Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 3
Discussion
dickymint said:
Mr. Vince probably needs the cash to pay off his former partner from the 70s - or whenever it we that he was a "traveller".Mind you, that was news from some weeks back. The charges have probably gone up by now.
Should we call them a charge charge?
Edited by LongQ on Friday 5th August 11:25
Hinkley Point C
Private Eye writes:-
WlTH panic written all over their faces, last week EDF rushed to grab the insanely generous electricity contract previously on offer from the government to finance the Hinkley Point nuclear project, fearing it might disappear in a puff of Brexit. The French firm hoped Theresa May's new regime would be equally desperate to be seen as "open for business" - but that was before her ministers poleaxed it with a new pause for "careful consideration". For the benefit of the cameras, EDF planned to commence some ostentatious but meaningless earth-moving works on the Somerset site. It is of course totally unready to begin the serious nuclear construction work - because it hasn't finalised the design. Its existing projects of the same type are beset by grotesque construction failures and regulatory interventions on safety. For two years now it has had a tiny project workforce at Hinkley itself while spending around €60m a month, all of it in France, trying to get the engineering right. But the contract is a one-way bet for EDF there are no penalties on it for failing to deliver, it just wouldn't get paid. So even in its unprepared state it was hoping to sign now and take its chances later. One of the hazards it was reckoning to bluff its way past is the 10 percent fall in sterling post-referendum, and hence in the value of the electricity price on offer. Given that its construction costs are almost all in euros, this alone would wipe out the economics of a project said to be marginal at best. The contract indemnifies EDF against almost everything - but not currency devaluation. But the government has negotiated so badly thus far that perhaps EDF was planning to demand that, too. The importance of Hinkley for France is hard to overstate: it bails out its entire nuclear industry. Some 90 percent of the work, and all the hi-tech aspects, would go to French firms, paid for by British electricity users. EDF has form in this regard: in 2013 it completed a gas-fired power station almost as big as Hinkley at West Burton in Nottinghamshire, in which 100 percent of the engineering contracts (even the concrete) went to non-British firms. No wonder it hoped we were "open for business": and no wonder the government is having second thoughts.
Can't wait for the S**T to hit the fan on this one!!
The Guardian writes :-
Hinkley Point C is not only new energy option, says windfarm developer
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/aug/04/w...
The biggest offshore windfarm developer in Britain has said the country can meet its future energy commitments without the £18bn Hinkley Point C nuclear project.
Henrik Poulsen, chief executive of Dong Energy, said wind turbines could be built on time and on budget, giving the UK a reliable source of power if combined with output from new biomass or gas-fired plants.
Private Eye writes:-
WlTH panic written all over their faces, last week EDF rushed to grab the insanely generous electricity contract previously on offer from the government to finance the Hinkley Point nuclear project, fearing it might disappear in a puff of Brexit. The French firm hoped Theresa May's new regime would be equally desperate to be seen as "open for business" - but that was before her ministers poleaxed it with a new pause for "careful consideration". For the benefit of the cameras, EDF planned to commence some ostentatious but meaningless earth-moving works on the Somerset site. It is of course totally unready to begin the serious nuclear construction work - because it hasn't finalised the design. Its existing projects of the same type are beset by grotesque construction failures and regulatory interventions on safety. For two years now it has had a tiny project workforce at Hinkley itself while spending around €60m a month, all of it in France, trying to get the engineering right. But the contract is a one-way bet for EDF there are no penalties on it for failing to deliver, it just wouldn't get paid. So even in its unprepared state it was hoping to sign now and take its chances later. One of the hazards it was reckoning to bluff its way past is the 10 percent fall in sterling post-referendum, and hence in the value of the electricity price on offer. Given that its construction costs are almost all in euros, this alone would wipe out the economics of a project said to be marginal at best. The contract indemnifies EDF against almost everything - but not currency devaluation. But the government has negotiated so badly thus far that perhaps EDF was planning to demand that, too. The importance of Hinkley for France is hard to overstate: it bails out its entire nuclear industry. Some 90 percent of the work, and all the hi-tech aspects, would go to French firms, paid for by British electricity users. EDF has form in this regard: in 2013 it completed a gas-fired power station almost as big as Hinkley at West Burton in Nottinghamshire, in which 100 percent of the engineering contracts (even the concrete) went to non-British firms. No wonder it hoped we were "open for business": and no wonder the government is having second thoughts.
Can't wait for the S**T to hit the fan on this one!!
The Guardian writes :-
Hinkley Point C is not only new energy option, says windfarm developer
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/aug/04/w...
The biggest offshore windfarm developer in Britain has said the country can meet its future energy commitments without the £18bn Hinkley Point C nuclear project.
Henrik Poulsen, chief executive of Dong Energy, said wind turbines could be built on time and on budget, giving the UK a reliable source of power if combined with output from new biomass or gas-fired plants.
robinessex said:
Henrik Poulsen, chief executive of Dong Energy, said wind turbines could be built on time and on budget, giving the UK a reliable source of power if combined with output from new biomass or gas-fired plants.
Couldn't they just build the gas fired plants and not bother spending the extra on wind? 
robinessex said:
Hinkley Point C
Private Eye writes:-
Stuff ....
Can't wait for the S**T to hit the fan on this one!!
Something related.Private Eye writes:-
Stuff ....
Can't wait for the S**T to hit the fan on this one!!
It has some interesting comments as well - and might be about to get rather contentious.
http://euanmearns.com/nuclear-options/
jshell said:
cb31 said:
Couldn't they just build the gas fired plants and not bother spending the extra on wind?
My company hopes so as they see the future as being very gas orientated!With the Rough storage facility out of action for the winter things could a bit challenging on the gas supply front now that most of the coal plants have been shut down.
LongQ said:
jshell said:
cb31 said:
Couldn't they just build the gas fired plants and not bother spending the extra on wind?
My company hopes so as they see the future as being very gas orientated!With the Rough storage facility out of action for the winter things could a bit challenging on the gas supply front now that most of the coal plants have been shut down.
Greenland recorded a record low July temp. -30.7C at Summit, previous record was -27.7C in 1992.
Unlike the recent Kuwait heat 'record' at a new station that averages nearly 50C this time of year anyway, no inconvenient 90 year records had to be deleted or ignored, to claim this one.
Lots of snow in South Africa highlands recently too, 3 Shepherds dead from cold.
Rare August snow down to 2000m forecast for European Alps.
Arctic above 0C season has about 2 weeks left, been nothing but completely average temperature wise.
Roads blocked by snow in Australia, 2016 Ski season predicted to be 'better than average'.
New Zealand: "The bitter cold snap is set to smash a weather record that has stood for more than a century as an icy chill takes hold of the South Island". Snow expected down to sea level.
(all pictures are recent)
Hottest year on record they tell you.
Unlike the recent Kuwait heat 'record' at a new station that averages nearly 50C this time of year anyway, no inconvenient 90 year records had to be deleted or ignored, to claim this one.
Lots of snow in South Africa highlands recently too, 3 Shepherds dead from cold.
Rare August snow down to 2000m forecast for European Alps.
Arctic above 0C season has about 2 weeks left, been nothing but completely average temperature wise.
Roads blocked by snow in Australia, 2016 Ski season predicted to be 'better than average'.
New Zealand: "The bitter cold snap is set to smash a weather record that has stood for more than a century as an icy chill takes hold of the South Island". Snow expected down to sea level.
(all pictures are recent)
Hottest year on record they tell you.
Todays Beeb CC puff story:-
India climate: What do drowning rhinos and drought tell us?
Answer. NOTHING!!!!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-3698917...
..............."All these examples of extreme weather were widely reported, rightly so. What tended not to be discussed was the underlying cause.
We are all interested in weather; few of us want to be told - once again - that our lifestyles are disrupting the global climate. Yet the truth is that many climatologists believe the monsoon, always fickle, is becoming even more erratic as a result of global warming.
Now, since you've read this far, I hope you'll excuse me if I take a moment to ram my point home a little harder because there is growing evidence that climate change isn't just restricted to South Asia.
Ask anyone who follows the issue and they'll tell you that this year is already well on the way towards becoming the hottest ever. The previous record was last year; before that it was 2014. In fact, the 11 warmest years have occurred since 1998.
I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about the weather, just that we need to talk about the climate too."....................
Funny, no Beeb news about all the places exceptionaly cold at the moment !!
India climate: What do drowning rhinos and drought tell us?
Answer. NOTHING!!!!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-3698917...
..............."All these examples of extreme weather were widely reported, rightly so. What tended not to be discussed was the underlying cause.
We are all interested in weather; few of us want to be told - once again - that our lifestyles are disrupting the global climate. Yet the truth is that many climatologists believe the monsoon, always fickle, is becoming even more erratic as a result of global warming.
Now, since you've read this far, I hope you'll excuse me if I take a moment to ram my point home a little harder because there is growing evidence that climate change isn't just restricted to South Asia.
Ask anyone who follows the issue and they'll tell you that this year is already well on the way towards becoming the hottest ever. The previous record was last year; before that it was 2014. In fact, the 11 warmest years have occurred since 1998.
I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about the weather, just that we need to talk about the climate too."....................
Funny, no Beeb news about all the places exceptionaly cold at the moment !!
'Ask anyone who follows the issue and they'll tell you that this year is already well on the way towards becoming the hottest ever. The previous record was last year; before that it was 2014. In fact, the 11 warmest years have occurred since 1998.'
I hear these kind of statements a lot - what's the skeptic view? Not true, not relevant?
I hear these kind of statements a lot - what's the skeptic view? Not true, not relevant?
DibblyDobbler said:
'Ask anyone who follows the issue and they'll tell you that this year is already well on the way towards becoming the hottest ever. The previous record was last year; before that it was 2014. In fact, the 11 warmest years have occurred since 1998.'
I hear these kind of statements a lot - what's the skeptic view? Not true, not relevant?
Go back through this forum for the answersI hear these kind of statements a lot - what's the skeptic view? Not true, not relevant?
DibblyDobbler said:
'Ask anyone who follows the issue and they'll tell you that this year is already well on the way towards becoming the hottest ever. The previous record was last year; before that it was 2014. In fact, the 11 warmest years have occurred since 1998.'
I hear these kind of statements a lot - what's the skeptic view? Not true, not relevant?
See turbobloke - "we know it's not happening"I hear these kind of statements a lot - what's the skeptic view? Not true, not relevant?
When you know, you know.
plunker said:
DibblyDobbler said:
'Ask anyone who follows the issue and they'll tell you that this year is already well on the way towards becoming the hottest ever. The previous record was last year; before that it was 2014. In fact, the 11 warmest years have occurred since 1998.'
I hear these kind of statements a lot - what's the skeptic view? Not true, not relevant?
See turbobloke - "we know it's not happening"I hear these kind of statements a lot - what's the skeptic view? Not true, not relevant?
When you know, you know.
Manmade global warming isn't happening. There's no visible causal human signal in any global climate data, and I wouldn't ask you to hold your breath waiting for it.
Data diddling is happening.
Records are based on exceptionally short timescales and have no causality attached, these can happen, it's so-what.
Anything else you want sorting, just ask.
turbobloke said:
What isn't happening?
Manmade global warming isn't happening. There's no visible causal human signal in any global climate data, and I wouldn't ask you to hold your breath waiting for it.
Data diddling is happening.
Records are based on exceptionally short timescales and have no causality attached, these can happen, it's so-what.
Anything else you want sorting, just ask.
Thanks TB Manmade global warming isn't happening. There's no visible causal human signal in any global climate data, and I wouldn't ask you to hold your breath waiting for it.
Data diddling is happening.
Records are based on exceptionally short timescales and have no causality attached, these can happen, it's so-what.
Anything else you want sorting, just ask.
So if 'we' (I count myself as a skeptic) are right then the next few years should see an end to the upward trend?
turbobloke said:
What isn't happening?
Manmade global warming isn't happening. There's no visible causal human signal in any global climate data, and I wouldn't ask you to hold your breath waiting for it.
Data diddling is happening.
Records are based on exceptionally short timescales and have no causality attached, these can happen, it's so-what.
Anything else you want sorting, just ask.
So do you think there's global warming, it's just not influenced by people? Or that there isn't actually warming going on? Manmade global warming isn't happening. There's no visible causal human signal in any global climate data, and I wouldn't ask you to hold your breath waiting for it.
Data diddling is happening.
Records are based on exceptionally short timescales and have no causality attached, these can happen, it's so-what.
Anything else you want sorting, just ask.
We constantly see people coming on here and announcing some record snow or cold period in one country shows warming isn't happening. Nobody really comments about it but I thought record weather of most kinds is linked to overall warming?
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