Saudi Arabia - should we do business with them?

[glazbagun]

Canada seems to be the only ones with the balance of interests balls to not care too much about SA. Having a ton of oil probably helps. IIRC, they took in the wife of Raef Badawi (sentenced to 10 years and 1000 lashes, and his lawyer was jailed15 years for starting an organisation monitoring human rights in Saudi) in, too.

[BlackLabel]

What a great idea this would be. What could possibly go wrong.

beeb said:

The US is rushing to transfer sensitive nuclear power technology to Saudi Arabia, according to a new congressional report.
A Democrat-led House panel has launched an inquiry over concerns about the White House plan to build nuclear reactors across the kingdom.
Whistleblowers told the panel it could destabilise the Middle East by boosting nuclear weapon proliferation.
Firms linked to the president have reportedly pushed for these transfers.

beeb said:

Previous negotiations for US nuclear technology ended after Saudi Arabia refused to agree to safeguards against using the tech for weaponry, but the Trump administration may not see these safeguards as mandatory, ProPublica reported.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47296641

[Tryke3]

You dont want to arm the arabs with nuclear weapons, they already got a chip on their shoulder and in fact are worse than ISIS

[Talksteer]

BlackLabel said:

What a great idea this would be. What could possibly go wrong.

beeb said:

The US is rushing to transfer sensitive nuclear power technology to Saudi Arabia, according to a new congressional report.
A Democrat-led House panel has launched an inquiry over concerns about the White House plan to build nuclear reactors across the kingdom.
Whistleblowers told the panel it could destabilise the Middle East by boosting nuclear weapon proliferation.
Firms linked to the president have reportedly pushed for these transfers.

beeb said:

Previous negotiations for US nuclear technology ended after Saudi Arabia refused to agree to safeguards against using the tech for weaponry, but the Trump administration may not see these safeguards as mandatory, ProPublica reported.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47296641

From my understanding the US has never offered to sell enrichment technology to the Saudis. The reactors would be useless in proliferation terms as they are PWRs.

The enrichment technology and facilities would be needed to make a U235 bomb.

[dudleybloke]

They already have access to nuclear weapons through Pakistan as they paid A,Q Khan and his network to build the Pakistan nuclear program.

[Countdown]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/24/saudi-arabia-behea...

Our elected leaders seem strangely silent.......

[amusingduck]

Countdown said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/24/saudi-arabia-behea...

Our elected leaders seem strangely silent.......

cnbc said:

It also publicly pinned the executed body and severed head of a convicted Sunni extremist to a pole as a warning to others.

Nice.

[anonymous-user]

I thought of this thread earlier this year when I was offered a contract from a Saudi organisation to design a training programme for how to service and maintain heavy plant and generators.

I am a director but not particularly powerful or rich, so thought about it for about 15 seconds before accepting. Interesting project and it turns out my morals are more grey than black & white.

[Tryke3]

Vandenberg said:

I thought of this thread earlier this year when I was offered a contract from a Saudi organisation to design a training programme for how to service and maintain heavy plant and generators.

I am a director but not particularly powerful or rich, so thought about it for about 15 seconds before accepting. Interesting project and it turns out my morals are more grey than black & white.

This is the problem with everything in life but im sure you will enjoy your 8 months detention and 15 lashes for having a glass of wine on the plane prior to landing in SA

[IanH755]

Vandenberg said:

I thought of this thread earlier this year when I was offered a contract from a Saudi organisation to design a training programme for how to service and maintain heavy plant and generators.

I am a director but not particularly powerful or rich, so thought about it for about 15 seconds before accepting. Interesting project and it turns out my morals are more grey than black & white.

Having lived and worked alongside Saudis as an Electronics Instructor for a few years now, believe me I'm not saying this without experience, but don't expect to do much actual training of the locals, only around 5% of them are at a "peer level" to UK trainees, the rest will be there physically (occasionally) but not mentally, usually as "maintenance" is a low caste thing to do, compared to just buying new when something breaks, so most main-type folks also run other businesses like shops etc for the family.

Any form of fault finding is an alien concept as doing thing by rote is the main way they've been taught since birth so unless there's a book with the exact answer for the problem in front of them they don't even know how to begin.

However that 5% are willing to learn, can think for themselves and are willing to put the effort in.

[anonymous-user]

IanH755 said:

Having lived and worked alongside Saudis as an Electronics Instructor for a few years now, believe me I'm not saying this without experience, but don't expect to do much actual training of the locals, only around 5% of them are at a "peer level" to UK trainees, the rest will be there physically (occasionally) but not mentally, usually as "maintenance" is a low caste thing to do, compared to just buying new when something breaks, so most main-type folks also run other businesses like shops etc for the family.

Any form of fault finding is an alien concept as doing thing by rote is the main way they've been taught since birth so unless there's a book with the exact answer for the problem in front of them they don't even know how to begin.

However that 5% are willing to learn, can think for themselves and are willing to put the effort in.

Thanks for that, your comments echo my analysis, hence me chucking in a load of GCSE level physics, maths and chemistry content to give them the background info, long before they are let loose on kit that could kill them and very much If A happens do B, If C happens do D. A bit like Noddy does Heavy Plant maintenance.

I should add its mainly e-learning content backed up by some face to face, hand-on assessments, I am designing the learning and the assessments and another guy is doing the face to face bit, so I don't have to go to Saudi and will miss out on the lashes.

[GT03ROB]

Vandenberg said:

...........it turns out my morals are more grey than black & white.

Having black & white morals in a murky grey world, will place you at grave risk of not being able to do very much.

[Penelope Stopit]

Silence when there's money being made
When will countries start pulling out of the big business deals?
Perhaps when the oil money dries up they will suffer for their crimes


Edit
Ah theres no problem with this
The UN have condemned it
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2019/04/24...


No peace for the murdered

Edited by Penelope Stopit on Thursday 25th April 21:07

[Penelope Stopit]

Earlier, Trump informs us of the Iran threat and ups the USA military presence in the Middle east

Now, Trump approves massive Saudi arms deal

You couldn't make it up yet Trump is doing it

[Fittster]

UK arms sales to Saudi Arabia unlawful, court rules

"International Trade Secretary Liam Fox said the government would not grant any new licences for export to Saudi Arabia and its coalition partners while it considers the implications of the judgment.

A spokeswoman for Prime Minister Theresa May said the government was "disappointed" and would be seeking permission to appeal against the judgment.

Under UK export policy, military equipment licences should not be granted if there is a "clear risk" that weapons might be used in a "serious violation of international humanitarian law"

[mickytruelove]

But the new Saudi prince paid millions on PR to appear lovely and a new Saudi image.. not killing journalists ect.

Watched this the other day and its pretty clear other in Europe are guilty of "lets make money, fk the kids in Yemen"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkUv2R97I-Y

[Penelope Stopit]

mickytruelove said:

But the new Saudi prince paid millions on PR to appear lovely and a new Saudi image.. not killing journalists ect.

Watched this the other day and its pretty clear other in Europe are guilty of "lets make money, fk the kids in Yemen"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkUv2R97I-Y

BBC World News hardly ever mentions what's happening in Yemen, the so called threat from Iran is often mentioned

What a shower of............

[Halb]

JUst seen this on the beeb.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48704596
NO point in a new thread

[andy_s]

Courtesy Byker28i:

Byker28i said:

The Senate has voted to block the sale of billions of dollars of munitions to Saudi Arabia, in a sharp and bipartisan rebuke of the Trump admin's attempt to circumvent Congress to allow the exports by declaring a national emergency over Iran.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/20/us/politics/sau...

[PorkRind]

TKF said:

el stovey said:

TKF said:

GT03ROB said:

You won't be left with many business partners...... enjoy your utopia.

Exactly. Some people are very naive when it comes to the world outside their village.

It's not really naive, it's just that the UK through foreign policy has to depend on many business partners that other countries with more diverse economies and less dependence on middle east oil, don't need to rely on.

There are plenty of other modern western democracies like Norway, Sweden or Denmark that don't have the same links to these dictatorships that the UK has.

Norway has one of the least diverse economies. 50% services and 25% oil.

Regardless, it's naive to ask "Should we just stop doing business with Saudi?"

What's the other 25%? Pickled fish?