Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 3

[turbobloke]

Just heard my first mention of the Paris climate boondoggle on Sky News. It was given the coverage it deserves, it lasted for about 5 seconds. For those who still watch the propaganda how's the BBC coping?

[Mr GrimNasty]

U.N. climate chief Christiana Figueres reconfirms, it's not about the climate stupid, it's about dismantling capitalism.

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/021015-73...

[mybrainhurts]

Mr GrimNasty said:

U.N. climate chief Christiana Figueres reconfirms, it's not about the climate stupid, it's about dismantling capitalism.

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/021015-73...

Good god, that's the first image of her I've seen.

What a blow, she sounds so feminine on the radio.

I'm really quite devastated...

[LongQ]

mybrainhurts said:

Good god, that's the first image of her I've seen.

What a blow, she sounds so feminine on the radio.

I'm really quite devastated...

Seems she has a Masters from the LSE.

That could explain a lot although according to Wiki her family background would likely have meant she was more influential on the LSE than it was on her.

Her Wiki entry is incredibly impressive. How can one person do so much?

As I read it I was starting to wonder if it might be a tad over egged. Then I came to this part:

"She has been trained and authorized by Al Gore to deliver his presentation An Inconvenient Truth."


What can one say?

She seems, according to the Wiki text, to have a reputation as a "doer". Probably in much the same way that Presclot had the same reputation amongst his peers.

Edited by LongQ on Saturday 21st November 23:17

[Ali G]

LongQ said:

Seems she has a Masters from the LSE.

That could explain a lot although according to Wiki her family background would likely have meant she was more influential on the LSE than it was on her.

Figueres Wiki said:

Her father, José Figueres Ferrer, was President of Costa Rica three times: 1948–49, 1953–1958, and 1970–1974. José Figueres Ferrer was the leader of the 1948 Revolution and is considered the founder of modern democracy in Costa Rica. He is best known for abolishing the army in 1948 and establishing a broad system of checks and balances that are at the root of Costa Rica’s stable development to this day.[citation needed] Figueres’ mother, Karen Olsen Beck, served as Costa Rican Ambassador to Israel in 1982 and was a member of the Legislative Assembly from 1990–1994. The couple had four children. Figueres' older brother José Figueres Olsen, was also President of Costa Rica (1994–1998), and is credited with having steered the country onto a path of sustainable development which continues to this day. Younger brother Mariano Figueres Olsen is currently active in politics and manages the family firm, together with younger sister Kirsten Figueres Olsen.

No politics there then, per Wiki.

[Mr GrimNasty]

No doubt Cost Rica would be one of the countries to benefit from the funneling of $$$$$$$, envisage under this marvelous new world order.

So no self interest/conflict obviously.

[Pesty]

MIT Climate Scientist Dr. Richard Lindzen: 'Demonization of CO2 is irrational at best and even modest warming is mostly beneficial.' - 'When someone says this is the warmest temperature on record. What are they talking about? It’s just nonsense. This is a very tiny change period.'

Read more: http://www.climatedepot.com/2015/11/19/scientists-...

[LongQ]

Ali G said:

LongQ said:

Seems she has a Masters from the LSE.

That could explain a lot although according to Wiki her family background would likely have meant she was more influential on the LSE than it was on her.

Figueres Wiki said:

Her father, José Figueres Ferrer, was President of Costa Rica three times: 1948–49, 1953–1958, and 1970–1974. José Figueres Ferrer was the leader of the 1948 Revolution and is considered the founder of modern democracy in Costa Rica. He is best known for abolishing the army in 1948 and establishing a broad system of checks and balances that are at the root of Costa Rica’s stable development to this day.[citation needed] Figueres’ mother, Karen Olsen Beck, served as Costa Rican Ambassador to Israel in 1982 and was a member of the Legislative Assembly from 1990–1994. The couple had four children. Figueres' older brother José Figueres Olsen, was also President of Costa Rica (1994–1998), and is credited with having steered the country onto a path of sustainable development which continues to this day. Younger brother Mariano Figueres Olsen is currently active in politics and manages the family firm, together with younger sister Kirsten Figueres Olsen.

No politics there then, per Wiki.

Her husband works for the World Bank.

"Konrad von Ritter has been working at the World Bank since 1989 on sustainable development issues. Since March 2005, he has been manager of the Sustainable Development Unit at the World Bank Institute (WBI), the capacity development and training arm of the World Bank Group. The Sustainable Development Unit focuses on climate change, water resource management, and local government.

His prior responsibilities at the World Bank included a number of projects in Eastern Europe/Central Asia and East Asia. He managed the Bank's Caspian Environment Program, a GEF funded international waters project, wrote a study to assess Russia's capacity to undertake environmental impact assessments and co-authored a publication on economic valuation of ecosystems. He supported the Philippines in introducing pollution charges, worked on urban water and waste water projects in China, and started up programs to phase out Ozone Depleting Substances in the Philippines, Thailand, and Malaysia. In addition, Konrad spent two years on a staff exchange with The Nature Conservancy, an environmental NGO.

Prior to joining the Bank he lived in Central America for four years and worked with the International Labour Organization on micro-enterprise development in low income urban areas of Panama, Guatemala, and Costa Rica.

Konrad has Masters in Economics and in Political Science from the Freie University, Berlin, Germany."

No obvious sign of science in either history.

[motco]

Mr GrimNasty said:

U.N. climate chief Christiana Figueres reconfirms, it's not about the climate stupid, it's about dismantling capitalism.

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/021015-73...

Why is this not blazed across the front pages of the right-wing media?

[robinessex]

Because it's not predicting climate armageddon !!

[LongQ]

motco said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

U.N. climate chief Christiana Figueres reconfirms, it's not about the climate stupid, it's about dismantling capitalism.

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/021015-73...

Why is this not blazed across the front pages of the right-wing media?

Well, the business opportunities opened up in a relatively unregulated market that the "developing world" offers must look quite attractive to multinational business leaders.

Together with the anticipation that a further 2 billion people will be added to the population of the planet by late this century (if not sooner), mostly in those same less regulated places that must be an enticing proposition.

However they would all like some support to "make things happen" which means, in part, releasing funds tied up in developed countries to seed work in less developed countries (to put it simplistically).

They would also probably like to have others decide for social purposes what developments are acceptable rather than take it upon themselves only to find that the political activists have different views and cause problems.

Those at the top of the business pyramid can protect their own positions in such a way that they are unlikely to be adversely affected by any enforced wealth transfer so they have nothing to lose by jumping into the hot tub with those who wish to re-engineer the social constructs around the world. In fact they have a lot to gain. The last thing they would want would be any media people making such potential developments regular public knowledge. I expect they make that very clear to the media people, many of whom report directly to a few of those who are at the pinnacle of the aforementioned pyramid.

It was ever thus.

When the age for voting drops to 16 a largish number of readily influenced people will be responsible for "democratic" decisions without, perhaps, the experiences to understand what they mean long term. However, they will have taken ownership of their decision and, once part of a particular supporters club, will likely tend to stick with them through thick and thin.

So influencing youngsters starting with primary schools is important to the "political classes".

Doubly so when a significant part of the indigenous birth rate seems to involve fairly recent arrivals who are central to broadening the cultural base of the country. This despite their historic cultural family backgrounds offering little if any lines of guidance for the opportunities and decisions that will be available to them and which they are likely to strongly influence.

The challenge for the political classes who seek the changes of power structure that such developments offer is whether they can find a way to keep their power and influence as things evolve.

Those who are fortunate enough to have the ear of the business leaders and avoid the need to be elected through some form of "democratic" voting process will be relatively immune to most of those considerations. They may, therefore, think differently to most other people. They may take the business leaders with them, being "smart" and "forward thinking" personalities (as they like to think of themselves).

[durbster]

motco said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

U.N. climate chief Christiana Figueres reconfirms, it's not about the climate stupid, it's about dismantling capitalism.

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/021015-73...

Why is this not blazed across the front pages of the right-wing media?

Because it's not newsworthy?

All she said is what they need to do to address the climate issue, i.e. shift developed nations away from being oil dependent economies. That isn't exactly a shocking development.

[turbobloke]

durbster said:

motco said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

U.N. climate chief Christiana Figueres reconfirms, it's not about the climate stupid, it's about dismantling capitalism.

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/021015-73...

Why is this not blazed across the front pages of the right-wing media?

Because it's not newsworthy?

Not an isolated incident, and media believer bias isn't news The MSM is part of the problem.

2008
Media bias in global warming coverage

2015
Press Ignoring Unsettling News For Global Warming's True Believers

Hardly surprising given that media believer hacks love gloom & doom stories and aren't that smart but climate realists speak as they find from the data and are smarter

http://joannenova.com.au/2011/07/survey-shows-skep...

[Beati Dogu]

Most journalists are also innumerate arts graduates, whose eyes glaze over at anything remotely techy. Easy to bullst in other words.

[Mr GrimNasty]

Flashback - As they brazenly admit - it has never been about the environment.

[Mr GrimNasty]

I think some of those warmists will need to organise a quick Polar Bear hunt before Paris.

Population likely increasing/stable, can't have that - it's contrary to all climate scare headlines, lets call it 'unknown' instead, that's only half a lie!

Current Population Trend: Unknown
Extreme fluctuations: No
Population severely fragmented: No
No. of subpopulations: 19
Continuing decline in subpopulations: No
Extreme fluctuations in subpopulations: No

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/22823/0

[Mr GrimNasty]

Radcliffe Observatory, one of the most important for CET etc.

And this is not a one off apparently!

I'm not sure if the heater (sucking in air presumably - rather than exhaust as implied) would have as much effect as an enormous leaky heated tent nearby.



https://suddenoaklifeorg.wordpress.com/2015/11/21/...

[turbobloke]

Mr GrimNasty said:

Radcliffe Observatory, one of the most important for CET etc.

It may not be the worst offender but would it surprise anyone if the higher temperature is substituted for a range of cooler entirely rural locations many km distant where there's no sensor?

The importance would then be clear.

Mr GrimNasty said:

And this is not a one off apparently!

Heathrow's new sensor is kept washed, by jets.

In the USA there are sensors near chimneys, aircon outlets, trash burners, on a roof or three, other airport tarmac, car parks and so on.

Some time ago there was a hoohah about a 'record' somewhere in Oz and it turned out the sensor was in a town centre location on a main road where traffic jams occur, and one had occurred. It was covered on PH at the time. Great science, great politics.

[durbster]

turbobloke said:

Not an isolated incident, and media believer bias isn't news The MSM is part of the problem.

2008
Media bias in global warming coverage

2015
Press Ignoring Unsettling News For Global Warming's True Believers

Hardly surprising given that media believer hacks love gloom & doom stories and aren't that smart but climate realists speak as they find from the data and are smarter

http://joannenova.com.au/2011/07/survey-shows-skep...

Blimey, the goalposts of the anti-AGW arguments move around far faster than I can keep up with (it's almost as if they're lacking solid foundations ).

A few days ago you were throwing newspaper articles at me as a counterpoint to the scientific research I cited, and indeed skimming back a few pages I see you post links to mainstream media articles in just about every other post you make.

But now the mainstream media are morons that can't be trusted to report honestly on matters of science, apparently, because they're not covering a story in which somebody says something that isn't very interesting because it's already obvious and well known.

Skeptics should be smarter given they should be looking at things objectively, but I don't see much evidence of that here. Generally the pattern is: find a quote, news article or blog post on the web that supports your view and post it.

There's very little evidence that people are bothering to check sources, context or credibility before posting or commenting.

The quote above from Odenhofer is a prime example. In isolation it might appear quite shocking, but how many apparent skeptics on here read it and then went to find the original source of the quote, and the context in which it was said?

If you didn't, you shouldn't really consider yourself a skeptic.

[Einion Yrth]

durbster said:

If you didn't, you shouldn't really consider yourself a skeptic.

I don't, because I'm English and it's spelt with a "c".