Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 3
Discussion
GnuBee said:
Whether you think it's all "man's" fault is irrelevant; if the climate is changing and how we respond to that is what defines us that then's the bit that matters. Even if you don't think the climate is changing do you honestly believe the way in which we currently consume all our resources is tenable?
But this is a different question, you're not on the same page as those cretins in Paris. You're asking a sensible question here - yes, gas and oil will eventually become more expensive to extract but it's not right now so lets not impose wind farms and other lentilist taxes on decent people, many of whom are old and can't afford to keep warm now so die in the winter. (This is a govt fact, not a PH conspiracy) Lets not charge our business so much for electricity that they become uncompetitive.We need more nuclear power stations, lower CO2 (if that's important to you) than wind farms per kW/h produced and uses technology we have now and is proven to be reliable and safe. What's not to like ?
Here's an opportunity
COP21: Residents on Vanuatu 'must be relocated'
4 hours ago
With climate change topping the agenda in Paris, community leaders on the Pacific island of Vanuatu are calling for residents to be relocated further inland to avoid storm surges and rising sea levels.
The BBC's Matthew Price reports from the island, described by some as being on the "front line of climate change".
Matthew will be hosting a live video Q&A at 21:00 GMT on Tuesday on how climate change is affecting Vanuatu. If you have a question, you can get in touch in one of the following ways:
Email: haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk
WhatsApp: +44 7525 900971
Tweet: @BBC_HaveYourSay
Send an SMS or MMS to 61124 or if you are outside of the UK +44 7624 800 100
COP21: Residents on Vanuatu 'must be relocated'
4 hours ago
With climate change topping the agenda in Paris, community leaders on the Pacific island of Vanuatu are calling for residents to be relocated further inland to avoid storm surges and rising sea levels.
The BBC's Matthew Price reports from the island, described by some as being on the "front line of climate change".
Matthew will be hosting a live video Q&A at 21:00 GMT on Tuesday on how climate change is affecting Vanuatu. If you have a question, you can get in touch in one of the following ways:
Email: haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk
WhatsApp: +44 7525 900971
Tweet: @BBC_HaveYourSay
Send an SMS or MMS to 61124 or if you are outside of the UK +44 7624 800 100
robinessex said:
Here's an opportunity
COP21: Residents on Vanuatu 'must be relocated'
4 hours ago
With climate change topping the agenda in Paris, community leaders on the Pacific island of Vanuatu are calling for residents to be relocated further inland to avoid storm surges and rising sea levels.
The BBC's Matthew Price reports from the island, described by some as being on the "front line of climate change".
Matthew will be hosting a live video Q&A at 21:00 GMT on Tuesday on how climate change is affecting Vanuatu. If you have a question, you can get in touch in one of the following ways:
Email: haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk
WhatsApp: +44 7525 900971
Tweet: @BBC_HaveYourSay
Send an SMS or MMS to 61124 or if you are outside of the UK +44 7624 800 100
This is the island that's highest point is something like 2 metres? Of 4 if you count the top of the rubbish dump?COP21: Residents on Vanuatu 'must be relocated'
4 hours ago
With climate change topping the agenda in Paris, community leaders on the Pacific island of Vanuatu are calling for residents to be relocated further inland to avoid storm surges and rising sea levels.
The BBC's Matthew Price reports from the island, described by some as being on the "front line of climate change".
Matthew will be hosting a live video Q&A at 21:00 GMT on Tuesday on how climate change is affecting Vanuatu. If you have a question, you can get in touch in one of the following ways:
Email: haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk
WhatsApp: +44 7525 900971
Tweet: @BBC_HaveYourSay
Send an SMS or MMS to 61124 or if you are outside of the UK +44 7624 800 100
One thing to ask Matthew is why he feels justified in releasing so much carbon for a few seconds of TV before then flying on to Texas for his next stop.
Then ask his boss how the BBC justifies the expenditure.
I would like to know. My Wife's TV Licence is due for renewal and I need someone to justify the cost of it.
This is also the Island that recent bought a part of somewhere else - was if Fiji? So the politicians have money - and use it to game the credulity of the western world.
The irony of choosing Vanuatu as the poster child of global warming is obviously lost on them.
It's also the home of the original "cargo cult".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_science
It's also the home of the original "cargo cult".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_science
Edited by Beati Dogu on Tuesday 1st December 16:37
robinessex said:
Here's an opportunity
COP21: Residents on Vanuatu 'must be relocated'
4 hours ago
With climate change topping the agenda in Paris, community leaders on the Pacific island of Vanuatu are calling for residents to be relocated further inland to avoid storm surges and rising sea levels.
Or to avoid the embarrassment of seeing the water's edge and tidal gauges.COP21: Residents on Vanuatu 'must be relocated'
4 hours ago
With climate change topping the agenda in Paris, community leaders on the Pacific island of Vanuatu are calling for residents to be relocated further inland to avoid storm surges and rising sea levels.
http://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/stations/1841....
Just look at that massive sea level rise
and while tabulated data would make life easier, given the scale of the graphic, just what exactly is the magnitude of the notable sea level fall since ~1997 or indeed since ~2008?!They'd be better off doing what every other climate toad does - just relocate the tidal guage readings with a bit of "adjustment" mand have done with it.
robinessex said:
Try commonsense and logic. You don't need scientific qualifications for that.
Planet earth had been in existance for circa 4.5 billion years. In that time, it's gone through a mulitude of climate changes, NONE of them due to hummans, because we weren't here. Now, all of a sudden, in the last, lets see, wow, 150 yrs, man had dished out 0.00585% extra CO2, and that's goint to tip the planet into a path of self destruction ? When there is no proof CO2 raises planet temperatures anyway. When dinosaurs roamed around, the CO2 levels were 2-5 times higher. And they lived for circa 50,000,00 years ok. Go figure
It's interesting that they can attribute the change in temperature to such an insignificant amount of CO2, they must be tracking everything that could have an affect and they must be staying static (an unlikely scenario I admit ) amazing what you can do with modern computers, especially when you know the answer before running the programme. Planet earth had been in existance for circa 4.5 billion years. In that time, it's gone through a mulitude of climate changes, NONE of them due to hummans, because we weren't here. Now, all of a sudden, in the last, lets see, wow, 150 yrs, man had dished out 0.00585% extra CO2, and that's goint to tip the planet into a path of self destruction ? When there is no proof CO2 raises planet temperatures anyway. When dinosaurs roamed around, the CO2 levels were 2-5 times higher. And they lived for circa 50,000,00 years ok. Go figure
Oh look, right on cue, Maldives, the drowning island scam!
http://realclimatescience.com/2015/12/the-drowning...
http://realclimatescience.com/2015/12/the-drowning...
GnuBee said:
They didn't land on the moon in 69 either and when they did get there the aliens were already present. I thought the "Science" thread was all a bit "Conspiracy Theory" but it pails into insignificance compared to this one.
Have we mentioned the BBC's role in this global conspiracy? I heard it was the council of seven as well.
How much did NASA defraud you of?
All this linking graphs and coming out with things like this: "Atolls of the Maldives are impervious to fractionally millimetric levels of claimed sea level rise" is as "fanatical" as the very people you seek to decry and accuse of massive fraud on a global scale.
This is all a shame, too much time spent shouting "I'm right, you're wrong" at one another which could/should be energy going into really looking at some of this from the basics of whether or not what we do as a civilization is tenable.
No I don't live "off-grid", yes I do think nuclear fusion is a probably a way forward, yes I do think a mixed generation portfolio is sensible especially when looked at further than cost of petrol at your local station in middle England.
NASA has recently 'adjusted' and doubled the Sea level rise cf what the IPCC reported a few years back. Have we mentioned the BBC's role in this global conspiracy? I heard it was the council of seven as well.
How much did NASA defraud you of?
All this linking graphs and coming out with things like this: "Atolls of the Maldives are impervious to fractionally millimetric levels of claimed sea level rise" is as "fanatical" as the very people you seek to decry and accuse of massive fraud on a global scale.
This is all a shame, too much time spent shouting "I'm right, you're wrong" at one another which could/should be energy going into really looking at some of this from the basics of whether or not what we do as a civilization is tenable.
No I don't live "off-grid", yes I do think nuclear fusion is a probably a way forward, yes I do think a mixed generation portfolio is sensible especially when looked at further than cost of petrol at your local station in middle England.
It's not a case of who is right or wrong, it's a case of what the most reliable unadulterated data and best scientific methods suggests.
If you actually took the effort to look at real data, and not repeat what you are told, and what your closed mind believes, you wouldn't look so ignorant and sound so, well, errrm, mental.
Edited by Mr GrimNasty on Tuesday 1st December 17:28
Mr GrimNasty said:
Oh look, right on cue, Maldives, the drowning island scam!
http://realclimatescience.com/2015/12/the-drowning...
http://realclimatescience.com/2015/12/the-drowning...
Thanks for that, I'd never have posted about the Maldives earlier without my IPCC Mk II Crystal Ball telling me you'd add that link around 1750 hrs.
Nice teamwork
Weary of internet morons said:
Just a quick question. What exactly does the word literal mean? In a context like, "... as we literally experiment with the world's destruction." So is the world, this big ball of rock and, well, all the rest of it, literally doomed?
Guess who thinks it is.
Chuck...Guess who thinks it is.
What did I win?
PRTVR said:
robinessex said:
Try commonsense and logic. You don't need scientific qualifications for that.
Planet earth had been in existance for circa 4.5 billion years. In that time, it's gone through a mulitude of climate changes, NONE of them due to hummans, because we weren't here. Now, all of a sudden, in the last, lets see, wow, 150 yrs, man had dished out 0.00585% extra CO2, and that's goint to tip the planet into a path of self destruction ? When there is no proof CO2 raises planet temperatures anyway. When dinosaurs roamed around, the CO2 levels were 2-5 times higher. And they lived for circa 50,000,00 years ok. Go figure
It's interesting that they can attribute the change in temperature to such an insignificant amount of CO2, they must be tracking everything that could have an affect and they must be staying static (an unlikely scenario I admit ) amazing what you can do with modern computers, especially when you know the answer before running the programme. Planet earth had been in existance for circa 4.5 billion years. In that time, it's gone through a mulitude of climate changes, NONE of them due to hummans, because we weren't here. Now, all of a sudden, in the last, lets see, wow, 150 yrs, man had dished out 0.00585% extra CO2, and that's goint to tip the planet into a path of self destruction ? When there is no proof CO2 raises planet temperatures anyway. When dinosaurs roamed around, the CO2 levels were 2-5 times higher. And they lived for circa 50,000,00 years ok. Go figure
They do the experiment in schools. There are several videos on YouTube of people doing the experiment. If you still don't trust it then you can do the experiment yourself with a couple of jam jars at home (or, er, in your greenhouse):
http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/practical-chemis...
durbster said:
PRTVR said:
robinessex said:
Try commonsense and logic. You don't need scientific qualifications for that.
Planet earth had been in existance for circa 4.5 billion years. In that time, it's gone through a mulitude of climate changes, NONE of them due to hummans, because we weren't here. Now, all of a sudden, in the last, lets see, wow, 150 yrs, man had dished out 0.00585% extra CO2, and that's goint to tip the planet into a path of self destruction ? When there is no proof CO2 raises planet temperatures anyway. When dinosaurs roamed around, the CO2 levels were 2-5 times higher. And they lived for circa 50,000,00 years ok. Go figure
It's interesting that they can attribute the change in temperature to such an insignificant amount of CO2, they must be tracking everything that could have an affect and they must be staying static (an unlikely scenario I admit ) amazing what you can do with modern computers, especially when you know the answer before running the programme. Planet earth had been in existance for circa 4.5 billion years. In that time, it's gone through a mulitude of climate changes, NONE of them due to hummans, because we weren't here. Now, all of a sudden, in the last, lets see, wow, 150 yrs, man had dished out 0.00585% extra CO2, and that's goint to tip the planet into a path of self destruction ? When there is no proof CO2 raises planet temperatures anyway. When dinosaurs roamed around, the CO2 levels were 2-5 times higher. And they lived for circa 50,000,00 years ok. Go figure
They do the experiment in schools. There are several videos on YouTube of people doing the experiment. If you still don't trust it then you can do the experiment yourself with a couple of jam jars at home (or, er, in your greenhouse):
http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/practical-chemis...
durbster said:
PRTVR said:
robinessex said:
Try commonsense and logic. You don't need scientific qualifications for that.
Planet earth had been in existance for circa 4.5 billion years. In that time, it's gone through a mulitude of climate changes, NONE of them due to hummans, because we weren't here. Now, all of a sudden, in the last, lets see, wow, 150 yrs, man had dished out 0.00585% extra CO2, and that's goint to tip the planet into a path of self destruction ? When there is no proof CO2 raises planet temperatures anyway. When dinosaurs roamed around, the CO2 levels were 2-5 times higher. And they lived for circa 50,000,00 years ok. Go figure
It's interesting that they can attribute the change in temperature to such an insignificant amount of CO2, they must be tracking everything that could have an affect and they must be staying static (an unlikely scenario I admit ) amazing what you can do with modern computers, especially when you know the answer before running the programme. Planet earth had been in existance for circa 4.5 billion years. In that time, it's gone through a mulitude of climate changes, NONE of them due to hummans, because we weren't here. Now, all of a sudden, in the last, lets see, wow, 150 yrs, man had dished out 0.00585% extra CO2, and that's goint to tip the planet into a path of self destruction ? When there is no proof CO2 raises planet temperatures anyway. When dinosaurs roamed around, the CO2 levels were 2-5 times higher. And they lived for circa 50,000,00 years ok. Go figure
durbster said:
They do the experiment in schools.
They do an experiment, but it doesn't involve the enhanced greenhouse effect.durbster said:
There are several videos on YouTube of people doing the experiment.
It's not an experiment showing the enhanced greenhouse effect.durbster said:
If you still don't trust it then you can do the experiment yourself with a couple of jam jars at home (or, er, in your greenhouse):
http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/practical-chemis...
That lash-up does not demonstrate the enhanced greenhouse effect.http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/practical-chemis...
The fact that you don't realise this, suggests you're not really up to your own self-belief, on which basis believing that others have belief that they've seen an invisible signal may not be a good idea.
Einion Yrth said:
Vanuatu - Highest Mountains
Name Elevation
1 Tabwémasana , Sanma 1,877 m
2 Garet , Torba 797 m
3 Mount Gillan, Malampa 733 m
4 Mont Maunga, Shepherd 644 m
Ah, I always get the ones with PR machines and begging bowls confused.Name Elevation
1 Tabwémasana , Sanma 1,877 m
2 Garet , Torba 797 m
3 Mount Gillan, Malampa 733 m
4 Mont Maunga, Shepherd 644 m
So this ones a volcanic outcrop(?) and the other one I was thinking of would be kiribati where they are trashing the fresh water supplies (?). And then there's the Maldives, Right?
LongQ said:
Einion Yrth said:
Vanuatu - Highest Mountains
Name Elevation
1 Tabwémasana , Sanma 1,877 m
2 Garet , Torba 797 m
3 Mount Gillan, Malampa 733 m
4 Mont Maunga, Shepherd 644 m
Ah, I always get the ones with PR machines and begging bowls confused.Name Elevation
1 Tabwémasana , Sanma 1,877 m
2 Garet , Torba 797 m
3 Mount Gillan, Malampa 733 m
4 Mont Maunga, Shepherd 644 m
So this ones a volcanic outcrop(?) and the other one I was thinking of would be kiribati where they are trashing the fresh water supplies (?). And then there's the Maldives, Right?
Without wanting to stir the pot too much (partner's a dyed in the wool environmentalist...) I note that Lovelock has changed his tune in recent years. Other than seeming to remember that Monbiot had a dig at him a while back, I haven't noticed this somewhat interesting change of stance being mentioned at all. Has he been airbrushed out?
nelly1 said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
You clearly lack the ability to distinguish a straw man and a prime example.
Sea level data isn't alarming - and that's just fact.
Good grief man! You forgot the 'adjustments'...Sea level data isn't alarming - and that's just fact.
http://www.slideshare.net/adriandanpop/unfccc-stud...
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