Do GCHQ/MI5 etc need more powers to fight terrorism?

[paranoid airbag]

steveT350C said:

@musalbas: ISIS guy 1: I know, let's use cryptography to hide our messages!
ISIS guy 2: We can't, it's against the law in the UK.
ISIS guy 1: Oh, OK.

Whilst this isn't an original joke (indeed encryption parallels in many ways the 2nd amendment debate, so it's very old indeed...)



I really do wonder, how does ANYONE trust a politician after they say something so incredibly stupid? As an honest question to others. How does it not completely and utterly tear their credibility into shreds, to the point where you may as well pick a chimpanzee picking policies out of a hat?

RobinOakapple said:

It takes at least 4 people in shifts to watch 1 person around the clock, and that's before holidays, illness etc. Plus they would need cars, communication, central control etc. It's no wonder that so few people get watched full time, it would simply cost too much.

And that is pretty much the sole thing protecting democratic discourse. Really. Almost nothing else matters, not free speech laws, which are pieces of paper, not even the vote (which matters, but not that much, especially by itself), but the fact it simply isn't logistically possible for a government to identify and prosecute (EVERYONE is guilty of some offense) all the potential troublemakers.

[MrBrightSi]

paranoid airbag said:

And that is pretty much the sole thing protecting democratic discourse. Really. Almost nothing else matters, not free speech laws, which are pieces of paper, not even the vote (which matters, but not that much, especially by itself), but the fact it simply isn't logistically possible for a government to identify and prosecute (EVERYONE is guilty of some offense) all the potential troublemakers.

But this is airstrip one everyone will have their time to be judged soon.

I don't want to echo anyone else so i'll just bullet point it

Already had info on various terrorists yet did nothing.
Nothing to hide nothing to fear is a bullst argument.
Whistleblowers showing powers that be abuse said power
Council pen pushers using this to pry on you (MY GODS)

[Tonsko]

Oh god. Nothing to hide/nothing to fear. It's some of the weakest, most flimsy nonsense ever trotted out.

[carinaman]

We need to deny the terrorists the safe space of the Internet and Social Media?

DARPA funded the Internet research as they were interested in a resilient network for military use. So no surprise that that is what it's being used for.

We went into Afghanistan to deny them the territory, a safe haven to plan and prepare attacks from?

But we gifted them a riskier safe haven to plan prepare attacks when we toppled Saddam without any plans or thoughts about what would be in place after he was gone.

A glimmer of hope is working besides the Iranians to deal with IS/Islamic State in Northern Iraq/Syria?

Edited by carinaman on Thursday 15th January 16:18

[carinaman]

It seems Barrack Obama is less keen than CMD on New Labour's Snooper's Charter. Perhaps he's a Guardian reader?

[audidoody]

I'm predicting an armed police force here within two years.

[carinaman]

audidoody said:

I'm predicting an armed police force here within two years.

As someone said in the Paris shooting thread, a pistol Vs AK47 isn't much of a fair fight. So they'll have to have assault rifles? Europe is awash with ex-military kit. Someone posted that AK47s have been used in robberies in Sweden.

They've shown they can't deal with the information they already have and are given, so how will they cope with more data? As an auidence member said on QT lastnight, they can't track the people they are aware of so the money would be better spent on human resources to track those that represent a threat.

Edited by carinaman on Friday 16th January 22:23

[Don]

paranoid airbag said:

[
I really do wonder, how does ANYONE trust a politician after they say something so incredibly stupid? As an honest question to others. How does it not completely and utterly tear their credibility into shreds, to the point where you may as well pick a chimpanzee picking policies out of a hat?

It is, indeed, incredibly disappointing to hear utter bks like this from the PM. You would have thought he would have had access to better advisers. Apparently not.

As a friend of mine put it: "Humanities graduates without the decency to ask if you want fries with that."

[Guybrush]

I've a hunch that if baddies thought they were being eavesdropped, they may use another method of communication, while the honest would be compromised by this. Just a thought.

[p1esk]

Guybrush said:

I've a hunch that if baddies thought they were being eavesdropped, they may use another method of communication, while the honest would be compromised by this. Just a thought.

Well if you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear.

No, I don't buy that either. I agree with you.

[mondeoman]

Its the first rung: first they want the ability to snoop on everyone, next will come a sneaky little law allowing them to lock you up on "suspicion" or to "stop a threat", which will come from, yep, online snooping by software.
Its how they work, mis-direction and totalitarian control.

I never thought I'd see the day when a Conservative PM was so far away from my understanding of conservatism.

[Martin4x4]

No. It is our freedoms that makes our society robust to threat of terrorism.

To weaken our liberty, weakens our defence.

[marshalla]

Guybrush said:

I've a hunch that if baddies thought they were being eavesdropped, they may use another method of communication, while the honest would be compromised by this. Just a thought.

The badgers fly south at midnight.
Weasel is in the hole.
Martha, martha, will ye no' come back again ?
Samsung are offering to buy Blackberry, in spite of denials from all parties.
We must keep oil prices low to cripple the western economies.


(for example)

Edited by marshalla on Saturday 17th January 10:33

[Tonsko]

Well, it looks as though they will get them. Unless enough Lords sit up and take notice over the weekend.

Blair and 3 other fkers have tabled an amendment that will contain the Communications and Data Bill onto the Counter Terrorism Bill

https://act.eff.org/action/tell-britain-s-lords-do...

[marshalla]

p1esk said:

Well if you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear.

No, I don't buy that either. I agree with you.

Nothing to fear, nothing to hide is more like it.

[carinaman]

Tonsko said:

Well, it looks as though they will get them. Unless enough Lords sit up and take notice over the weekend.

Blair and 3 other fkers have tabled an amendment that will contain the Communications and Data Bill onto the Counter Terrorism Bill

https://act.eff.org/action/tell-britain-s-lords-do...

Will this be in the mainstream news tomorrow?

[Tonsko]

carinaman said:

Will this be in the mainstream news tomorrow?

Unlikely. It was in the Graun yesterday or this morning, if that's what you mean by MSM.

[carinaman]

Tonsko said:

Unlikely. It was in the Graun yesterday or this morning, if that's what you mean by MSM.

Thank you, I've just found it by googling. Thank you for the heads up.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/22/sno...

Will there be any backlash at the polls in May if they get away with this?

[Tonsko]

carinaman said:

Thank you, I've just found it by googling. Thank you for the heads up.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/22/sno...

Will there be any backlash at the polls in May if they get away with this?

Probably not. Only 33% of the electorate ever turn up really.

[Troubleatmill]

"Do GCHQ/MI5 etc need more powers to fight terrorism?"

I have no idea.
I am more inclined to believe GCHQ heads than politicians though.

And... I'd prefer that our spooks do not need to explain to every citizen exactly what it is that they need to monitor. ( Because... the bad guys then know what mediums to avoid )
Give them licence to do their job.

Let's be honest.... they aren't really going to be allocating resource to monitoring the latest "What Car.." threads on PH.