I Am Not Charlie Hebdo
Discussion
Liokault said:
otolith said:
"Je suis Charie" does not mean "I'm in favour of publishing offensive cartoons of Muhammad". It means "I'm in favour of freedom of expression".
I take it as "I endorse the publications of Charlie".trashbat said:
otolith said:
It has been argued that many people outside France completely fail to understand the context of the "racist" cartoons.
http://67-tardis-street.tumblr.com/post/1075899558...
That might work, except for at least one incident where they accused themselves, e.g.http://67-tardis-street.tumblr.com/post/1075899558...
http://www.worldbulletin.net/news/152585/charlie-h...
"The only people we hate more than the Romans are the f**king Judean People's Front"
otolith said:
"Je suis Charie" does not mean "I'm in favour of publishing offensive cartoons of Muhammad". It means "I'm in favour of freedom of expression".
I think the Hashtag 'Je Suis Ahmed' says that far better, he has to be the very definition of 'I may disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it' because he did and he did.No one deserves to be shot for a drawing, I do think some of the things they did were for the sake of being offensive rather than anything else and if we were having this discussion 2 weeks ago they probably wouldn't be been held up as the bastions for Free Speech that they are now.
'The Pen is mightier than the Sword'. Helen Mirren wears a Fountain Pen as a broach to a drama awards event.
The Snooper's Charter will get pushed in the next parliament and Snooper's Charter Lite will be discussed this week. The killers in Paris were on the radar. The killers of Drummer Lee Rigby were on the radar. The 7 July London bombers were on the radar. It's been reported these killers in Paris were thought too old. The 7 July bombers were deemed jihadi tourists and small time Fraudsters. Perhaps they thought the fraud was to fund their jihadi holidays?
Never had a Public Inquiry into the 7 July bombings did we?
Was that because of the religion and multi culturalism angle?
What are the authorities going to do with more data when they can't deal with the information they already have?
Cancer Doctor in Cambs. fiddling with kids. Was on the radar having bought stuff online of kiddie porn, a lead from Canada. A few months later the Canadians phone up 'What's going on with those leads we gave you'? Errr....So if the police had actioned those leads perhaps the Cancer specialist in Cambs. may have fiddled with a few less boys that were seeing him to be cured, not conquered.
The Council in Rotherham took out High Court injunctions against The Times for exposing what was going on in Rotherham.
What's the difference between these killers getting cross about some cartoons and the people in the Council at Rotherham spending public money to try to keep The Times from exposing what was going on in Rotherham?
The new Press Regulator IPSO pre-judging the Brooks Newmark MP Tweets. Harvard MBA, Brooks Newmark MP feels 'raped'? Not a young kid in Rotherham is he? Where does a Press Regulator getting uppity about that without having all the facts sit with the Council in Rotherham wanting to use an Injunction to hide the truth?
'Snooper's Charter. If you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide', they reassuringly say. And anyway, it's to protect the public from Paedophiles and Terrorists.
Standard was a car brand decades ago. Most have rotted away by now, a bit like our standards.
The Snooper's Charter will get pushed in the next parliament and Snooper's Charter Lite will be discussed this week. The killers in Paris were on the radar. The killers of Drummer Lee Rigby were on the radar. The 7 July London bombers were on the radar. It's been reported these killers in Paris were thought too old. The 7 July bombers were deemed jihadi tourists and small time Fraudsters. Perhaps they thought the fraud was to fund their jihadi holidays?
Never had a Public Inquiry into the 7 July bombings did we?
Was that because of the religion and multi culturalism angle?
What are the authorities going to do with more data when they can't deal with the information they already have?
Cancer Doctor in Cambs. fiddling with kids. Was on the radar having bought stuff online of kiddie porn, a lead from Canada. A few months later the Canadians phone up 'What's going on with those leads we gave you'? Errr....So if the police had actioned those leads perhaps the Cancer specialist in Cambs. may have fiddled with a few less boys that were seeing him to be cured, not conquered.
The Council in Rotherham took out High Court injunctions against The Times for exposing what was going on in Rotherham.
What's the difference between these killers getting cross about some cartoons and the people in the Council at Rotherham spending public money to try to keep The Times from exposing what was going on in Rotherham?
The new Press Regulator IPSO pre-judging the Brooks Newmark MP Tweets. Harvard MBA, Brooks Newmark MP feels 'raped'? Not a young kid in Rotherham is he? Where does a Press Regulator getting uppity about that without having all the facts sit with the Council in Rotherham wanting to use an Injunction to hide the truth?
'Snooper's Charter. If you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide', they reassuringly say. And anyway, it's to protect the public from Paedophiles and Terrorists.
Standard was a car brand decades ago. Most have rotted away by now, a bit like our standards.
Edited by carinaman on Monday 12th January 12:01
andoverben said:
otolith said:
"Je suis Charie" does not mean "I'm in favour of publishing offensive cartoons of Muhammad". It means "I'm in favour of freedom of expression".
I think the Hashtag 'Je Suis Ahmed' says that far better, he has to be the very definition of 'I may disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it' because he did and he did.No one deserves to be shot for a drawing, I do think some of the things they did were for the sake of being offensive rather than anything else and if we were having this discussion 2 weeks ago they probably wouldn't be been held up as the bastions for Free Speech that they are now.
Liokault said:
I do think that if I put a picture of Mohammed naked and bent over, with a star over his anus and the caption "another star is born" on a car, a broken windscreen wouldn't be a surprising response. frankly, I would expect a similar response if it was a bent over Jesus.
Yes, I too have a low expectation for the religious to act in a civilized manner.andoverben said:
I think the Hashtag 'Je Suis Ahmed' says that far better, he has to be the very definition of 'I may disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it' because he did and he did.
No one deserves to be shot for a drawing, I do think some of the things they did were for the sake of being offensive rather than anything else and if we were having this discussion 2 weeks ago they probably wouldn't be been held up as the bastions for Free Speech that they are now.
From stuff in the media yesterday they said that Charlie Hebdo was on the cutting edge of nastiness and provocation. No one deserves to be shot for a drawing, I do think some of the things they did were for the sake of being offensive rather than anything else and if we were having this discussion 2 weeks ago they probably wouldn't be been held up as the bastions for Free Speech that they are now.
They also said that the largest part of France that's embraced different religions and difference is the French Military. They said the French military has more Imams than French civil society. That's a throw back to the French foreign legion? It's a bit American? Serve with the US Marines and get US citizenship?
But on Any Questions on Friday night someone made the point that it's someone's right to take offence. That doesn't extend as far as to prevent someone from offending you. Perhaps that's where we've gone wrong with political correctness.
Where does that sit with the police and the Fools and Horses tribute Reliant with the inflated Blow Up doll in the back window getting done under Section 5 Public Order Act. That Blow Up doll could have offended someone?
'Someone could take offence'? Better not do anything then. And anyway won't some always find an excuse or reason to take offence? 'Excuse Culture'? 'Blame Culture'? And how much taxpayer's money is wasted in the public sector and charity 'partners' sector, having policies and training on that stuff that's ignored?
Charlie Hebdo prints some nasty stuff that pokes fun at my religion? Don't buy it then. Do public libraries in France carry Charlie Hebdo?
Charlie Hebdo sold 45,000 copies a week. Pretty easy to avoid then. You'd have to make an effort to get your hands on a copy.
'Someone could take offence if I overtake, so I better not overtake.....
Edited by carinaman on Monday 12th January 12:28
I had to laugh at silly hypocritical little Enda Kelly, the Irish premier. There he was, proudly attending the Je Suis Charlie march...
Ireland, of course, still has blasphemy laws and could have (and probably would have) prosecuted if Hebdo had been published in the Republic.
Still, the UK is no better. Last time Hebdo got into trouble for such cartoons, just one website (Buzzfeed IIRC?) in the UK dared publish a link to Hebdo on their website. Inspector Knacker was down on them like a ton of bricks, on an "inciting religious hatred" rap.
It's what you expect in this spineless country but I'd expect better in a country like Ireland, born of oppression.
Ireland, of course, still has blasphemy laws and could have (and probably would have) prosecuted if Hebdo had been published in the Republic.
Still, the UK is no better. Last time Hebdo got into trouble for such cartoons, just one website (Buzzfeed IIRC?) in the UK dared publish a link to Hebdo on their website. Inspector Knacker was down on them like a ton of bricks, on an "inciting religious hatred" rap.
It's what you expect in this spineless country but I'd expect better in a country like Ireland, born of oppression.
IainT said:
Liokault said:
I do think that if I put a picture of Mohammed naked and bent over, with a star over his anus and the caption "another star is born" on a car, a broken windscreen wouldn't be a surprising response. frankly, I would expect a similar response if it was a bent over Jesus.
Yes, I too have a low expectation for the religious to act in a civilized manner.carinaman said:
'The Pen is mightier than the Sword'. Helen Mirren wears a Fountain Pen as a broach to a drama awards event.
The Snooper's Charter will get pushed in the next parliament and Snooper's Charter Lite will be discussed this week. The killers in Paris were on the radar. The killers of Drummer Lee Rigby were on the radar. The 7 July London bombers were on the radar. It's been reported these killers in Paris were thought too old. The 7 July bombers were deemed jihadi tourists and small time Fraudsters. Perhaps they thought the fraud was to fund their jihadi holidays?
Never had a Public Inquiry into the 7 July bombings did we?
Was that because of the religion and multi culturalism angle?
What are the authorities going to do with more data when they can't deal with the information they already have?
Cancer Doctor in Cambs. fiddling with kids. Was on the radar having bought stuff online of kiddie porn, a lead from Canada. A few months later the Canadians phone up 'What's going on with those leads we gave you'? Errr....So if the police had actioned those leads perhaps the Cancer specialist in Cambs. may have fiddled with a few less boys that were seeing him to be cured, not conquered.
The Council in Rotherham took out High Court injunctions against The Times for exposing what was going on in Rotherham.
What's the difference between these killers getting cross about some cartoons and the people in the Council at Rotherham spending public money to try to keep The Times from exposing what was going on in Rotherham?
The new Press Regulator IPSO pre-judging the Brooks Newmark MP Tweets. Harvard MBA, Brooks Newmark MP feels 'raped'? Not a young kid in Rotherham is he? Where does a Press Regulator getting uppity about that without having all the facts sit with the Council in Rotherham wanting to use an Injunction to hide the truth?
'Snooper's Charter. If you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide', they reassuringly say. And anyway, it's to protect the public from Paedophiles and Terrorists.
Standard was a car brand decades ago. Most have rotted away by now, a bit like our standards.
Top post!The Snooper's Charter will get pushed in the next parliament and Snooper's Charter Lite will be discussed this week. The killers in Paris were on the radar. The killers of Drummer Lee Rigby were on the radar. The 7 July London bombers were on the radar. It's been reported these killers in Paris were thought too old. The 7 July bombers were deemed jihadi tourists and small time Fraudsters. Perhaps they thought the fraud was to fund their jihadi holidays?
Never had a Public Inquiry into the 7 July bombings did we?
Was that because of the religion and multi culturalism angle?
What are the authorities going to do with more data when they can't deal with the information they already have?
Cancer Doctor in Cambs. fiddling with kids. Was on the radar having bought stuff online of kiddie porn, a lead from Canada. A few months later the Canadians phone up 'What's going on with those leads we gave you'? Errr....So if the police had actioned those leads perhaps the Cancer specialist in Cambs. may have fiddled with a few less boys that were seeing him to be cured, not conquered.
The Council in Rotherham took out High Court injunctions against The Times for exposing what was going on in Rotherham.
What's the difference between these killers getting cross about some cartoons and the people in the Council at Rotherham spending public money to try to keep The Times from exposing what was going on in Rotherham?
The new Press Regulator IPSO pre-judging the Brooks Newmark MP Tweets. Harvard MBA, Brooks Newmark MP feels 'raped'? Not a young kid in Rotherham is he? Where does a Press Regulator getting uppity about that without having all the facts sit with the Council in Rotherham wanting to use an Injunction to hide the truth?
'Snooper's Charter. If you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide', they reassuringly say. And anyway, it's to protect the public from Paedophiles and Terrorists.
Standard was a car brand decades ago. Most have rotted away by now, a bit like our standards.
Edited by carinaman on Monday 12th January 12:01
All that will happen after the tragic events in France is that yours and my 'freedoms' will be restricted more, not less.
It will be put to you that it/they are insignificant restrictions and worthwhile in order to prevent another atrocity.
Remember, 'they' know 'those' who are a threat. Tells you everything.
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