'Jewish patrol cars' in North London

[sleep envy]

Getragdogleg said:

this is stickered patrol cars and uniformed people acting like enforcers.

That's some leap. Where does it suggest that they are acting as enforcers?

[Getragdogleg]

sleep envy said:

Getragdogleg said:

this is stickered patrol cars and uniformed people acting like enforcers.

That's some leap. Where does it suggest that they are acting as enforcers?

What are they doing then ? just cruising around the block and hanging out at corner shops ? If that's the case then why bother.

For clarification I didn't say they were enforcing anything, I said "acting like". There is a difference.

[citizensm1th]

Mr_B said:

Your "perception" was that there was no difference between this fake looking Police car and a community feeling like they need protection, and a shouty bunch of idiots trying to enforce sharia law under a threat to people not of the same faith.
I'm not totally sure your "perception" on this is sensible.

not my perception but a right wing propagandists (bmp/islama fascist)wet dream Christmas Easter and birthday rolled into one big happy package

[anonymous-user]

Justayellowbadge said:

8 years ago the Met had concerns, but now train and work in partnership with them.

I assume your point in posting that was to show has this group have demonstrated their validity to the police.

I posted it because it is an article related to the subject, for others to read should they so wish.

[superkartracer]

NicD said:

In case you see these and wonder wtf

here is the explanation
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2905047/Je...

Is this allowed in the USA? ( Russia/China/Japan/etc )

Private guards ( no issues ) , looking like the official UK police force.... yeah not liking that tbh. Where does it end.

Edited by superkartracer on Sunday 11th January 13:24

[citizensm1th]

Getragdogleg said:

sleep envy said:

Getragdogleg said:

this is stickered patrol cars and uniformed people acting like enforcers.

That's some leap. Where does it suggest that they are acting as enforcers?

What are they doing then ? just cruising around the block and hanging out at corner shops ? If that's the case then why bother.

For clarification I didn't say they were enforcing anything, I said "acting like". There is a difference.

ha! take a look at their twitter feed they are patrolling the streets not just acting as security guards at synagogues and business premises they also hand out crime prevention advice to their community id call that mission creep

[Mr_B]

citizensm1th said:

Mr_B said:

Your "perception" was that there was no difference between this fake looking Police car and a community feeling like they need protection, and a shouty bunch of idiots trying to enforce sharia law under a threat to people not of the same faith.
I'm not totally sure your "perception" on this is sensible.

not my perception but a right wing propagandists (bmp/islama fascist)wet dream Christmas Easter and birthday rolled into one big happy package

You said " this is no different to the so called muslim patrols a short step from vigilante patrols".

[Countdown]

Getragdogleg said:

That helps people who need it, its not telling anyone what to do or not do in "their area".

Its terrible that this community feel they need to Police themselves and protect themselves. This is not like neighbourhood watch with the community looking out for each other, this is stickered patrol cars and uniformed people acting like enforcers.

Its wrong. its going to do more harm than good.

To me it appears exactly like a souped-up neighbourhood watch scheme . Really not seeing what harm they're doing?

[sleep envy]

Getragdogleg said:

What are they doing then ? just cruising around the block and hanging out at corner shops ? If that's the case then why bother.

For clarification I didn't say they were enforcing anything, I said "acting like". There is a difference.

Well, having lived around the area for all my life, but not being Jewish, I can't say with absolute certainty that they don't enforce aspects of their faith.

I can say with 100% certainty I've not seen anything of them acting like enforcers.

Do you have much experience of them living in Cornwall?

For clarity, how does one act like a Jewish enforcer?

[citizensm1th]

Mr_B said:

citizensm1th said:

Mr_B said:

Your "perception" was that there was no difference between this fake looking Police car and a community feeling like they need protection, and a shouty bunch of idiots trying to enforce sharia law under a threat to people not of the same faith.
I'm not totally sure your "perception" on this is sensible.

not my perception but a right wing propagandists (bmp/islama fascist)wet dream Christmas Easter and birthday rolled into one big happy package

You said " this is no different to the so called muslim patrols a short step from vigilante patrols".

I don't see it as any different they are both patrolling the streets and neither are the police

[paranoid airbag]

Countdown said:

Failing to see what the problem is tbh.

They have as much power as the people who ride around on motorbikes/horses wearing POLITE fluorescent vests.

With respect, no, they REALLY don't.

There's an awful lot you can do to someone to make their life hell that is entirely within the law if you interact with all the same people, and those people listen to you above them.

I really can't blame them for wanting to protect their own in the face of attack. But when you say "they're not enforcing their own archaic laws" you really should be adding "...yet". There's nearly as much potential for Jewish nuttery as there is Islamic, it's just geopolitical coincidence that means it's not actualised. Nice right now but circumstances change.

Again I can't find fault (except maybe the batterburg) with this, but this isn't how law and order in the West is supposed to work.

[mph1977]

citizensm1th said:

I don't see it as any different they are both patrolling the streets and neither are the police

and neither are the various 'designated persons' employed by local authorities and private providers ...

[Mr_B]

citizensm1th said:

Mr_B said:

citizensm1th said:

Mr_B said:

Your "perception" was that there was no difference between this fake looking Police car and a community feeling like they need protection, and a shouty bunch of idiots trying to enforce sharia law under a threat to people not of the same faith.
I'm not totally sure your "perception" on this is sensible.

not my perception but a right wing propagandists (bmp/islama fascist)wet dream Christmas Easter and birthday rolled into one big happy package

You said " this is no different to the so called muslim patrols a short step from vigilante patrols".

I don't see it as any different they are both patrolling the streets and neither are the police

If you can't tell the difference I'm not sure pointing it out to you again as others and myself have done, will ever sink in.

[superkartracer]

Countdown said:

Getragdogleg said:

That helps people who need it, its not telling anyone what to do or not do in "their area".

Its terrible that this community feel they need to Police themselves and protect themselves. This is not like neighbourhood watch with the community looking out for each other, this is stickered patrol cars and uniformed people acting like enforcers.

Its wrong. its going to do more harm than good.

To me it appears exactly like a souped-up neighbourhood watch scheme . Really not seeing what harm they're doing?

Are they doing the same in France using cars that look like the National Gendarmerie?

[citizensm1th]

mph1977 said:

citizensm1th said:

I don't see it as any different they are both patrolling the streets and neither are the police

and neither are the various 'designated persons' employed by local authorities and private providers ...

straw man

[Muntu]

paranoid airbag said:

I really can't blame them for wanting to protect their own in the face of attack. But when you say "they're not enforcing their own archaic laws" you really should be adding "...yet". There's nearly as much potential for Jewish nuttery as there is Islamic, it's just geopolitical coincidence that means it's not actualised. Nice right now but circumstances change.

Unless Jewish people start publicly decapitating soldiers in the streets of London, or blowing up people on the Tube or London buses, I would think that you need not be concerned about the "yet" bit

[NicD]

superkartracer said:

Is this allowed in the USA? ( Russia/China/Japan/etc )

Private guards ( no issues ) , looking like the official UK police force.... yeah not liking that tbh. Where does it end.

Edited by superkartracer on Sunday 11th January 13:24

some (not all) from Wiki (so edited by interested parties and not guaranteed to be impartial)

In Brooklyn,[6] Baltimore,[7] and London [8][9] many residents call Shomrim instead of the police due to the former's quicker response time. However, the volunteer patrol has been criticized by the New York City Police Department for not always notifying police when a call comes in.[3] In London however, the Hackney Police Borough Commander Chief Superintendent Matthew Horne complimented Shomrim on this point, saying that "they will generally know when is the time to call us. They don't tend to waste our time and they don't let people go".[10] Additionally, Brooklyn Shomrim organizers have been accused of withholding information on suspected child molesters and other Jewish criminals, in keeping with an interpretation of the Torah prohibition against mesirah (informing on a fellow Jew to the non-Jewish authorities).[11][12][13]

Shomrim and Shmira have on many occasions received awards and commendations from the Police for their work.[

Brooklyn South Shomrim[edit]

A Shomrim patrol emblem/shoulder patch circa 1990's-present.
The Shomrim Brooklyn South Safety Patrol, which covers the neighborhoods of Boro Park, Bensonhurst, and Kensington,[31] was founded in the 1980s by Jacob Daskal.[3] In the beginning the group was known as the "Bakery Boys" as its members were bakers who observed late-night car break-ins in progress.[31] Its command center is located in a tire shop. The dispatchers, owners of the tire shop, receive about 100 calls a day[6] and direct a force of 150 members.[53]

Brooklyn South Shomrim came to international attention as the coordinator of a massive volunteer search for Leiby Kletzky, an 8-year-old Boro Park boy who went missing while walking home from day camp in July 2011; he was later found murdered by a Kensington resident. The Brooklyn South command center alerted other Shomrim patrols in Flatbush, Williamsburg, and Crown Heights, as well as Hasidic communities in Monsey, Monroe, Lawrence, Passaic, and Lakewood, to mobilize up to 5,000 Orthodox Jewish volunteers for a block-by-block search for the missing boy. After police identified the suspect's car from surveillance videos,[54] two Flatbush volunteers searching in nearby Kensington spotted the car;[55] the suspect was apprehended by police shortly after. Later the Brooklyn South Shomrim maintained order at the huge funeral for the victim[6] and outside the parents' home during the week-long shiva period.[55]

Shomrim London, Stamford Hill (UK)[edit]

Stamford Hill Shomrim Logo
The Stamford Hill Shomrim founded in 2008[56] has many volunteers and a 24-hour emergency hotline.[27] Shomrim volunteers undergo training according to Security Industry Authority standards and are CRB checked prior to joining as a volunteer.[27] Members receive ongoing training at Stoke Newington Police Station and are kept updated about new, targeted Police operations in the area.[51] In its first five months of operation, the hotline received 2,000 calls reporting burglaries, thefts, muggings, missing people etc. On average, Stamford Hill Shomrim receives approximately 4500 hotline calls a year,[57] however the members deal with incidents as and when they come across it too.[51] Incoming calls are dispatched to local Shomrim volunteers via two-way radios.[28] While police figures previously showed Stamford Hill to have the lowest crime rate in the borough of Hackney, the presence of Shomrim has revealed that crime was being underreported by the largely Yiddish-speaking Hasidic community.[8]

Stamford Hill Shomrim proactively patrol and operate in North & East London primarily but not exclusively, typically in the N16 E5 and N15 postcodes, generally referred to as Stamford Hill, Upper Clapton and South Tottenham, which includes these wards (wholly or partly) in Hackney & Haringey: Brownswood, Stoke Newington Central, Stamford Hill West, Woodbury Down (formerly Lordship & New River), Springfield, Cazenove, Leabridge, Hackney Downs, Seven Sisters and St. Ann's. On many occasions, especially during searches for High Risk Missing People, Stamford Hill Shomrim members would patrol out of these boundaries.[51]

Stamford Hill Shomrim is currently headed by three Trustees,[58] a Discipline Committee and an Executive Committee elected by its members. Rabbi Kurt Stern MBE[59] and Isaac Kornbluh[60] who are both members of the Hackney Police Independent Advisory Group, act as liaisons between Shomrim and the Police. In 2012, Joe Lobenstein MBE, formerly elected Mayor of Hackney on 4 consecutive elections,[61] was appointed as President of Stamford Hill Shomrim. Shomrim is registered with the Charity Commission as 'Community Safety Patrol' since 2012.[58]

In 2013, after the tragic murder of drummer Lee Rigby, and an increase in Hate Crime towards the wider Muslim Community,[62] Stamford Hill Shomrim offered to help the local Muslim Community and keep a watchful eye on local Mosques and Muslim Community Centres[63][64] which was gratefully welcomed by the North London Muslim Community as stated by 'Eusoof Amerat', a Muslim community advocate in Hackney[65] and commended by Hackney Police Borough Commander.[66] Shomrim also advised the centre on security issues according to 'Munaf Zeena' the chairman of the North London Muslim Community Centre.[65]

This good deed was included in the 2013 annual report on International Religious Freedom and recognised by the US Secretary of State John Kerry in his speech when publishing this report, saying "in London, an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood watch team helped Muslim leaders protect their mosque and prevent future attacks", He continued by saying "they will not receive prizes; they may not ever receive recognition. Their courage goes unremarked, but that makes it all the more remarkable" before finishing "Believe me, that’s the definition of courage".[67]

Stamford Hill Shomrim have on many occasions received public praise from the higher ranks, like on one occasion Metropolitan Police Superintendent David Grainger[29] after a successful double arrest for burglary on the vulnerable,[68] and have received applauds from Deputy Mayor for Policing and Crime Stephen Greenhalgh.[57] And most recently in June 2014 Stamford Hill Shomrim received a formal commendation award from the outgoing Hackney Police Borough Commander - Chief Superintendent Matthew Horne.[14][69]

In August 2014, Stamford Hill Shomrim organised its first annual Community Engagement Event where an estimated six thousand people participated,[70] for advice on crime prevention[71] and bike marking.[72]

Shomrim London NW (UK)[edit]
Shomrim London North West Community Patrol was founded by Gary Ost in 2008. Shomrim London NW is a non profit registered charity[73] which operates as "mobile neighborhood watch" and acts as eyes and ears to the local Community & the Metropolitan Police.[74] Volunteer Patrol members patrol the streets of Golders Green, Childs Hill, Hendon, Finchley and Temple Fortune whereby members report crime to the Metropolitan Police. At least 2 vehicles patrol the area every night.

Shomrim London NW operate a 24 hour emergency response team which will dispatch units to a scene of an emergency[75] and will liaise with the other responding emergency services. Volunteers are in radio contact, and dispatched via a central dispatcher.

Shomrim London NW has the capability to deal with various scenarios including the locating of missing persons[76] and protocols are in place for full scale searches with Stamford Hill Shomrim & North West London Shomrim working in partnership. All volunteers have completed training from the Metropolitan Police Counter Terrorism Command (SO15) in assisting to identify potential security threats and suspicious activity.

The Jewish Rabbinate in London have thanked Shomrim London NW for the dedication of its volunteers and for providing a valuable service in enhancing the quality of life within the Jewish neighborhood.[77] Shomrim London NW also acts as a liaison between the North West London community and the Metropolitan Police.[78]

Ost, chief executive of Shomrim North-West London feels that reporting rates have increased[74] in the borough of Barnet due to Shomrim's presence there and their work became doubly important during the London riots in July 2011[79]

[citizensm1th]

Mr_B said:

citizensm1th said:

Mr_B said:

citizensm1th said:

Mr_B said:

Your "perception" was that there was no difference between this fake looking Police car and a community feeling like they need protection, and a shouty bunch of idiots trying to enforce sharia law under a threat to people not of the same faith.
I'm not totally sure your "perception" on this is sensible.

not my perception but a right wing propagandists (bmp/islama fascist)wet dream Christmas Easter and birthday rolled into one big happy package

You said " this is no different to the so called muslim patrols a short step from vigilante patrols".

I don't see it as any different they are both patrolling the streets and neither are the police

If you can't tell the difference I'm not sure pointing it out to you again as others and myself have done, will ever sink in.

pot and kettle if you cant see that handing ammunition like this to people who want to cause division in our society is a bad thing the circle will never be broken

Let alone that this is the first step towards privatised policing in the uk

[Getragdogleg]

sleep envy said:

Getragdogleg said:

What are they doing then ? just cruising around the block and hanging out at corner shops ? If that's the case then why bother.

For clarification I didn't say they were enforcing anything, I said "acting like". There is a difference.

Well, having lived around the area for all my life, but not being Jewish, I can't say with absolute certainty that they don't enforce aspects of their faith.

I can say with 100% certainty I've not seen anything of them acting like enforcers.

Do you have much experience of them living in Cornwall?

For clarity, how does one act like a Jewish enforcer?

Thanks for the implication but please don't think that because I live in Cornwall I am some tractor driving hick who has no idea how the big city works.

My point is simple my position on this is simple too. I don't like it, I think the real Police should be doing the Policing and this is a very dangerous path to be going down. If we want to all live together and get along we need to operate under one set of rules. This is how it mostly works now.

Scope creep is a very real danger here. today it may well just be a patrol but in a year or two will they be given stop and search powers ? How about arrest ?

The liveried car is the warning sign to me, I get the impression this group feel they are important enough to show off their positions and advertise. What next ? what other group could operate like this as a result or reaction to this lot ?

I know its a lot of "what ifs" but people are s to each other and this may well give someone a good excuse to be bigger .

[superkartracer]

NicD said:

superkartracer said:

Is this allowed in the USA? ( Russia/China/Japan/etc )

Private guards ( no issues ) , looking like the official UK police force.... yeah not liking that tbh. Where does it end.

Edited by superkartracer on Sunday 11th January 13:24

interesting stuff cheers

^^ whats wrong with calling 999 ?




Looks similar to the Brooklyn cars.