Saudi Arabia - should we do business with them?
Poll: Saudi Arabia - should we do business with them?
Total Members Polled: 573
Discussion
I think you have to be pragmatic, they do possess vast petroleum reserves and if the UK stopped buying their oil the global supply/demand would just displace the same volume with negligable change for either country. Also who else are you going to buy from that is going to meet ethical criteria.
Still only massive idiots would empower such a country by selling military equipment to them. That would not be a situation you could use pragmatism as a moral mitigant.
Still only massive idiots would empower such a country by selling military equipment to them. That would not be a situation you could use pragmatism as a moral mitigant.
Due to execute a poet and up to another 50 people soon, Saudi Arabia want to sue Twitter users for comparing them to ISIS.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/1001764/suemesaudi-goe...
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23SueMeSaudi&src...
http://tribune.com.pk/story/1001764/suemesaudi-goe...
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23SueMeSaudi&src...
Edited by FourWheelDrift on Tuesday 1st December 16:24
I realise the benefits of doing business with them however it still saddens me that we have to deal with such a cruel, corrupt and vile group of people in the House of Saud.
Comparing them to ISIS is inaccurate however it does make me happy to live in the UK which is a relative nirvana in comparison - threatened unfortunately by Saudi's sponsorship of terrorist organisations such as ISIS.
Comparing them to ISIS is inaccurate however it does make me happy to live in the UK which is a relative nirvana in comparison - threatened unfortunately by Saudi's sponsorship of terrorist organisations such as ISIS.
FourWheelDrift said:
Due to execute a poet and up to another 50 people soon, Saudi Arabia want to sue Twitter users for comparing them to ISIS.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/1001764/suemesaudi-goe...
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23SueMeSaudi&src...
As a rule, I don't use twotter, but I now am gonna. http://tribune.com.pk/story/1001764/suemesaudi-goe...
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23SueMeSaudi&src...
Edited by FourWheelDrift on Tuesday 1st December 16:24
Well done to Merkel's deputy for speaking out.
When Sweden’s foreign minister, earlier this year, denounced the flogging of a Saudi blogger as medieval the Saudis banned her from the country and threatened to cancel all trade and business deals with Sweden. I wonder what they do here.
When Sweden’s foreign minister, earlier this year, denounced the flogging of a Saudi blogger as medieval the Saudis banned her from the country and threatened to cancel all trade and business deals with Sweden. I wonder what they do here.
telegraph said:
The German vice-chancellor has publicly accused Saudi Arabia of financing Islamic extremism in the West and warned that it must stop.
Sigmar Gabriel said that the Saudi regime is funding extremist mosques and communities that pose a danger to public security.
“We have to make clear to the Saudis that the time of looking away is over,” Mr Gabriel told Bild am Sonntag newspaper in an interview.
“Wahhabi mosques all over the world are financed by Saudi Arabia. Many Islamists who are a threat to public safety come from these communities in Germany.”
The allegation that Saudi Arabia has funded mosques with links to Islamist terrorism in the West is not new. But it is highly unusual for a Western leader to speak out so directly against the West’s key Arab ally.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12035838/German-vice-chancellor-accuses-Saudi-Arabia-of-funding-Islamic-extremism-in-the-West.htmlSigmar Gabriel said that the Saudi regime is funding extremist mosques and communities that pose a danger to public security.
“We have to make clear to the Saudis that the time of looking away is over,” Mr Gabriel told Bild am Sonntag newspaper in an interview.
“Wahhabi mosques all over the world are financed by Saudi Arabia. Many Islamists who are a threat to public safety come from these communities in Germany.”
The allegation that Saudi Arabia has funded mosques with links to Islamist terrorism in the West is not new. But it is highly unusual for a Western leader to speak out so directly against the West’s key Arab ally.
I don't really see consistency as any argument. We kept sanctions on relatively secular Iraq for years while doing business with much worse regimes. Including Saudi. North Korea despite their bluster are probably less of a threat to their neighbours than China.
Pragmatism is a necessary evil and part of that is picking your battles.
If we could get a concerted effort through the UN or multilaterally not to buy Saudi oil then this would be a good thing, but I don't believe we can. Short term self interest will prevail.
A few things we could do:
Stop Saudi (and other foreign) funding of Mosques, schools, Middle East studies faculties.
Stop selling them weapons.
Stop military cooperation.
Offer asylum to apostates and religious minorities fleeing Saudi persecution.
Reject outright their attempts to silence criticism of their human rights abuses in thr UN.
Look very closely at Saudi investments and investors for links with Islamist organisations and block them.
Pragmatism is a necessary evil and part of that is picking your battles.
If we could get a concerted effort through the UN or multilaterally not to buy Saudi oil then this would be a good thing, but I don't believe we can. Short term self interest will prevail.
A few things we could do:
Stop Saudi (and other foreign) funding of Mosques, schools, Middle East studies faculties.
Stop selling them weapons.
Stop military cooperation.
Offer asylum to apostates and religious minorities fleeing Saudi persecution.
Reject outright their attempts to silence criticism of their human rights abuses in thr UN.
Look very closely at Saudi investments and investors for links with Islamist organisations and block them.
ISIS really are just KSA mark 2. They are trying to do in Syria and Iraq exactly what Ibn Saud did in the early 1900s to create KSA.
They both are totally indoctrinated and controlled by the Wahhabi cult of extremist Islam.
This cult has a duty of Jihad, which means taking over the world by killing anyone who isn't a member and who is therefore apostate.
KSA use their oil billions to force Wahhabism on the world, by building mosques everywhere, by staffing them with extremist preachers, by producing and distributing propaganda, by financing terrorism and by equipping terrorists.
The EU says that KSA is the main propagator of terrorism in the world.
In the UK there are more than 1800 mosques, of these more than 100 are KSA controlled Wahhabi promoters of Jihad.
The propaganda arm of Wahhabism is called the Muslim World League, they have offices around the world, in the UK they are at 46 Goodge Street, London W1T 4LU.
In KSA they don't just behead and crucify people, they also cut off limbs and parts of limbs, they gouge out eyes and they sever spinal columns.
For women the punishment is stoning to death and is administered for adultery and other non serious "crimes".
These really are primitive tribal heathens. Their Wahhabi cult has no humanity and no joy.
We British love them. We helped Ibn Saud because he was harming the Ottoman empire. We supply them with the most technologically advanced weapons. For instance they are the only country outside the UK with Brimstone. KSA are using these weapons to conduct a war in Yemen. They are not bothered about collateral damage because they are killing Shias, who are apostate, so they indiscriminately use the full range of modern weaponry against towns and villages, killing thousands.
And don't forget that when the last KSA "king" died we flew our flags at half mast. Over Buckingham Palace, the Houses of Parliament and other official buildings.
KSA and Wahhabism are the problem. the 9/11 perpetrators were mostly Saudis, the San Bernardino killers got their inspiration from KSA and had visited it earlier this year, ISIS has received billions of dollars from KSA.
They both are totally indoctrinated and controlled by the Wahhabi cult of extremist Islam.
This cult has a duty of Jihad, which means taking over the world by killing anyone who isn't a member and who is therefore apostate.
KSA use their oil billions to force Wahhabism on the world, by building mosques everywhere, by staffing them with extremist preachers, by producing and distributing propaganda, by financing terrorism and by equipping terrorists.
The EU says that KSA is the main propagator of terrorism in the world.
In the UK there are more than 1800 mosques, of these more than 100 are KSA controlled Wahhabi promoters of Jihad.
The propaganda arm of Wahhabism is called the Muslim World League, they have offices around the world, in the UK they are at 46 Goodge Street, London W1T 4LU.
In KSA they don't just behead and crucify people, they also cut off limbs and parts of limbs, they gouge out eyes and they sever spinal columns.
For women the punishment is stoning to death and is administered for adultery and other non serious "crimes".
These really are primitive tribal heathens. Their Wahhabi cult has no humanity and no joy.
We British love them. We helped Ibn Saud because he was harming the Ottoman empire. We supply them with the most technologically advanced weapons. For instance they are the only country outside the UK with Brimstone. KSA are using these weapons to conduct a war in Yemen. They are not bothered about collateral damage because they are killing Shias, who are apostate, so they indiscriminately use the full range of modern weaponry against towns and villages, killing thousands.
And don't forget that when the last KSA "king" died we flew our flags at half mast. Over Buckingham Palace, the Houses of Parliament and other official buildings.
KSA and Wahhabism are the problem. the 9/11 perpetrators were mostly Saudis, the San Bernardino killers got their inspiration from KSA and had visited it earlier this year, ISIS has received billions of dollars from KSA.
AJS- said:
I don't really see consistency as any argument. We kept sanctions on relatively secular Iraq for years while doing business with much worse regimes. Including Saudi. North Korea despite their bluster are probably less of a threat to their neighbours than China.
Pragmatism is a necessary evil and part of that is picking your battles.
Profit before principles. And they're laughing at us because they know it.....Pragmatism is a necessary evil and part of that is picking your battles.
Countdown said:
Profit before principles. And they're laughing at us because they know it.....
I think you're right.The trouble with 'morally' cleaning up our purchases of oil and sales of weapons is that unless we 'all' do it - every non-Arab country- - it probably won't have the desired effect. Were there a concerted effort at sanctions, it might just work, but using Iran as a recent example, the evidence is not clear.
Saudi Arabia's finance ministry has posted a record budget deficit of $98bn which they have stated could be as high as $130bn with a projected deficit of $87bn for 2016. Income is 42% lower than 2014. All blamed on low brent crude prices and trying to drive US shale gas out of the market. So without high oil prices at their current level of spending it is pretty obvious they cannot live on overseas business investments alone.
Ah shame.
That economic war against ISIS funding is working.
Ah shame.
That economic war against ISIS funding is working.
FourWheelDrift said:
Saudi Arabia's finance ministry has posted a record budget deficit of $98bn which they have stated could be as high as $130bn with a projected deficit of $87bn for 2016. Income is 42% lower than 2014. All blamed on low brent crude prices and trying to drive US shale gas out of the market. So without high oil prices at their current level of spending it is pretty obvious they cannot live on overseas business investments alone.
Ah shame.
That economic war against ISIS funding is working.
Really? What happens when the House of Saud falls?Ah shame.
That economic war against ISIS funding is working.
It won't, they have to re-evaluate their spending.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35188807
But when the oil runs out, who knows.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35188807
But when the oil runs out, who knows.
FourWheelDrift said:
It won't, they have to re-evaluate their spending.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35188807
But when the oil runs out, who knows.
So what do they cut?? And what impact could those cuts have?http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35188807
But when the oil runs out, who knows.
FourWheelDrift said:
Saudi Arabia's finance ministry has posted a record budget deficit of $98bn which they have stated could be as high as $130bn with a projected deficit of $87bn for 2016. Income is 42% lower than 2014. All blamed on low brent crude prices and trying to drive US shale gas out of the market. So without high oil prices at their current level of spending it is pretty obvious they cannot live on overseas business investments alone.
Slightly O/T - the objective was never to drive US shale gas out of the market (why would you attack your main ally?). The targets were (and remain) the Russians and also the Iranians if/when they are allowed back into the oil business.Countdown said:
Slightly O/T - the objective was never to drive US shale gas out of the market (why would you attack your main ally?). The targets were (and remain) the Russians and also the Iranians if/when they are allowed back into the oil business.
Only saying what's on the news. Shale gas is not an ally, it's a business rival.BBC and other news sites running the story said:
It is the largest member of the Opec oil-producing cartel and has refused to cut output in order to raise prices in an attempt to put other producers - mainly US shale oil companies - out of business.
Saudi thinks it can withstand low oil prices for longer than US producers, many of which are small, heavily-indebted firms.
Saudi thinks it can withstand low oil prices for longer than US producers, many of which are small, heavily-indebted firms.
Should we be dealing with Indonesia ?
Screaming in agony, a woman collapses as she and a man are caned under Sharia law in Indonesia because they were seen ‘in close proximity’ of each other without being married
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3377187/Sc...
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