of population are unlikely to be paying the full market price out of their own pockets.
The charcoal fuel markets in many parts of Africa for example seems to be based on entirely "free market" activities (some would say black market of course) with no subsidies available that I am aware of.
It might be a good model for other countries to follow.
Tricky here in the UK though. We can blame past generations for the shortage of forestry material that would be required mostly due to housebuilding and the enormous effort that went into building a slave labour based Navy with which to go out and "conquer" the world.
The charcoal fuel markets in many parts of Africa for example seems to be based on entirely "free market" activities (some would say black market of course) with no subsidies available that I am aware of.
It might be a good model for other countries to follow.
Tricky here in the UK though. We can blame past generations for the shortage of forestry material that would be required mostly due to housebuilding and the enormous effort that went into building a slave labour based Navy with which to go out and "conquer" the world.
wc98 said:
Ali G said:
The Planet Has Been Saved!
God Bless Obama!
Not.
just listened to a bit of obamas speech on the news comparing carbon dioxide with arsenic and mercury. afaic he is either willfully ignorant or a fGod Bless Obama!
Not.
king liar. that someone like that can achieve the position of apparently the worlds most powerful man tells me the very best thing that could happen is sea levels rise 2000 feet or the entire globe freezes under a 2 mile thick ice sheet, because the human race is a complete and utter waste of fking space.put the
in a room alone with me for 5 mins and we will find out how powerful he is,utter, utter fking cretin.i hate these chicken little sky is falling bds with a passion.In the parlance of the good ol' US of A, this will, no doubt, in time, be viewed as...The Dork Legacy.
wc98 said:
just listened to a bit of obamas speech on the news comparing carbon dioxide with arsenic and mercury. afaic he is either willfully ignorant or a fking liar. that someone like that can achieve the position of apparently the worlds most powerful man tells me the very best thing that could happen is sea levels rise 2000 feet or the entire globe freezes under a 2 mile thick ice sheet, because the human race is a complete and utter waste of fking space.
put the in a room alone with me for 5 mins and we will find out how powerful he is,utter, utter fking cretin.i hate these chicken little sky is falling bds with a passion.
Where is your Nobel peace prize eh? How good are you at reading out words written by other people. When have you been a community organiser? If you like your Dr you can keep your Dr.... What difference does it make. Worst president ever.king liar. that someone like that can achieve the position of apparently the worlds most powerful man tells me the very best thing that could happen is sea levels rise 2000 feet or the entire globe freezes under a 2 mile thick ice sheet, because the human race is a complete and utter waste of fking space.put the
in a room alone with me for 5 mins and we will find out how powerful he is,utter, utter fking cretin.i hate these chicken little sky is falling bds with a passion.Pesty said:
wc98 said:
just listened to a bit of obamas speech on the news comparing carbon dioxide with arsenic and mercury. afaic he is either willfully ignorant or a fking liar. that someone like that can achieve the position of apparently the worlds most powerful man tells me the very best thing that could happen is sea levels rise 2000 feet or the entire globe freezes under a 2 mile thick ice sheet, because the human race is a complete and utter waste of fking space.
put the in a room alone with me for 5 mins and we will find out how powerful he is,utter, utter fking cretin.i hate these chicken little sky is falling bds with a passion.
Where is your Nobel peace prize eh? How good are you at reading out words written by other people. When have you been a community organiser? If you like your Dr you can keep your Dr.... What difference does it make. Worst president ever.king liar. that someone like that can achieve the position of apparently the worlds most powerful man tells me the very best thing that could happen is sea levels rise 2000 feet or the entire globe freezes under a 2 mile thick ice sheet, because the human race is a complete and utter waste of fking space.put the
in a room alone with me for 5 mins and we will find out how powerful he is,utter, utter fking cretin.i hate these chicken little sky is falling bds with a passion.mybrainhurts said:
Pesty said:
wc98 said:
just listened to a bit of obamas speech on the news comparing carbon dioxide with arsenic and mercury. afaic he is either willfully ignorant or a fking liar. that someone like that can achieve the position of apparently the worlds most powerful man tells me the very best thing that could happen is sea levels rise 2000 feet or the entire globe freezes under a 2 mile thick ice sheet, because the human race is a complete and utter waste of fking space.
put the in a room alone with me for 5 mins and we will find out how powerful he is,utter, utter fking cretin.i hate these chicken little sky is falling bds with a passion.
Where is your Nobel peace prize eh? How good are you at reading out words written by other people. When have you been a community organiser? If you like your Dr you can keep your Dr.... What difference does it make. Worst president ever.king liar. that someone like that can achieve the position of apparently the worlds most powerful man tells me the very best thing that could happen is sea levels rise 2000 feet or the entire globe freezes under a 2 mile thick ice sheet, because the human race is a complete and utter waste of fking space.put the
in a room alone with me for 5 mins and we will find out how powerful he is,utter, utter fking cretin.i hate these chicken little sky is falling bds with a passion.turbobloke said:
mybrainhurts said:
Pesty said:
wc98 said:
just listened to a bit of obamas speech on the news comparing carbon dioxide with arsenic and mercury. afaic he is either willfully ignorant or a fking liar. that someone like that can achieve the position of apparently the worlds most powerful man tells me the very best thing that could happen is sea levels rise 2000 feet or the entire globe freezes under a 2 mile thick ice sheet, because the human race is a complete and utter waste of fking space.
put the in a room alone with me for 5 mins and we will find out how powerful he is,utter, utter fking cretin.i hate these chicken little sky is falling bds with a passion.
Where is your Nobel peace prize eh? How good are you at reading out words written by other people. When have you been a community organiser? If you like your Dr you can keep your Dr.... What difference does it make. Worst president ever.king liar. that someone like that can achieve the position of apparently the worlds most powerful man tells me the very best thing that could happen is sea levels rise 2000 feet or the entire globe freezes under a 2 mile thick ice sheet, because the human race is a complete and utter waste of fking space.put the
in a room alone with me for 5 mins and we will find out how powerful he is,utter, utter fking cretin.i hate these chicken little sky is falling bds with a passion.2013BRM said:
turbobloke said:
mybrainhurts said:
Pesty said:
wc98 said:
just listened to a bit of obamas speech on the news comparing carbon dioxide with arsenic and mercury. afaic he is either willfully ignorant or a fking liar. that someone like that can achieve the position of apparently the worlds most powerful man tells me the very best thing that could happen is sea levels rise 2000 feet or the entire globe freezes under a 2 mile thick ice sheet, because the human race is a complete and utter waste of fking space.
put the in a room alone with me for 5 mins and we will find out how powerful he is,utter, utter fking cretin.i hate these chicken little sky is falling bds with a passion.
Where is your Nobel peace prize eh? How good are you at reading out words written by other people. When have you been a community organiser? If you like your Dr you can keep your Dr.... What difference does it make. Worst president ever.king liar. that someone like that can achieve the position of apparently the worlds most powerful man tells me the very best thing that could happen is sea levels rise 2000 feet or the entire globe freezes under a 2 mile thick ice sheet, because the human race is a complete and utter waste of fking space.put the
in a room alone with me for 5 mins and we will find out how powerful he is,utter, utter fking cretin.i hate these chicken little sky is falling bds with a passion.mybrainhurts said:
2013BRM said:
turbobloke said:
mybrainhurts said:
Pesty said:
wc98 said:
just listened to a bit of obamas speech on the news comparing carbon dioxide with arsenic and mercury. afaic he is either willfully ignorant or a fking liar. that someone like that can achieve the position of apparently the worlds most powerful man tells me the very best thing that could happen is sea levels rise 2000 feet or the entire globe freezes under a 2 mile thick ice sheet, because the human race is a complete and utter waste of fking space.
put the in a room alone with me for 5 mins and we will find out how powerful he is,utter, utter fking cretin.i hate these chicken little sky is falling bds with a passion.
Where is your Nobel peace prize eh? How good are you at reading out words written by other people. When have you been a community organiser? If you like your Dr you can keep your Dr.... What difference does it make. Worst president ever.king liar. that someone like that can achieve the position of apparently the worlds most powerful man tells me the very best thing that could happen is sea levels rise 2000 feet or the entire globe freezes under a 2 mile thick ice sheet, because the human race is a complete and utter waste of fking space.put the
in a room alone with me for 5 mins and we will find out how powerful he is,utter, utter fking cretin.i hate these chicken little sky is falling bds with a passion.mybrainhurts said:
2013BRM said:
turbobloke said:
mybrainhurts said:
Pesty said:
wc98 said:
just listened to a bit of obamas speech on the news comparing carbon dioxide with arsenic and mercury. afaic he is either willfully ignorant or a fking liar. that someone like that can achieve the position of apparently the worlds most powerful man tells me the very best thing that could happen is sea levels rise 2000 feet or the entire globe freezes under a 2 mile thick ice sheet, because the human race is a complete and utter waste of fking space.
put the in a room alone with me for 5 mins and we will find out how powerful he is,utter, utter fking cretin.i hate these chicken little sky is falling bds with a passion.
Where is your Nobel peace prize eh? How good are you at reading out words written by other people. When have you been a community organiser? If you like your Dr you can keep your Dr.... What difference does it make. Worst president ever.king liar. that someone like that can achieve the position of apparently the worlds most powerful man tells me the very best thing that could happen is sea levels rise 2000 feet or the entire globe freezes under a 2 mile thick ice sheet, because the human race is a complete and utter waste of fking space.put the
in a room alone with me for 5 mins and we will find out how powerful he is,utter, utter fking cretin.i hate these chicken little sky is falling bds with a passion.
2013BRM said:
something else is the prime mover here and it's not CO2, it's $, follow the money to see why he is spouting this utter bilge
That $1.5 trillion dollar industry you mean.http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2015...
They can't help themselves can they. The first line of a BBC article on Freediving;
'With sea levels rising, can humans adapt to a more watery world?'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-1215...
Sounds like we are all going to have to learn how to hold our breath for longer.
'With sea levels rising, can humans adapt to a more watery world?'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-1215...
Sounds like we are all going to have to learn how to hold our breath for longer.
stevejh said:
They can't help themselves can they. The first line of a BBC article on Freediving;
'With sea levels rising, can humans adapt to a more watery world?'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-1215...
Sounds like we are all going to have to learn how to hold our breath for longer.
Well, that article was written in January 2011, and we haven't 'With sea levels rising, can humans adapt to a more watery world?'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-1215...
Sounds like we are all going to have to learn how to hold our breath for longer.
nelly1 said:
stevejh said:
They can't help themselves can they. The first line of a BBC article on Freediving;
'With sea levels rising, can humans adapt to a more watery world?'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-1215...
Sounds like we are all going to have to learn how to hold our breath for longer.
Well, that article was written in January 2011, and we haven't 'With sea levels rising, can humans adapt to a more watery world?'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-1215...
Sounds like we are all going to have to learn how to hold our breath for longer.
In an article dated today the BBC might not point out the lack of difference in temperature terms since the mid- to late-90s...in a warming world...
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff