Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 3

[motco]

turbobloke said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

Europe is pretty irrelevant, the reality of insufficient generating capacity will be the most important factor.

With a new Gas field on-line in Shetland, and a new North Sea Oil scale strike at Gatwick, and with fracking sites set to be forced through countrywide, we are not going to leave our own resources in the ground whilst the lights go out and people freeze, no matter how may worst/hottest lies the BBC keeps churning out.

The government has already realised that lack of, or very expensive 'green', power, is unrealistic and unacceptable.

Osborne has, helped on the way by Lord Lawson, but CMD is still polishing circles of stars in his father-in-law's windymill collection. Vote blue get green and stay in the EU, etc.

CMD may well be on the skids with luck. He's backing a dodgy nag in Europe.

[wc98]

from a link on the bishophill link . just how many leeches are sucking on the taxpayer teat around the world you may ask ? common purpose and un agenda 21 seem to be the cover for extortion of taxpayer money the world over.

ICLEI's campaigns, programmes, and projects promote Local Agenda 21 as a participatory, long-term, strategic planning process that addresses local sustainability while protecting global common goods. Linking local action to internationally agreed upon goals and targets such as Agenda 21, the Rio Conventions, the Habitat Agenda, the Millennium Development Goals and the Johannesburg Plan of Implementation is an essential component.

http://www.iclei-europe.org/policy-advocacy/

[turbobloke]

That was Maurice Strong was it not? RIP and all that but what an appalling legacy.

[Mr GrimNasty]

More on UN Green Climate Fund = Slush fund for Mugabe etc.

http://www.thegwpf.com/un-green-climate-fund-is-a-...

[barryrs]

Crush said:

Thanks. I guess with so many non-jobs and money invested in the 'green' sector, it'll take a while to get rid of. A pity that manufacturing industry didn't get the same protection.

On a slightly related topic I have just had a disagreement with my local authority planning officer with regards to a pre start condition and their policy on renewables.

We have to achieve a 10% reduction in the development carbon emissions which I can achieve via high levels of insulation and low carbon technology but they simply won't accept this as we have no renewables. Being a commercial venture I have no choice but to remove the triple glazing, reduce insulation, remove the low carbon technology and throw some PV on the roof.

Complete madness.

[mybrainhurts]

Surprised, I am not. You've done well, one of my customers gave up on a large factory relocation because of tripe like this. It cost him £30,000 to get out.

[Mr Tidy]

I think the title of this thread says it all - the POLITICAL debate!

And that is no doubt all it is, not any form of rational, sensible or practical debate - just another potential tax raising mechanism!

[robinessex]

Limited role' for natural gas in UK future energy mix

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3563...

The use of natural gas for electricity generation in the UK may have to decline significantly over the next 30 years, according to a new study.

Without carbon capture and storage (CCS) technology, gas-fired electricity would have to fall to 10% of the mix to meet emissions targets for 2050.

The new study also warns that current government policies will deter investment in gas.

The report has been published by the UK Energy Research Centre.

When do the lights go out then ?

[The Don of Croy]

barryrs said:

Crush said:

Thanks. I guess with so many non-jobs and money invested in the 'green' sector, it'll take a while to get rid of. A pity that manufacturing industry didn't get the same protection.

On a slightly related topic I have just had a disagreement with my local authority planning officer with regards to a pre start condition and their policy on renewables.

We have to achieve a 10% reduction in the development carbon emissions which I can achieve via high levels of insulation and low carbon technology but they simply won't accept this as we have no renewables. Being a commercial venture I have no choice but to remove the triple glazing, reduce insulation, remove the low carbon technology and throw some PV on the roof.

Complete madness.

A local builder was bemoaning the paperwork involved with any new house (he does just one or two per year - for the last 30+ years), and being advised by Building Regs Officer at the LA to lie on the water usage forms, just like everybody else. Apparently the new regs dictate some minimal water flow to be used in showers that simply does not exist in a commercial context, even though the property will be metered and thus occupier pays according to their usage.

It's madness, but written into national regs and we all pay for this dross somewhere along the line.

[alock]

turbobloke said:

And from one of the greatest scientists in history...

Richard P. Feynman said:

It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIxvQMhttq4

[Crush]

barryrs said:

Crush said:

Thanks. I guess with so many non-jobs and money invested in the 'green' sector, it'll take a while to get rid of. A pity that manufacturing industry didn't get the same protection.

On a slightly related topic I have just had a disagreement with my local authority planning officer with regards to a pre start condition and their policy on renewables.

We have to achieve a 10% reduction in the development carbon emissions which I can achieve via high levels of insulation and low carbon technology but they simply won't accept this as we have no renewables. Being a commercial venture I have no choice but to remove the triple glazing, reduce insulation, remove the low carbon technology and throw some PV on the roof.

Complete madness.

We experience the same nonsense in precision engineering. And they wonder why industry in the UK cannot survive

Oh well, at least the idiots reading the Grauniad can be smug about it eh?

[Mr GrimNasty]

robinessex said:

Limited role' for natural gas in UK future energy mix

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3563...

The use of natural gas for electricity generation in the UK may have to decline significantly over the next 30 years, according to a new study.

Without carbon capture and storage (CCS) technology, gas-fired electricity would have to fall to 10% of the mix to meet emissions targets for 2050.

The new study also warns that current government policies will deter investment in gas.

The report has been published by the UK Energy Research Centre.

When do the lights go out then ?

We know the official 'plan' is to cut off the gas mains and have all cars/transport and homes electric within decades.

The greens can keep deluding themselves all they want - it isn't going to happen.

What is going to happen is a volte-face, and an emergency building program of gas powered power stations to keep the lights on.

[LongQ]

Mr GrimNasty said:

robinessex said:

Limited role' for natural gas in UK future energy mix

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3563...

The use of natural gas for electricity generation in the UK may have to decline significantly over the next 30 years, according to a new study.

Without carbon capture and storage (CCS) technology, gas-fired electricity would have to fall to 10% of the mix to meet emissions targets for 2050.

The new study also warns that current government policies will deter investment in gas.

The report has been published by the UK Energy Research Centre.

When do the lights go out then ?

We know the official 'plan' is to cut off the gas mains and have all cars/transport and homes electric within decades.

The greens can keep deluding themselves all they want - it isn't going to happen.

What is going to happen is a volte-face, and an emergency building program of gas powered power stations to keep the lights on.

If they can keep the delusion strong enough for long enough they might effectively cause the dissolution of the Gas industry as we know it today. At which point what would be easiest - rebuild it or just go for electricity and further "justify" the investment cost for the expensive grid updates that are required for "free" wind generated power distribution (when such an event occurs).

[robinessex]

Climate stirring change beneath the waves

Todays climate change 'victim'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3563...

Human-induced climate change is triggering changes beneath the waves that could have a long-term effect on marine food webs, a study suggests.

An assessment of phytoplankton in the North Atlantic found the microscopic organisms' pole-ward shift was faster than previously reported.

It observed that the ocean's tiny plant community was "poised for marked shift and shuffle".

The findings appear in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

"Marine phytoplankton are crucial in marine food webs and global biogeochemical cycles and they are incredibly diverse but we don't really have a sense of what all the different organisms do when you modify climate, or even through natural climate variability," explained co-author Andrew Barton, a researcher at Princeton University, working at the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory.

He told BBC News: "This study attempted to get a handle on how all these different kinds of organisms may respond to anthropogenic climate change over the coming century."

Ok. We have an 'is' on the first line, followed by a ‘suggest’, and then a sentence that says 'we haven't the foggiest idea.’ Then we have an ‘attempted’ and a ‘may’. I thought the science was settled?

[Mr GrimNasty]

The BBC! After spending loads of air time on the bogus Antarctic penguin mass death story from the ship of fools commander a couple of days ago, repeatedly equating it to climate change, I've yet to see a correction, now that the story has been thoroughly rubbished by proper scientists. Searching the BBC archive, the number of times the same Adelie Penguins have been killed off since 1995 by similar regurgitated stories, it's amazing they aren't already extict.

Other countries are no better it seems. CBC obviously stands for Climate Bull Chite.

http://joannenova.com.au/2016/02/most-canadians-ar...

[Mr GrimNasty]

LongQ said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

robinessex said:

Limited role' for natural gas in UK future energy mix

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3563...

The use of natural gas for electricity generation in the UK may have to decline significantly over the next 30 years, according to a new study.

Without carbon capture and storage (CCS) technology, gas-fired electricity would have to fall to 10% of the mix to meet emissions targets for 2050.

The new study also warns that current government policies will deter investment in gas.

The report has been published by the UK Energy Research Centre.

When do the lights go out then ?

We know the official 'plan' is to cut off the gas mains and have all cars/transport and homes electric within decades.

The greens can keep deluding themselves all they want - it isn't going to happen.

What is going to happen is a volte-face, and an emergency building program of gas powered power stations to keep the lights on.

If they can keep the delusion strong enough for long enough they might effectively cause the dissolution of the Gas industry as we know it today. At which point what would be easiest - rebuild it or just go for electricity and further "justify" the investment cost for the expensive grid updates that are required for "free" wind generated power distribution (when such an event occurs).

With the coal going, the nuclear and tidal projects unlikely to materialise, and only intermittent renewables coming on-line, and large predicted generating shortfalls imminent, it's only gas that can keep the base load up, and that can be built quickly enough. The ste is going to hit the fan in the short term, probably between 1 and 5 years, so I doubt the gas industry will have time to vanish before it suddenly becomes vital and profitable again.

[LongQ]

Mr GrimNasty said:

LongQ said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

robinessex said:

Limited role' for natural gas in UK future energy mix

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3563...

The use of natural gas for electricity generation in the UK may have to decline significantly over the next 30 years, according to a new study.

Without carbon capture and storage (CCS) technology, gas-fired electricity would have to fall to 10% of the mix to meet emissions targets for 2050.

The new study also warns that current government policies will deter investment in gas.

The report has been published by the UK Energy Research Centre.

When do the lights go out then ?

We know the official 'plan' is to cut off the gas mains and have all cars/transport and homes electric within decades.

The greens can keep deluding themselves all they want - it isn't going to happen.

What is going to happen is a volte-face, and an emergency building program of gas powered power stations to keep the lights on.

If they can keep the delusion strong enough for long enough they might effectively cause the dissolution of the Gas industry as we know it today. At which point what would be easiest - rebuild it or just go for electricity and further "justify" the investment cost for the expensive grid updates that are required for "free" wind generated power distribution (when such an event occurs).

With the coal going, the nuclear and tidal projects unlikely to materialise, and only intermittent renewables coming on-line, and large predicted generating shortfalls imminent, it's only gas that can keep the base load up, and that can be built quickly enough. The ste is going to hit the fan in the short term, probably between 1 and 5 years, so I doubt the gas industry will have time to vanish before it suddenly becomes vital and profitable again.

One would hope so.

But then there seems to be no limit to the stupidity that "our leaders" can commit to.

[PRTVR]

Mr GrimNasty said:

LongQ said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

robinessex said:

Limited role' for natural gas in UK future energy mix

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3563...

The use of natural gas for electricity generation in the UK may have to decline significantly over the next 30 years, according to a new study.

Without carbon capture and storage (CCS) technology, gas-fired electricity would have to fall to 10% of the mix to meet emissions targets for 2050.

The new study also warns that current government policies will deter investment in gas.

The report has been published by the UK Energy Research Centre.

When do the lights go out then ?

We know the official 'plan' is to cut off the gas mains and have all cars/transport and homes electric within decades.

The greens can keep deluding themselves all they want - it isn't going to happen.

What is going to happen is a volte-face, and an emergency building program of gas powered power stations to keep the lights on.

If they can keep the delusion strong enough for long enough they might effectively cause the dissolution of the Gas industry as we know it today. At which point what would be easiest - rebuild it or just go for electricity and further "justify" the investment cost for the expensive grid updates that are required for "free" wind generated power distribution (when such an event occurs).

With the coal going, the nuclear and tidal projects unlikely to materialise, and only intermittent renewables coming on-line, and large predicted generating shortfalls imminent, it's only gas that can keep the base load up, and that can be built quickly enough. The ste is going to hit the fan in the short term, probably between 1 and 5 years, so I doubt the gas industry will have time to vanish before it suddenly becomes vital and profitable again.

At the present wind is producing 1.4% gas turbines 42% no real problem getting rid of the gas turbine, just got to think positive, looking at the stars at night will be easier when the lights are all out.

[LongQ]

PRTVR said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

LongQ said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

robinessex said:

Limited role' for natural gas in UK future energy mix

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3563...

The use of natural gas for electricity generation in the UK may have to decline significantly over the next 30 years, according to a new study.

Without carbon capture and storage (CCS) technology, gas-fired electricity would have to fall to 10% of the mix to meet emissions targets for 2050.

The new study also warns that current government policies will deter investment in gas.

The report has been published by the UK Energy Research Centre.

When do the lights go out then ?

We know the official 'plan' is to cut off the gas mains and have all cars/transport and homes electric within decades.

The greens can keep deluding themselves all they want - it isn't going to happen.

What is going to happen is a volte-face, and an emergency building program of gas powered power stations to keep the lights on.

If they can keep the delusion strong enough for long enough they might effectively cause the dissolution of the Gas industry as we know it today. At which point what would be easiest - rebuild it or just go for electricity and further "justify" the investment cost for the expensive grid updates that are required for "free" wind generated power distribution (when such an event occurs).

With the coal going, the nuclear and tidal projects unlikely to materialise, and only intermittent renewables coming on-line, and large predicted generating shortfalls imminent, it's only gas that can keep the base load up, and that can be built quickly enough. The ste is going to hit the fan in the short term, probably between 1 and 5 years, so I doubt the gas industry will have time to vanish before it suddenly becomes vital and profitable again.

At the present wind is producing 1.4% gas turbines 42% no real problem getting rid of the gas turbine, just got to think positive, looking at the stars at night will be easier when the lights are all out.

I like that positive line of thought.

[turbobloke]

Recent headline news snips from the GWPF.

Shale Revolution To Go Global By 2035 (why so long, answers on a postcard)

Global CO2 Emissions To Rise 20% By 2035 - BP (Paris, job well done)

Sea Levels Rising Slower Than Expected - NASA (broken clock gets it right, models get it wrong)

Welsh Village To Sue Government Over ‘Alarmist’ Rising Sea Level Claim (da iawn)